A Way to keep Algeria?

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Algerian pirates attacked French shipping in the Mediterranean. The French had to respond to these provocations, and rightly so, to protect their citizens from Algerian corsair attacks.

But France acquired Algeria for reasons wholly unrelated to piracy. Basically, the Dey had lent Napoleon a whole mess of money for his wars, and that debt passed on to the Restoration government. The Dey demanded the money be repaid, and was generally a dick to the French envoy, so the French threw a hissy fit over spilt wine and invaded the place.

The Algerians forfeited any rights to their lands when they used violence against civilians. In any case, they're Arabs and they should be removed to the other Arab countries.

Like the French forfeited their right to Algerian land when they killed Algerian civilians?

 

[Gladi]

Bright day
Well, I learned that French were winning in Algeria, they were killing more separatists then sepratists were killing French and France is large and rich enough to stay in war with Arabs indefinetely. So if the French military coup went to somebody else but DeGaulle, France could have kept Algeria or parts of it.

 

[Verbose]

Bright day
Well, I learned that French were winning in Algeria, they were killing more separatists then sepratists were killing French and France is large and rich enough to stay in war with Arabs indefinetely. So if the French military coup went to somebody else but DeGaulle, France could have kept Algeria or parts of it.

I gather what you mean to say is, if prez René Coty had appointed some never-say-die-on-Algeria general to succeed Pierre Pfimlin as prime minister, and not de Gaulle, it could have set up a situation where France might have stuck to trying to indefinitely retain Algeria at gun-point, never mind how untenable the costs to France.

 

[Tee Kay]

But France acquired Algeria for reasons wholly unrelated to piracy. Basically, the Dey had lent Napoleon a whole mess of money for his wars, and that debt passed on to the Restoration government. The Dey demanded the money be repaid, and was generally a dick to the French envoy, so the French threw a hissy fit over spilt wine and invaded the place.

It was a pre-emptive strike.

Like the French forfeited their right to Algerian land when they killed Algerian civilians?

Collateral damage. A Western democracy never deliberately target civilians, unlike the Arabs. Besides, your typical Algerian fully symphatizes with the terrorists.

 

[Agent327]

Bright day
Well, I learned that French were winning in Algeria, they were killing more separatists then sepratists were killing French and France is large and rich enough to stay in war with Arabs indefinetely. So if the French military coup went to somebody else but DeGaulle, France could have kept Algeria or parts of it.

That's not very likely: the key issue wasn't military, but rather that the war wasn't that all that popular in France itself, being supported by certain (not all) military and their supporters in Algeria and at home. In the end it was a matter of when, not if Algeria would be decolonized.

 

[nonconformist]

FWIW, yes.

The Algerian Problem did not start as a war or revolution or such originally; most Algerians had, inititally felt quite an attachment to France, and many fought during the war as volunteers.

Algeria was a French dependency, but without full rights given to those in L'Hexagone. The Algerians originally wanted full integration into France as a Department, with equal rights to the French wrt voting etc.
This was never given, and in the end revolution was the only way.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

It was a pre-emptive strike.

But the French are against pre-emptive strikes.

Collateral damage. A Western democracy never deliberately target civilians, unlike the Arabs. Besides, your typical Algerian fully symphatizes with the terrorists.

I love this thread.

 

[Gladi]

I gather what you mean to say is, if prez René Coty had appointed some never-say-die-on-Algeria general to succeed Pierre Pfimlin as prime minister, and not de Gaulle, it could have set up a situation where France might have stuck to trying to indefinitely retain Algeria at gun-point, never mind how untenable the costs to France.

I never claimed that my posts are not confusing. But, yes, that is it. But to add I do think that in the end Algeria could be pacified. But the other Arab countries would go on hating France.

 

[Verbose]

I never claimed that my posts are not confusing. But, yes, that is it. But to add I do think that in the end Algeria could be pacified. But the other Arab countries would go on hating France.

Perhaps, but at what cost to France? That was what de Gaulle realised, going on national television to explain to the French public that colonies were like steam trains and sailing ships; stuff one might find pretty and attach a sentimental value to, but really not worth the trouble in the modern world.

 

[Tee Kay]

I never claimed that my posts are not confusing. But, yes, that is it. But to add I do think that in the end Algeria could be pacified. But the other Arab countries would go on hating France.

And? Would that matter? The Arabs wanted to drive the French into the sea. You can't get lower than -200 relations.

 

[Karalysia]

Besides the Arabs were weak France could totally beat them in any war.

 

[Agent327]

As we have seen in Algeria...

 

[Tee Kay]

As we have seen in Algeria...

If France was serious and didn't care about civilian casualties the Arab towns would just be smoking craters.

But no, the Isr... French tried to avoid civilian casualties. HA... FLN thanked them by using terror tactics.

 

[Karalysia]

FLN definatley uses human shields which is why France restrained itself. France could have re-conquered all of North Africa if it really wanted to.

 

[Agent327]

Actually, it did: before the decolonization era. Anyway, the French military in Algeria weren't particulary renowned for their 'restraint'- on the contrary. (Also, the military coup that put De Gaulle in charge originated from French Algeria's military.) Realistically, there was no way for France to hold on to Algeria, nor did it want to. As said, De Gaulle full well realized this and took the only sensible course. The issue wasn't military, but political - as the US would later learn in Vietnam; but that is another matter.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Besides the Arabs were weak France could totally beat them in any war.

This is the French we're talking about.

 

[Verbose]

This is the French we're talking about.

You're not.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

This is the French we're talking about.

You realize that one of the reasons for keeping Algeria was that it was where France had conducted its atomic weapons tests, right? Tests that had yielded to real weapons programs by this time period.

 

[Lord Baal]

This is the French we're talking about.

Dude, even teh Jooz defeated the Arabs. Surely the French can. This isn't the pansy Petain French, it's the uber-tough De Gaulle French.

Words cannot express how much taillesskangaru has pwned this thread.

 

[Joecoolyo]

You realize that one of the reasons for keeping Algeria was that it was where France had conducted its atomic weapons tests, right? Tests that had yielded to real weapons programs by this time period.

Well they should have been more American about it and realized that there are many tiny islands in the Pacific that could exploited for that very use.

Dude, even teh Jooz defeated the Arabs. Surely the French can. This isn't the pansy Petain French, it's the uber-tough De Gaulle French.

The only tough Frenchman was Napoleon, and he lost!!1!