A new map script (MountainCoast)

[Jean Elcard]

No it wasn't fixed in 3.17 afaik. I think it has been fixed by the Better BtS AI "mod".

 

[JanusTalaiini]

@JanusTalaiini: I haven't experienced that problem. I recommend you use Civ4's default resource placement by turning "truly random resources" off, that should work.

Yup, that fixed the problem. Thanks!

 

[Bartholomew]

Hey, so I've been playing around on this map, and really really like it. As I said in a previous post, it does a great job of combining my favorite elements of Highlands, Erebus, and Pangaea mapscripts.

I know you're working on flavor starting positions (Dovielo in the tundra, etc.), and possibly an eventual cylindrical wrapping, all of which I encourage, but my BIGGEST problem right now is that some starting positions are still totally cut off from the rest of the map by glaciers or insurmountable mountains ranges. There is nothing as extreme as in previous versions (didn't play them, but saw the screenshots of a very sad Malikim civilization), but I've had several starts on the latest version where I'm marooned on a fairly LARGE but still isolated coastal shelf or glacial mountain valley in the corner of the map.

I like the idea of an isolated civilization entirely cut off from the rest of the world, but it sure does mess with, well, the game. "Well, guess I'm going for culture victory AGAIN. ...with the Clan..."

 

[lonkero173]

@Bartholomew
Are you sure about the isolation (not even a tiny diagonal valley?)? Because being isolated by mountains should be impossible in 0.9.3, I even have a backup explicitly filling all inaccessible areas with mountains should the valley adding fail for some reason. Then again now that you mention, I there might be ice blocking that path (forgot about that...) Also water is considered passable terrain. (Please check, and if you are indeed right post a screenshot)

@Grey Fox
They should have, I have never noticed evidence to the contrary. Also it is not dependent on Civ itself, the script controls this. (I don't know about the default behaviour)

As to the starting location system, it will take a few days for me to get it done.(life interferes with scripting)

 

[Grey Fox]

Please make flavorful starting positions an option, if it's not (still haven't played a game yet). I find it very imbalanced. Why should the Doviello start in tundra for example? Flavorful, but not very useful for them.

 

[Bartholomew]

Yeah, impassable glaciers/ice is what has blocked me in several times - had a start up in the corner once where my big ol' valley had one polar passage out, but was totally blocked by ice. Really, I'd rather see regular old passable ice instead of this crazy impassable super-glacier thing - doesn't exist in normal FFH, does it?

Most of my "isolated" starts have indeed had access to the sea, which is fine I suppose except that I never consider the AI to have any ability with seaborne invasions or colonization at all. So although I can get to THEM, they can't really get back at me, which I don't really like.

Still, totally dig this map. I'm gonna have another go at it right NOW.

 

[Jean Elcard]

I gave your map script a shot and I have to say I really like it. Together with Perfect World and Tectonics it could easily become one of my favourites.

One thing I have to complain about though: There is way too much tundra. A bit more desert, grass or even snow couldn't hurt.

Concerning the starting plots. I don't see any need to invent the wheel again. People can easily use FlavourMod if they want flavoured starting plots as an option. I'm even thinking about including your map script into FlavourMod directly, if you don't mind?

 

[Methuselah]

. People can easily use FlavourMod if they want flavoured starting plots as an option.

I'd rather have a script where the dwarves *aren't* messed up.

Maybe I just have bad luck, but flavourmod tends to give me a terrible start most of the time playing as Khazad. What I'm basically trying to get at is although you have a version already, it would be nice to see another person's idea of what a flavoured start should look like.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

fact is that flavourmod doesn't alter the starting locations, it just redistributes them so that they are as fitting as possible IIRC. so if there was a hilly location, someone had to take it ( it's not flavourmod's fault ) . Erebus mapscript has its own starting location choice mechanic, which does in fact tend to give some civs crappy starts ( dwarves, doviello and malakim usually ) .

 

[Deon]

Yeah, impassable glaciers/ice is what has blocked me in several times - had a start up in the corner once where my big ol' valley had one polar passage out, but was totally blocked by ice. Really, I'd rather see regular old passable ice instead of this crazy impassable super-glacier thing - doesn't exist in normal FFH, does it?

Most of my "isolated" starts have indeed had access to the sea, which is fine I suppose except that I never consider the AI to have any ability with seaborne invasions or colonization at all. So although I can get to THEM, they can't really get back at me, which I don't really like.

Still, totally dig this map. I'm gonna have another go at it right NOW.

Play on deity a bit. Once I played as Khazad and had a single-tile exit to the sea. I thought it's ok but Amelanchier launched his 20+ queen-of-the-line army and dropped there more than 40 assasins, archers, swordsmen and horse archers. Terrific...

 

[lonkero173]

@Bartholomew
I'll get that fixed sometime today, I'm getting rid of the impassable ice, and redoing the regular ice system. It currently requires a certain moisture level, which while moreless realistic, seems to produce rather poor results. I'll just split the tundra in about ½ and make the upper half regular Ice

@Jean Elcard
See the above, I'll put a bit more deserts in as well. And no, I won't mind. Check the file, its had a license since last version.
However I would suggest that you give me a day or two to get the starting positions fixed so that all locations will be moreless reasonable, since shufling them around wont really fix the current problem (not that its bad thing, but it answers a different question)

 

[Jean Elcard]

Thanks Gekko, I couldn't have formulated it any better. Your remember correctly, that FlavourMod is "only" shuffling around the starting positions provided by the underlying map script. If these provided starting positions are decent on their own already, no civilization should end up at an all too crappy starting location. Erebus ceratainly has some smaller problems in this department.

@lonkero: Thanks for the permission. I'll wait until you say the script is mature enough.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

you're welcome although, that "IIRC" was there for a reason. I remember you posted this earlier in the Flavourmod2 :

"Overall the world around the starting plots is a bit rougher with Flavour Start running, but that's a problem everybody has to handle, not only the AI. If I wouldn't disable some functions civ runs to improve starting positions, you would never see a tile of desert or mountain even near you for example. Malakim without desert wouldn't be very flavourful."

so, care to elaborate? it seems that flavourmod DOES modify the starting locations, even if it's just a little bit. it would be great to know how exactly

 

[Falc]

No, what he means is that the *standard* Civ placement functions *improve* the sites *after* choosing them as starting positions. Flavourmod does not run these functions.

 

[Jean Elcard]

@Gekko: That's propbably something for the FlavourMod thread, but I will elaborate at least a little bit. Falc is almost right, but I disabled only some of these "improve" the starting location functions. Some of them are still active and one was modified to work a little bit different. That's the list of the so called normalization functions and what I did with them:

• normalizeStartingPlotLocations - disabled (places team members near each other)
• normalizeAddRiver - enabled
• normalizeRemovePeaks - modified to 1x1 (removes all peaks in a 7x7! square of plots around each starting location)
• normalizeAddLakes - enabled
• normalizeRemoveBadFeatures - disabled
• normalizeRemoveBadTerrain - disabled
• normalizeAddFoodBonuses - enabled
• normalizeAddGoodTerrain - disabled
• normalizeAddExtras - parts enabled (adds extra features and bonuses)

Most of them have names, that should tell you, what they do in general. FlavourMod runs after these methods were applied. Any questions?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

good info. hopefully this can be helpful to lonkero137

 

[lonkero173]

Grabbing from memory:
* normalizeStartingPlotLocations - enabled (didn't know about this one..)
* normalizeAddRiver - disabled, this messes around with my river system quite badly, or at least used to...it also caused considerable headache at the early stages of scripting (WTH is that river doing there?!?)
* normalizeRemovePeaks - modified to 1x1 (removes all peaks in a 7x7! square of plots around each starting location)-enabled atm (never noticed a clear case of it doing anyting thought.
the rest are enabled (aka not defined again), seems to work ok...
I don't know whether the mod or map takes precedence when both overrider a function, if the mod does then rivers might be a bit of an issue, but apart from that nothing should cause any issues one way or the other.

I got the tundra/snow/ice fixed, but once again, I managed to get my entire weekend booked (about an hour ago), so starting position fix will come a bit later than expected. It is well under way, but I don't have the time to wrap it up before Im' busy again...

I put the fixed new (if you bother to call it that, I changed about two lines/1.5k(for this operation, there is a 100+ lines for the starting position system as well but it currently just bloat)) version in the first post

For as to when I consider this mature enough for bundling: It'll have the version number 1.0, and that will happen (unless something dramatic happens) in a week or so at most. The starting position system is an hour or so from ready, and its the last obstacle I see left. (warp will be after 1.0)

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

nice job with the new distribution of ice/desert/tundra. impassable ice blocking paths seems to be gone. peaks totally blocking out a civilization can still happen however. take a look at this magnificent Balseraph starting location...

 

[JDexter]

I've gotten around to play my first game with this script and it's really good!

Thanks and keep up the improvements!

PS: With v0.93 there still were a few rivers that ended on land, don't know if you fixed that already.

 

[JeffSteel]

Version 0.94 is the best yet! Occasionally encounter a hardly problematic, but still kinda odd issue of forests being put in deserts.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/JeffCSteel/Screenshots/deserttrees.jpg

Edit: Speaking of deserts, fresh water lakes in deserts tend to make the desert tiles surrounding it into floodplains. Makes kind of an interesting geographical "flood basin" or something if a big river is flowing into the lake. Intentional?