A place for violence

[Timsup2nothin]

You'd be arrested, charged with aggravated assault, it would all be on camera so it would be easy to prosecute you.. Then you'd get sued by the guy for his medical bills and go bankrupt.

Brilliant!

Actual outcome of the situation upon which the hypothetical was based indicates otherwise, though this certainly would seem like a valid concern. I think it probably hinges on whether the bystander waits around for the cops to arrive, and the actions of the UCLP in the aftermath.

 

[BenitoChavez]

I, the bystander, should try to diffuse the situation without any violence. This seems like a good approach:

My suggestion is:

(a) Move to the side of the store detective and say to the agressive
dad with your best broad and over friendly smile.

(b) "Whoa No, Sir, We only swing with hot babes like Beyonce and Rihanna."

(c) "And Sir, if you swing at us on camera (glance sideways and smile),
you go to jail for robberyassault."

What would actually happen:

I'd be bewildered as to what was going on. The last time I encountered violence or open racism like that described in the OP was decades ago so being suddenly thrust into a situation like that would take me a minute or two to fully process what is going on. Thus I probably wouldn't be able to put together a response to diffuse the situation like the one EnglishEdward detailed above.

Also why would the dad assume that I would be on his side? I get that he's a racist and that we are both white. But do racists who are white assume all other white people are racists as well? That seems like a really dumb assumption to make since he doesn't know me at all. So the fact that he smiles at me would only add to my bewilderment.

So what would happen is I would stand back being bewildered and let the situation play out. If the situation ends without any punches thrown then great. If someone starts punching then after a few seconds of being dumbfounded I come to the defense of the UCLP guy. The dad is the clearly the aggressor here. His actions up to this point indicate he is looking for a fight while UCLP guy is doing his best to diffuse the situation.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That seems totally uncalled for at this point, and a good way to get yourself arrested for assault. Or shot by Racist Dad™, or stabbed by the kid. It might be necessary later, which is why I mentioned earlier I'd be scoping the place out for weapons, like a 20 oz can of Chunky soup.

If racist dad can pull a gun after the full force impact of your soup can you certainly should have used something else, but I do like soup cans. I also support that anyone who is put down but may not be incapacitated long enough to get out of range should be served a thorough hand stomping just in case they do have a gun, but in this situation I think counting on the UCLP guy to prevent a retaliatory shooting would be reasonable.

I think it's pretty likely that seeing dad dropped like a hot rock would incline the kid to just stay out of the way, but keeping an eye on him would certainly be prudent.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Also why would the dad assume that I would be on his side? I get that he's a racist and that we are both white. But do racists who are white assume all other white people are racists as well? That seems like a really dumb assumption to make since he doesn't know me at all. So the fact that he smiles at me would only add to my bewilderment.

I might have already said this here, and I know I recently said it somewhere...

The belief that "most white people agree but are either too politically correct or just outright scared to admit it" is surprisingly widespread among the white supremacist folk in America. "If it comes down to it they are on our side" is the core tenet that keeps them from having to acknowledge just how hopelessly outnumbered and outdated they really are.

 

[red_elk]

Coming late to this party, as the bystander I would have pulled out my phone and started recording such that the focus was on the aggressive dad. That can serve as a deterrent to violence.

That would most likely, provoke violence against yourself.

 

[warpus]

Actual outcome of the situation upon which the hypothetical was based indicates otherwise, though this certainly would seem like a valid concern. I think it probably hinges on whether the bystander waits around for the cops to arrive, and the actions of the UCLP in the aftermath.

He got lucky that his mug wasn't caught by the camera. What he did was a horrible idea because getting lucky is just that.. getting lucky. You can't rely on it.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I might have already said this here, and I know I recently said it somewhere...

The belief that "most white people agree but are either too politically correct or just outright scared to admit it" is surprisingly widespread among the white supremacist folk in America. "If it comes down to it they are on our side" is the core tenet that keeps them from having to acknowledge just how hopelessly outnumbered and outdated they really are.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. One definition of racism would be "making assumptions about other people based on their (evident) race." So, in that sense, someone who organizes his worldview by people's race is only being consistent if he presumes an unspoken bond with a stranger of his own race.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

He got lucky that his mug wasn't caught by the camera. What he did was a horrible idea because getting lucky is just that.. getting lucky. You can't rely on it.

My perspective is different, because I committed numerous felonies in full view of security cameras and said cameras had absolutely nothing to do with my eventual capture and conviction. When I eventually saw the security camera footage of my various crimes it was readily apparent that identifying me from such footage would have been challenging even for someone who knew me. The only official use any of the security footage had ever been put to was in one case it was used to identify likely places to check for fingerprints, but none were found, for a reason I will not disclose.

Such footage can be useful in court, but as far as getting someone into court it doesn't seem to matter much.

That said, I have the distinct impression that the UCLP and store manager review of the security footage was not conducted in a highly motivated manner, but can't be certain of that.

Interesting followup question there.

 

[Zelig]

My perspective is different, because I committed numerous felonies in full view of security cameras and said cameras had absolutely nothing to do with my eventual capture and conviction. When I eventually saw the security camera footage of my various crimes it was readily apparent that identifying me from such footage would have been challenging even for someone who knew me. The only official use any of the security footage had ever been put to was in one case it was used to identify likely places to check for fingerprints, but none were found, for a reason I will not disclose.

Such footage can be useful in court, but as far as getting someone into court it doesn't seem to matter much.

That said, I have the distinct impression that the UCLP and store manager review of the security footage was not conducted in a highly motivated manner, but can't be certain of that.

Interesting followup question there.

I'm likely going to be taking someone to court in the near future based on dashcam footage from my car. Would have been completely SoL in identification without the dashcam.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm likely going to be taking someone to court in the near future based on dashcam footage from my car. Would have been completely SoL in identification without the dashcam.

I didn't know your were Russian.

 

[warpus]

Interesting followup question there.

I mean, still, assaulting a person with intent to injure is not a very good idea, even if you don't think that you're going to get caught. It'll catch up with you one day.

 

[red_elk]

Another thing to consider is that a bystander and dad/kid most probably live in the same area, if they frequent this store. There is a risk they may occasionally meet later.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm likely going to be taking someone to court in the near future based on dashcam footage from my car. Would have been completely SoL in identification without the dashcam.

How were they identified from the dashcam? Just curious. In most cases I think the identification comes from the dashcam catching a license plate number, which is certainly useful. In others it provides "this is what happened" verification more than actual identification.

 

[Akka]

Soooooo...what is the appropriate action here?

I don't know what's the "appropriate" action here, but I think I'd go with a look of utter contempt and a disgusted
It's enough to convey everything you would with words, without allowing for the same amount of pretext to be used against it.

 

[Phrossack]

Showing disgust towards Racist Dad might help make him realize he's isolated...or might provoke him. Recording the encounter might make him back down...or could provoke him. Walking away, same thing. He is likely beyond reason and cannot be dissuaded. And this being America, there's a chance he's armed, so if I choose poorly and he attacks first, I lose. So I'd definitely consider landing a very powerful first strike with a suitable object. The kid's testimony is suspect because of bias and his record, and the UCLP guy would probably back me up.

 

[trader/warrior]

If I was around my local haunts I would probably try to signal to the store employees about the situation so they can decide to contact the police or other responses. If in the US I would probably sprint as fast as I can away from the place or collapse in a heap on the floor shouting "Don't shoot me! I'm an innocent Norwegian not from around here!" And if in my imagination I would stand up to the racist and he would realize that two against one with one of them being a burly viking that resistance is useless.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I'd be bewildered as to what was going on.

And I doubt that I'd have worked out my own suggestion in real time then.

 

[Commodore]

Tim thinks he's Frank Castle.

No he just thinks being a violent criminal makes him "street wise". And he thinks that society rejecting his violent, sociopathic tendencies means society is the one with the problem.

If someone tries to point out that it is, in fact, him that is the problem, he flies off the handle and will call that person a racist or badge licker instead of doing the rational thing and reexamine his life. But what more can you expect from a violent ex-con drifter that is dedicated to not making himself useful to society?

EDIT: And if the mods think I'm crossing the line with this post consider this: Tim made this thread about him and his personality traits, so I think that makes any and all criticism of him as a person fair game. If you don't agree then perhaps the thread should be closed instead of possibly infracting a single poster you feel went too far.

 

[Gori the Grey]

If someone tries to point out that it is, in fact, him that is the problem, he flies off the handle and will call that person a racist or badge licker instead of doing the rational thing and reexamine his life. But what more can you expect from a violent ex-con drifter that is dedicated to not making himself useful to society?

He livens up discussion here on CFCOT, which is a usefulness to one sub-segment of society.

Tis no sin for a man to labor in his vocation.

I proposed a non-violent approach that he deemed meritorious.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

<---snip--->

For the record, I call people "badgelicker" when they post comments that are obviously pro-cop no matter what the cops may have done, and I call people "racist" when they post openly racist nonsense. Most people seem to consider that reasonable enough...except of course badgelickers and racists.

What were you trying to prove? That deep down everyone is as ugly as you? You're alone.