A question for southerners and germans.

I believe the reference here was to the narrow capability of the southern economy. It was wholly built on King Cotton, which was built on slavery. We can see how dependent on marketing this cotton the South was in the Civil War; the Anaconda Plan absolutely strangled the South. I don't know if the Southern economy was capable of supporting the kind of industrialization the North saw, or if it was even capable of a transition away from King Cotton. If it was forced to remain with the same system, then its days would indeed be numbered.
I'm not a fan of alternate histories, so I'll ignore that aspect of the post.... but....

The south didn't just lose because of the raw #s of more Northern troops. They lost because they had no navy, they had no industrial base, they had no national vision (other than leaving the union), they had no national loyalty.

Plus early in the war before the blockade was strangling them, the South gambled and held back cotton exports hoping to force Britain and Europe to recognize their govt. This backfired because Britain simply developed other suppliers and millions of pounds of cotton rotted on southern docks. So, they missed out on millions of gold that they needed to fight the war and they hurt the long term prospect of their own native cotton industry.
 
You bring up a good point, Shane. Another subtle difference was "These United States" and "The United States".
 
It was the North that invaded the South, after all.

It was the South that attacked Fort Sumter.

Or do you call Afghanistan the war of United States' Aggression? Even though Al Qaeda attacked U.S. its somehow our fault for invading?! :lol:
 
It was the South that attacked Fort Sumter.

Or do you call Afghanistan the war of United States' Aggression? Even though Al Qaeda attacked U.S. its somehow our fault for invading?! :lol:

The South freed occupied territory held by a foreign power within its own borders. You're forgetting that whole secession thing.
 
The South freed occupied territory held by a foreign power within its own borders. You're forgetting that whole secession thing.

Occupied territory? Treason isn't legal and is a capital offense!
 
Oh lord... godwynn... read the rest of the thread before we go down a redundant path.

Yeah, I'm scatterbrained today.

P.S. Sides, I love talking to VRWC and IrishCaesar about this. I would do that avatar switch thing only if one of them took mine.
 
You know .Shane., I am in college now, and every class this has come up, (about 2/3's) ever prof (black and white) says pretty much the CW wasn't about slavery, but slavery was used to push the issue.

Much like how pearl harbor forced the issue of the US going in to WWII, but the US would of been to war anyways in a few more months, if not pearl harbor, then something else. FDR was pretty much making sure of that.

Do you have something i could look up that shows the judgment of most Historians says other wise.
 
You know .Shane., I am in college now, and every class this has come up, (about 2/3's) ever prof (black and white) says pretty much the CW wasn't about slavery, but slavery was used to push the issue.
See, here's the thing. I'm not sure if you're teachers aren't making the connection or what... but...

Typically the non-slavery argument goes that this is about <insert argument here>. Usually the argument is states rights, tariff, or culture. The problem is that all these other potential issues lead directly back to slavery.

For example. Take the tariff issue. First off, its a bit of a straw man because the tariffs in the late 1850s were the lowest they'd been in ~50 years. Probably the Republicans would've raised them, this is true. But they wouldn't have been something devastating, rather a mild, reasonable increase. I know, I know WTH does this have to do w/ slavery?

Answer: Why do southerners abhor the high tariffs? First off high tariffs are to help native manufacturing. The south had almost no native manufacturing capacity. Why? Because of the success and dominance of the planter-based economy (cotton was king). This had cultural implications as well. So, rather than develop a diversified economy (this might surprise you but southern agriculture was not nearly as self-sufficient as the north), the plantation aristocracy that controlled southern life, state politics and the southern input to national politics eschewed economic development.

Additionally, Europe would place tariffs on our exports (of which cotton was king) which did not go over well in Dixie.

Lastly southern tastes ran to the imported. Thus, import duties on imported French or English luxury goods also didn't sit well.

So Southern dependence on cotton = dependence on slavery... see, no matter how you slice it, the roots of all the potential issues/causes of the war come back to slavery.

Plus, there's the whole area of the events of the 1850s leading up to the war. Every significant polarizing national issue of that decade revolved around slavery. Preston Brooks didn't nearly kill Sumner on the floor of the Senate because of his views on tariffs. Americans didn't kill each other by the dozens in "Bleeding Kansas" over the issue of states rights.

Much like how pearl harbor forced the issue of the US going in to WWII, but the US would of been to war anyways in a few more months, if not pearl harbor, then something else. FDR was pretty much making sure of that.
Just an fyi, that's a very poor comparison. They don't really match at all. A more accurate comparison would be that the attack of the South on Ft. Sumter forced the North into the CW.

Do you have something i could look up that shows the judgment of most Historians says other wise.
I base this on the fact that the predominance of the primary CW historians share this view, albeit in varying degrees of directness. Among these would be James McPherson, Eric Foner, Stephen Oates, Kenneth Stampp, Alan Nevins...

ROFL, you're gonna make him pay, aren't you? :)
 
I live in the South but im glad that the South lost. I understand their were many issues in the Civil War, but i don't support slavery and if the South won, there STILL might be slavery in the south (unlikely IMO, but still possible).
 
:goodjob: Of course, that cuts both ways. I'll be burdened with the avatar of a man (General Sherman) who, while I can admire his military abilities, would be guilty of henious war crimes if judged by modern standards.
And you wouldn't say the same of Forrest? ;)
 
I severely doubt there would be slavery for another 40 years in the CSA, 150 is unthinkable. The amount of international pressure would have been to large, not to mention the economy would have had to evolve as the North's did and that means a supplanting of the cotton-slave based economy with a more industrial one.

I just think the whole structure of the CSA was doomed to fail, as someone said before...thier whole country was founded on STATES rights and seceeding whenever you had a disagreement. What would have stopped Texas, or Florida, or Kentucky from seceeding when the CSA ran into some rough patches in the first few decades?

I love the whole gray thing though, very stylish.
 
Yeah, that was intentional. I almost put Lee up there, but decided Forrest was a better match.

By the way, I've not seen anyone mention that the South is actually responsible for ending slavery. Had they not seceded, it would have been a long, long time before the number of States needed to defeat a unified south to pass an amendment banning slavery would be in the Union
 
By the way, I've not seen anyone mention that the South is actually responsible for ending slavery.

The North was more directly responsible. Had the South had it their way it would have still been in place.
 
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