Hey you, You got your answer. Me and my family are ordinary people from all sectors of Yugoslavia. Now why did you assume that my name was Tito? Or are you just one of those people who simply will not acknowledge anything good about socialism/communism.
A question to Communists:
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Hey you, You got your answer. Me and my family are ordinary people from all sectors of Yugoslavia. Now why did you assume that my name was Tito? Or are you just one of those people who simply will not acknowledge anything good about socialism/communism.
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Not when you compare it to Sweden. Maybe if you compared it to Burkina Faso, Pakistan, or Cambodia or something.
Communism and socialism are easy answers to understand problems of poverty for uninformed minds on basic economics but history shows it doesnt work out.
Thomas Sowell gives many good examples in his book why this is.
Basic Economics: A Citizen's Guide to the Economy
Thomas Sowell gives many good examples in his book why this is.
Basic Economics: A Citizen's Guide to the Economy
this discussion is on a very low level anyways (people taking the ecomic data of 1990 ussr to determine wether communism is good or bad really shows a high level of sophistication to the topic), but please explain why people in the ussr were worth nothing...
I didn't say that they were worth nothing. The engineers who sat around and played cards were worth nothing to the power plant. They're a drain on the resources because they get paid to do nothing. They're getting paid to have fun themselves. That's clearly a labor force not operating at the equilibrium point and is thus not at the socially optimum amount.
Right. So you don't belive me despite having a first hand experience while you have none? Great
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
No
I want to abandon Communism in favor of Capitalism nowRandom side note: I am currently working a no-skills job at a below average salary. Yet here I am speaking out AGAINST Communism and FOR capitalism. I figured you'd all find that kind of ironic.
. I am just blinded by selfishness that I rejected Capitalism.
Princeps
More bombs than God
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What I think you're reffering to is the pricing system basically. You know what? Capitalist system also doesn't know the exact prices of products either, because traders do not have the fantastic knowladge required to exactly determine the prices of a diverse selection of products in relation to the demands of the market, competition, inflation, and so forth, and a centralized totalitarian systems always suffer from misinformation at the top, on almost all issues, so they too, cannot determine prices correctly. Thus, the current system we have is a combination of central and induvidual management, in fact we've implemented one of the essential institutions of communism, the central bank.
In the end, the problem wasn't that stalinist communism didn't follow "basic economics", but the real problem was an old one: totalitarian system suffer from lack of knowladge at the top (that, including several other problems), while a combination of the centralized-decentralized systems can manage the interdependant and complex society more effectively than massive top-heavy institutions.
Wob Shop
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Word. The state-planned economy alienates itself from the people. Many people, myself included, refer to the USSR's system as "state capitalism" on account of it being a system where ownership was in the hands of one inaccessible and undemocratic state rather than many inacessible and undemocratic capitalists. Main point is that neither were systems where the people ran their own factories from the bottom up without hierarchies.
So- I think if you wish to be a glorious anti-communist detractor and fight for the priveledges of a socioeconomic class that doesn't even give a damn about you, please don't keep making references to North Korea, Cuba, China, and the USSR. They were no more communist than America is a democracy.
So why the hell do you call the USSR communist. Especialy Stalin.
It wasn't communist. It's government was not democraticly elected through the grassroots (People -> Comunes -> Soviets -> Supreme Soviet)
Instead it was Stalin -> Supreme Soviet -> Soviets -> Comunes -> People.
It's economy was not "socialialized" and the peopel had little influence over what was produced though in some instances they could demand what was to be produced and in turn that could be produced.
Stalin was like a tzar living in his palace.
People who opposed him were imprisoned or shot. Both Lenin and Trotsky opposed him
He was paranoid to the degree that he fired Zhukov from the army (or was it downgraded him). Someone whom he had let lead the entire army to victory in the first place.
The Paris Commune, the Bavarian republic and the Hungarian Soviet are examples of true shortlived communist states. All fell because of white armies who basicly entered the republics and killed the revolutionaries. The Crete civilization is also considered one of the first communist states by historians.
Rosa Luxemburg is my role model if anyone is curious.
It wasn't communist. It's government was not democraticly elected through the grassroots (People -> Comunes -> Soviets -> Supreme Soviet)
Instead it was Stalin -> Supreme Soviet -> Soviets -> Comunes -> People.
It's economy was not "socialialized" and the peopel had little influence over what was produced though in some instances they could demand what was to be produced and in turn that could be produced.
Stalin was like a tzar living in his palace.
People who opposed him were imprisoned or shot. Both Lenin and Trotsky opposed him
He was paranoid to the degree that he fired Zhukov from the army (or was it downgraded him). Someone whom he had let lead the entire army to victory in the first place.
The Paris Commune, the Bavarian republic and the Hungarian Soviet are examples of true shortlived communist states. All fell because of white armies who basicly entered the republics and killed the revolutionaries. The Crete civilization is also considered one of the first communist states by historians.
Rosa Luxemburg is my role model if anyone is curious.
Princeps
More bombs than God
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I completely agree with you. I also would call the soviet system "state (totalitarian) capitalism", however it would probably cause some confusion. The Soviet system wasn't anymore socialist than a corporation is socialist, totalitarianism cannot be socialist.
Communism is not anarchy.
The commune enforces the law.
Enforcement of the law will not be needed in a utopia tho.
But as communism in my oppinion always will just strive closer to an utopia there will simply be less and less need to enforce laws.
Even today we can acknowledge that communist countries have and have had the lowest crime rate in the world. There almost was no(little) crime in Yugoslavia, no rapes, very few murders. The punishments for such crimes were the same as anywhere ellse, yet nobody comited them. Communism abolishes the need for crime which is one of its finest perks.
Ofcourse crime comited out of jelousy or hate can never be abolished but that's not for the state to do. That would mean for the state to invade your privacy.
The commune enforces the law.
Enforcement of the law will not be needed in a utopia tho.
But as communism in my oppinion always will just strive closer to an utopia there will simply be less and less need to enforce laws.
Even today we can acknowledge that communist countries have and have had the lowest crime rate in the world. There almost was no(little) crime in Yugoslavia, no rapes, very few murders. The punishments for such crimes were the same as anywhere ellse, yet nobody comited them. Communism abolishes the need for crime which is one of its finest perks.
Ofcourse crime comited out of jelousy or hate can never be abolished but that's not for the state to do. That would mean for the state to invade your privacy.
Wob Shop
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There aren't laws in the traditional sense, there are just ethical ideals ("customs," Kropotkin called them) that people will work out together via a vigourous directly democratic process. Things we can all agree on like not being authoritarians (by killing or raping or exploiting or coercing one another.)
Think for second- is what stops you from doing ill the law, or a sense that it isn't right in a deeper sense? We would try to foster an understanding of why people should be kind to one another as opposed to mere slavish obediance to laws enacted from on high.
If someone is an authoritarian in an anarchist society we can resist their authority. If someoen exploits others we can stop working for them. If someone assaults another person we can defend ourselves- but in order to remain as non-coercive as possible we would not enact revenge or punishment and would instead try to get the person the help they would be denied under this society.
Here is the delightful Oscar Wilde:
Think for second- is what stops you from doing ill the law, or a sense that it isn't right in a deeper sense? We would try to foster an understanding of why people should be kind to one another as opposed to mere slavish obediance to laws enacted from on high.
If someone is an authoritarian in an anarchist society we can resist their authority. If someoen exploits others we can stop working for them. If someone assaults another person we can defend ourselves- but in order to remain as non-coercive as possible we would not enact revenge or punishment and would instead try to get the person the help they would be denied under this society.
Here is the delightful Oscar Wilde:
yea but wob shop is an anarchist.
plus a)there never will be a utopia
b) the soviet union was never close to a utopia
c) there was little crime because everybody was dying in a forced labor camp or being tortured by the secret police or something like that.
so are you saying stalin never used forced labor? or that there was no secret police in the soviet union.
lol you owe wobsop a reward.
Gays aren't petty criminals. They are evil people who disturb the catholic teachings that those even more evil people (communists) are supposed to hate.
I know about Gay people thing in Cuba. It's . .. .. .. .ed up.
And why the hell do right wingers have to say "So you're saying they NEVER?" when you say something. Hell no. Stalin sent people to concentration camps and killed thoulsands of people. I hate Stalin, that has been established earlier in this thread.
I asked you about Cuba. I know about Yugoslavia.
Here's US.gov on China: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1089.html
Crime is low. Stop twisting everything I say. Crime has increase massively in Russia from the time of Gorbatchev to Jeltsin and now Putin.
Still the crime rate in Russia is 8 times lower than in the USA. "Russia has almost twice as many judges and magistrates as the United States. Meanwhile, the United States has 8 times as much crime." Despite the lack of death penalty in Russia compared to the extent in the US.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/rs-russia/cri-crime
I know about Gay people thing in Cuba. It's . .. .. .. .ed up.
And why the hell do right wingers have to say "So you're saying they NEVER?" when you say something. Hell no. Stalin sent people to concentration camps and killed thoulsands of people. I hate Stalin, that has been established earlier in this thread.
I asked you about Cuba. I know about Yugoslavia.
Here's US.gov on China: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1089.html
Crime is low. Stop twisting everything I say. Crime has increase massively in Russia from the time of Gorbatchev to Jeltsin and now Putin.
Still the crime rate in Russia is 8 times lower than in the USA. "Russia has almost twice as many judges and magistrates as the United States. Meanwhile, the United States has 8 times as much crime." Despite the lack of death penalty in Russia compared to the extent in the US.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/rs-russia/cri-crime
There were many good things in communism...Had you ever wonder why in eastern europe countries is still support for communism? Many people want have these times back of sureness job and home. And no, they dont want dictatorship, Stalin or something like that. They only think that communism should work in better way, as communists like Dubček believed in 1968.
Honestly, I dont believe in it. Sadly I think that every attempt to make justice in society will have same process like in Animal farm from Orwell.
But I am surprised that nobody here is not little scared how much power some corporations have. Their lobbyists and interests are not influencing only laws around economy but also many aspects elsewhere.
Honestly, I dont believe in it. Sadly I think that every attempt to make justice in society will have same process like in Animal farm from Orwell.
But I am surprised that nobody here is not little scared how much power some corporations have. Their lobbyists and interests are not influencing only laws around economy but also many aspects elsewhere.
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