A place for violence

[Timsup2nothin]

Showing disgust towards Racist Dad might help make him realize he's isolated...or might provoke him. Recording the encounter might make him back down...or could provoke him. Walking away, same thing. He is likely beyond reason and cannot be dissuaded. And this being America, there's a chance he's armed, so if I choose poorly and he attacks first, I lose. So I'd definitely consider landing a very powerful first strike with a suitable object. The kid's testimony is suspect because of bias and his record, and the UCLP guy would probably back me up.

Given the similarities between this answer and my own, it is predictable that Commodore will start calling you names and quoting Batman at you.

 

[NovaKart]

With that, I guess it is time to give my answer, which is almost certain to be unpopular.

In my opinion, even though there has been no physical contact, the altercation has already started, and the aggressor is clearly identifiable. He deserves no sympathy, respect, or tolerance, from the store, the UCLP, or the bystander.

In my opinion, the corporate owned store cannot be considered reliable in any way to operate in a just manner. This is not assuming they won't, just not assuming that they will.

In my opinion, this altercation will likely subject the UCLP to consequences that could very well be devastating to his life, through no fault of his own, in addition to possible physical harm.

In my opinion, it is always prudent to assume that an aggressive person might be either armed or highly trained in personal combat skills. So in the event of an altercation aggressive people need to be put down hard, fast, and as permanently as can be gotten away with under the legal constraints of the moment.

So when grinning racist dad returns his full attention to the UCLP I would snatch a convenient weapon off a shelf and hit him in the head with it, maximum force, then wipe my prints off it, put it down, and leave the store.

What if you're like in the frozen foods section or something? Most people aren't capable of instantly finding a "weapon" in some random part of a supermarket to knock someone out with. I mean maybe you're experienced enough to knock someone out with a soup can. Most people aren't.

 

[Gori the Grey]

My question is why wipe the prints?

You could just claim you'd been in the store the day before, thought about buying the soup, decided otherwise.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

What if you're like in the frozen foods section or something? Most people aren't capable of instantly finding a "weapon" in some random part of a supermarket to knock someone out with. I mean maybe you're experienced enough to knock someone out with a soup can. Most people aren't.

My preference would be in the liquor department. Glass bottles are superior.

This does fit in though, with the very honest answers like BenitoChavez' reply. Mathematically, the odds are that some sort of extraordinary situation like this will arise, at most, once in a lifetime if you aren't actively instigating it. Which accounts for the reality that almost all bystanders, and victims, real life response consists of "I'll stand slack jawed in amazement until long after any consideration of doing something has passed."

When I was in the navy I sat for hours on end in front of a panel covered with switches and indicators that ideally were not going to move. In the event of a problem I had lists of immediate actions memorized and practiced through endless drills into reflexes...that in all but one case were acknowledged as not really necessary since if I shut down the alarm and sat on my hands the reactor's automatic efforts to protect itself would be adequate anyway. Maybe not as good as properly performing the immediate actions, but at least okay. The reality is that that panel was manned 24/7/365 just in case of one possible event that was unlikely to happen to the point of absurdity...but it actually did happen once, on my ship, no less, though it was long before I was on board.

So, it may be weird, but even as unlikely as confrontations actually are in the world, I do prepare. I can point out the nearest most effective weapon of opportunity, on a dime, pretty much everywhere I go. And a soup can, or really any other hard object, delivered somewhere behind the ear of an unsuspecting target with force, while it may not "knock them out," will take a whole lot of starch out of them. The other thing I am always prepared for is to press that advantage until my safety is assured. "Don't hit a man while he's down" is an invitation for him to get back up, and you will never surprise him a second time. If hitting him behind the ear with the soup can just stuns him a bit, I'm okay with that because I will hit him again.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

My question is why wipe the prints?

You could just claim you'd been in the store the day before, thought about buying the soup, decided otherwise.

If they get as far as showing up at the door and asking, you're toast. The guy will confirm the ID. The kid will confirm the ID. No matter how much he likes you the UCLP won't really have any choice but to confirm the ID. So leaving prints on a weapon is always a loser, no matter how simple it may seem to excuse them.

Once you are a suspect all kinds of things come into play, so the goal is to avoid being a suspect.

 

[Old Hippy]

My preference would be in the liquor department. Glass bottles are superior.

If they get as far as showing up at the door and asking, you're toast. The guy will confirm the ID. The kid will confirm the ID. No matter how much he likes you the UCLP won't really have any choice but to confirm the ID. So leaving prints on a weapon is always a loser, no matter how simple it may seem to excuse them.

Once you are a suspect all kinds of things come into play, so the goal is to avoid being a suspect.

which is why you should always use a frozen chicken as a weapon, the prints defrost before they get to take them

 

[zxcvbob]

If they get as far as showing up at the door and asking, you're toast. The guy will confirm the ID. The kid will confirm the ID. No matter how much he likes you the UCLP won't really have any choice but to confirm the ID. So leaving prints on a weapon is always a loser, no matter how simple it may seem to excuse them.

Once you are a suspect all kinds of things come into play, so the goal is to avoid being a suspect.

Best way to do that is don't start the fight in the first place. If you're certain of the righteousness of your actions, leaving fingerprints won't matter. Wiping them off is evidence that you're NOT certain.

I walk onto a room, I subconsciously look for escape routes, weapons of opportunity, etc. (look up INTP, it's what we do) I plan on *not* using them, they are Plan B. Then I don't have to think about stuff like that, but if something happens I'm already halfway ready instead of being caght totally offguard.

I've never been in a fight, and I don't intend to be. I have been sucker punched once (got a broken tooth) so I know I can take a punch. I also know I don't want to.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Best way to do that is don't start the fight in the first place.

Part of the interest in this exercise is the question "when does a fight start?" Does it start when the bystander clocks the guy? Or did it start when the guy openly declared his aggressive posture?

If you're certain of the righteousness of your actions, leaving fingerprints won't matter. Wiping them off is evidence that you're NOT certain.

Wiping them off is evidence that I don't trust the justice system to be invariably correct in their determining of justice and would rather not give them the opportunity to make any mistakes that I would suffer for. That's the same reason that I would just leave rather than "stay and tell my side of the story."

 

[Timsup2nothin]

which is why you should always use a frozen chicken as a weapon, the prints defrost before they get to take them

Too hard to grip effectively.

 

[zxcvbob]

Part of the interest in this exercise is the question "when does a fight start?" Does it start when the bystander clocks the guy? Or did it start when the guy openly declared his aggressive posture?

If the fight has already started, and that's a big if, it's between Dad and the store cop (I forgot what we're calling him. U-something.) And he doesn't need your help yet. So you started it, and everyone there including the U-guy will testify against you. If the cameras are on, they will testify against you too.

You're screwed, but you deserve to be so it's okay.

 

[jackelgull]

With that, I guess it is time to give my answer, which is almost certain to be unpopular.

In my opinion, even though there has been no physical contact, the altercation has already started, and the aggressor is clearly identifiable. He deserves no sympathy, respect, or tolerance, from the store, the UCLP, or the bystander.

In my opinion, the corporate owned store cannot be considered reliable in any way to operate in a just manner. This is not assuming they won't, just not assuming that they will.

In my opinion, this altercation will likely subject the UCLP to consequences that could very well be devastating to his life, through no fault of his own, in addition to possible physical harm.

In my opinion, it is always prudent to assume that an aggressive person might be either armed or highly trained in personal combat skills. So in the event of an altercation aggressive people need to be put down hard, fast, and as permanently as can be gotten away with under the legal constraints of the moment.

So when grinning racist dad returns his full attention to the UCLP I would snatch a convenient weapon off a shelf and hit him in the head with it, maximum force, then wipe my prints off it, put it down, and leave the store.

Here's where you and I might disagree. The fight hasn't started yet. The fight starts when hostile intent on one or both sides means that an exchange of blows is merely a formality. Right now the hostile intent is at 70 to 80%.

At this point, I'd take a projectile weapon from the aisle, take the UCLA guy's hand and make some excuse to take us both out of the situation and away from the racist douche. But I wouldn't turn my back to him. That would be stupid. I'd keep an eye on him as we retreat, and be prepared to launch the projectile in case the racist douche runs after us.

If the racist douche chooses to pursue, then hostile intent is at 100% despite my wishes, and it is time to brawl. Then I'd throw my projectile, not in hope of hitting the man, but in slowing or stopping him so when I tackle him to the ground his momentum is low as possible.

This might be overly optimistic thinking, but then again, this scenario is extremely unlikely.

 

[trader/warrior]

Part of the interest in this exercise is the question "when does a fight start?" Does it start when the bystander clocks the guy? Or did it start when the guy openly declared his aggressive posture?

Might be just my passive nature, but I would say that either way the tactically best response when I am not the immediate target of the adversary is to let him make the first move. Even more so if he has deluded himself to think I will be on his side or neutral meaning I can position myself in an advantageous way. If he is just posturing the fight might stay verbal, otherwise I can jump and restrain him or find a weapon when he is distracted with undercover guy who I assume is at least somewhat capable of handling himself.

 

[NovaKart]

If they get as far as showing up at the door and asking, you're toast. The guy will confirm the ID. The kid will confirm the ID. No matter how much he likes you the UCLP won't really have any choice but to confirm the ID. So leaving prints on a weapon is always a loser, no matter how simple it may seem to excuse them.

Once you are a suspect all kinds of things come into play, so the goal is to avoid being a suspect.

If you assault the man you're running the risk of getting caught. Are you really willing to go to jail to help out someone who is at best an acquaintance who you're friendly with?

 

[caketastydelish]

I know that Timsup2nothin not only lives in Los Angeles, but (apparently) is promoting violence.

It seems the rise of rough, tough Linkin Park music taught him well.

 

[JohannaK]

I would either remain bewildered or give the racist guy a bad look, or perhaps even tell him to copulate off. If the situation escalated, I would try to pull them apart, not call the cops because I wouldn't think of it immediately, and when the cops eventually came I'd give as truthful an account as I could make.

On the other hand this scenario is quite shocking to me, the whole situation didn't make any sense until comments clarified that UCLP is black and Racist Dad called him the N word, which I would never think possible, and that the actual solution worked out is simply even more shocking. That bystander should be facing whatever legal consequences unwarranted assault implies.

Then again, I am not American, and this reaffirms my intent to avoid America for anything other than short holidays.

 

[Akka]

Part of the interest in this exercise is the question "when does a fight start?" Does it start when the bystander clocks the guy? Or did it start when the guy openly declared his aggressive posture?

The fight, obviously, only start when someone throw a physical assault.
The confrontation or aggression, though... that's a much blurry line, which will defined very differently depending on the person.

 

[NovaKart]

It's interesting how a lot of non-Americans were confused by the racial angle. Tim didn't specifically say the father was white and the security guard was black but judging from the description that's what I assumed.

 

[jackelgull]

It's interesting how a lot of non-Americans were confused by the racial angle. Tim didn't specifically say the father was white and the security guard was black but judging from the description that's what I assumed.

He did. Tim specified the father is white and that the UCLA is black.

 

[NovaKart]

He said the university of California Los Angeles was black?

 

[Perfection]

I'm humble to the fact that I don't know what I'd to do in most potentially violent situations, and I'm hopeful that I don't need to find out.