I don't see why they had to choose a modern monster like Mao when there were so many impressive emperors to choose from. Chinese imperial history spanned 3000 years. What about (I think) Qianlong of the Qing dynasty (the one who has the portrait of him in the yellow dragon robe) or the one in the Tang dynasty who was obssessed by Yang Gui Fei (Xuanzong I think). The Tang dynasty was China's cultural golden age in terms of poetry, music and painting.
About China
- Thread starter 秦始皇
- Start date
The End Is Nigh
Repent!!!
wenxue said:
Tell that to the government of the People's Republic. I doubt they would prefer someone else.
weimingshi
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2004
- Messages
- 420
The End Is Nigh said:Tell that to the government of the People's Republic. I doubt they would prefer someone else.
Actually, people's republic would prefer someone else. They wouldn't admit it, but the way they run the governement today goes completely against mao's ideology. The only reason why today's government still trying to defend mao is because if they admit mao is wrong, that would be a huge slap in the face for communist party, lets just say the current government don't want to loose the face. Just looked at liu shaoqi, he was prosecuted as an enemy to the people of china when mao was alive, immediately after mao died, They redeemed liu and gave him a dignified funeral.
Qianlong may not have been Chinese but he ruled China. Alexander and the Khans (Genghis and Khublai) ruled over territories that they were not natives of and they are included as Civ leaders. The Qing dynasty were Manchurian but they still ruled China - until it all fell horribly apart but that is a very long story indeed........
Dida
YHWH
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2003
- Messages
- 3,434
wenxue said:
Genkhis Khans ruled over territories from China to Russia. But he is still made the leader of Mongolia only. It will be odd to make Khan the ruler of Russia, because he was not a Russian.
The same logic applies to Qian Long. He might have ruled China, but that doesn't make him a Chinese. By Chinese, I meant the Han majority, which makes up about 96% of the population of China.
China has seen tons of wise rulers, Qian Long isn't too highly regarded even if he was a Chinese.
You hate Mao because your mother tell you to hate him? How old are you?
Because Mao fouce her to work in the field so she is not a good student any more? Why Mao need to guarantee that she should be a good student? What's the IQ for her?
She waked up at 6AM and keep working till 6PM, no Breakfast, no Lunch, no Dinner and work 12 hours every day. Suppergirl!!!
Have you ever been to China?
Tell you a good place - The Memorial of Mao, just in the south side of Tian An Men Square in Beijing. You can see average ten thousand people visit there everyday, they line up at the entrance for miles on the birthday and decease day of Mao. 143 Million people have visited there since Sept.9th, 1977.
Chinese people love Mao. All my friends and their parents love Mao no matter they are living in China or oversea.
As you said, the great leap forward happened in 58-60 and it was Liu ShaoQi who was the deputy chairman of communist party after the civil war then unfortunately mao managed to come back in power in 1960. Why blame Mao for that? Remember, it's communist party ruling not Mao. All the decisions are made by group not just Mao.
Mao is respected by the communist part because he lead successful war against Japanese before 1945, KMT before 1949 and in Korea before 1955. He reunite China and established the Heavy Industry. (The First and Second 5 Year Projects)
The 90% Chinese - peasants love him. The 9% City Civs love him. All the other democracy party love him. The Left Wing KMT Party lead by Son QinLin (wife of Sun Yat Sen) stay in China mainland after 1949 and didn't want to flee to Taiwan island.
After 1949, the Red China is banned by westen countries and the Soviet Union still want to keep the privilege in northern China even garrison in Da Lian and Lu Shun City.
China is so weak during that time. No Industry, all bombed by Japanese and KMT Flee Army, 90% peasants no Education.
Who lead China stand up? Who lead the Atom-bomb project and keep China safe for the rest 50 years? Who lead the Heavy Industry project in China?
It's Chinese People elect Mao to replace KMT and Mao said he is son of Chinese People.
Freedom? Like the freedom those Americans give to Iraq?
Washington give freedom? Do you know how many slaves he kept after he retired?
Keep talking your lies here. It's funny right?
How old are you?Because Mao fouce her to work in the field so she is not a good student any more?
Why Mao need to guarantee that she should be a good student? What's the IQ for her?She waked up at 6AM and keep working till 6PM, no Breakfast, no Lunch, no Dinner and work 12 hours every day.
Suppergirl!!! Have you ever been to China?
Tell you a good place - The Memorial of Mao, just in the south side of Tian An Men Square in Beijing. You can see average ten thousand people visit there everyday, they line up at the entrance for miles on the birthday and decease day of Mao. 143 Million people have visited there since Sept.9th, 1977. Chinese people love Mao. All my friends and their parents love Mao no matter they are living in China or oversea.
As you said, the great leap forward happened in 58-60 and it was Liu ShaoQi who was the deputy chairman of communist party after the civil war then unfortunately mao managed to come back in power in 1960.
Why blame Mao for that? Remember, it's communist party ruling not Mao. All the decisions are made by group not just Mao. Mao is respected by the communist part because he lead successful war against Japanese before 1945, KMT before 1949 and in Korea before 1955. He reunite China and established the Heavy Industry. (The First and Second 5 Year Projects)
The 90% Chinese - peasants love him. The 9% City Civs love him. All the other democracy party love him. The Left Wing KMT Party lead by Son QinLin (wife of Sun Yat Sen) stay in China mainland after 1949 and didn't want to flee to Taiwan island.
After 1949, the Red China is banned by westen countries and the Soviet Union still want to keep the privilege in northern China even garrison in Da Lian and Lu Shun City.
China is so weak during that time. No Industry, all bombed by Japanese and KMT Flee Army, 90% peasants no Education.
Who lead China stand up? Who lead the Atom-bomb project and keep China safe for the rest 50 years? Who lead the Heavy Industry project in China?
It's Chinese People elect Mao to replace KMT and Mao said he is son of Chinese People.
Freedom? Like the freedom those Americans give to Iraq?
Washington give freedom? Do you know how many slaves he kept after he retired?
Keep talking your lies here. It's funny right?
SuperSloth
Warlord
i agree that sun yat sen would be a better candidate than mao, even though he was never a true national leader in the sense. but his contributions were vastly greater than that of mao's. he gave power back to the chinese people and mao squandered it. remember not only did mao kill millions but he destroyed thousands of years of chinese history as well. and the only reason the commies won the war was because the KMT was weakened from the war against the japanese. it was the KMT that bore the brunt of the japanese invasion. today's china has nothing to do with mao doing. as a matter of fact, its amazing that the country has recovered at all.
everyone knows washington kept slaves, as did many other past american leaders, but that was a different time and cannot be held to today's standards. but i dont know what this has to do with the topic anyways.
southafrica
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2005
- Messages
- 233
laconic said:You hate Mao because your mother tell you to hate him?
Because Mao fouce her to work in the field so she is not a good student any more?
She waked up at 6AM and keep working till 6PM, no Breakfast, no Lunch, no Dinner and work 12 hours every day.
Have you ever been to China?
Chinese people love Mao. All my friends and their parents love Mao no matter they are living in China or oversea.
As you said, the great leap forward happened in 58-60 and it was Liu ShaoQi who was the deputy chairman of communist party after the civil war then unfortunately mao managed to come back in power in 1960.
Mao is respected by the communist part because he lead successful war against Japanese before 1945, KMT before 1949 and in Korea before 1955. He reunite China and established the Heavy Industry. (The First and Second 5 Year Projects)
The 90% Chinese - peasants love him. The 9% City Civs love him. All the other democracy party love him. The Left Wing KMT Party lead by Son QinLin (wife of Sun Yat Sen) stay in China mainland after 1949 and didn't want to flee to Taiwan island.
After 1949, the Red China is banned by westen countries and the Soviet Union still want to keep the privilege in northern China even garrison in Da Lian and Lu Shun City.
China is so weak during that time. No Industry, all bombed by Japanese and KMT Flee Army, 90% peasants no Education.
Who lead China stand up? Who lead the Atom-bomb project and keep China safe for the rest 50 years? Who lead the Heavy Industry project in China?
It's Chinese People elect Mao not KMT and Mao said he is son of Chinese People.
Freedom? Like the freedom those Americans give to Iraq?
Washington give freedom? Do you know how many slaves he kept after he retired?
Keep talking your lies here. It's funny right?
Although your post is rather absurb, I thought you would like to read this... oh and since lenin's corpse is still on display in russia does that mean he is loved by millions?
"Washington owned slaves throughout his adult life, as did most of his peers in the Virginia plantation aristocracy. He was noteworthy, however, for the humane treatment of his slaves and for his growing unease with the "peculiar institution". Historian Roger Bruns has written, "As he grew older, he became increasingly aware that it was immoral and unjust. Long before the Revolution, Washington had taken the unusual position of refusing to sell any of his slaves or to allow slave families to be separated." After the Revolution, Washington told an English friend, "I clearly foresee that nothing but the rooting out of slavery can perpetuate the existence of our [Federal] union by consolidating it on a common bond of principle." He wrote to his friend John Francis Mercer in 1786, "I never mean... to possess another slave by purchase; it being among my first wishes to see some plan adopted, by which slavery in this country may be abolished by slow, sure, and imperceptible degrees." Ten years later, he wrote to Robert Morris, "There is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see some plan adopted for the gradual abolition [of slavery]."
As President, Washington was mindful of the risk of splitting apart the young republic over the question of slavery. He did not advocate the abolition of slavery while in office, but did sign legislation enforcing the prohibition of slavery in the Northwest Territory, writing to his good friend the Marquis de la Fayette that he considered it a wise measure. Lafayette urged him to free his slaves as an example to others Washington was held in such high regard after the revolution that there was reason to hope that if he freed his slaves, others would follow his example. Lafayette purchased an estate in French Guiana and settled his own slaves there, and he offered a place for Washington's slaves, writing "I would never have drawn my sword in the cause of America if I could have conceived thereby that I was founding a land of slavery." Nevertheless, Washington did not free his own slaves in his lifetime.
Washington included provisions in his will which freed his slaves upon his death. His widow Martha freed those she owned shortly before she died.
As cited in Henry Weincek's Imperfect God: George Washington, His Slaves, and the Creation of America, one of his slaves, Ona Judge Staines, escaped the Executive Mansion in Philadelphia in 1796 and lived the rest of her life free in New Hampshire."
-Wiki
The Dixie Mission: Washington's first tie to China's future communist leaders
I stared in astonishment at its 10,000 caves on my first visit in 1945 to the isolated Chinese communist capital of Yan'an, next to the Gobi Desert. My wonder grew as I spotted the Stars and Stripes fluttering from a flagpole of the U.S. Army Observer Group.
Popularly known as the Dixie Mission, this small encampment of officers and enlisted men is now almost forgotten. But in its four years of existence it set a historic record. It was the first official American organization to establish contact with Communist Party Chairman Mao Zedong and his battle-scarred comrades 28 years before Richard Nixon's famous visit to Beijing in 1972.
Sixty years after it was installed in Yan'an, a dusty city near the Great Wall of China in the northern province of Sha'anxi, historians and diplomats debate whether it was a success or a failure.
Its wartime instructions to rescue downed American fliers were successful: More than 100 were saved. But some critics thought its diplomats and "red experts," rather than military men, should have stayed on to take advantage of its unique contacts with Mao and his followers. Others believed it would be a waste of time.
The mission wound up in 1947, and two years later Mao's army swept south to drive out the Nationalist regime of Chiang Kai-shek and complete China's communist revolution.
Despite the rocky history of U.S.-Chinese relations that followed, the Chinese government looks back on the Dixie Mission period with evident nostalgia. In 1978 and 1991, it invited the mission's survivors and their families to Yan'an to relive their memories. It did so again last week with banquets and receptions in Beijing.
I got to Yan'an in November 1945 and stayed for seven months to report on the communist side of negotiations with the nationalists mediated by Gen. George C. Marshall, President Harry Truman's emissary. The Associated Press was the only foreign news organization to stay in Yan'an.
The Chinese had dug their caves in 1938 to house hospitals, universities, newspapers and training schools after Japanese air raids reduced the walled city to rubble. The Dixie Mission dug its own caves on arrival in 1944.
I occupied one of them, a dwelling like none I had ever known -- 8 feet by 10 -- light filtering in softly through glassless, paper-covered windows. The only bits of furniture were a table on which I installed my portable typewriter, a wooden chair, a wash basin and a bed -- planks set on saw horses.
Though the mattress was paper thin and the sand-stuffed pillow was rock-hard, I slept better than ever before in the 2,000-foot altitude and dry desert air.
The nearest toilet was 30 yards away and a single charcoal brazier failed to dispel the chill winter winds. But I quickly learned to live with the cold after charcoal fumes knocked me out and I had to be revived with oxygen. The effects of the mission's lard-laden food lasted longer -- I had acidosis that lasted for months.
Members of the mission and I dressed in padded clothes and showered in the makeshift bath house once a week, whether we needed it or not. But compared to the communists, reduced by the nationalist blockade to one patched and faded suit a year, we were squeaky clean.
The Cold War to come was already claiming political victims. The mission chief, Col. Ivan D. Yeaton, a ramrod-straight New Englander and starchy conservative, told me he was banished to Yan'an because as an assistant military attache in Moscow, he questioned the need for large amounts of American aid to the wartime Soviet Union. His liberal-thinking predecessor as Dixie Mission chief, Col. Dave Barrett, antagonized the conservative U.S. ambassador, Patrick J. Hurley, and paid for it by failing to get his general's star. Diplomats Jack Service and John Davies, who predicted Mao would triumph, were ignored by the State Department and pilloried in the 1950s by Sen. Joe McCarthy.
Craggy-faced George Marshall's name would later become almost synonymous with the reconstruction of post-World War II Europe. In China, he appeared successful in persuading the nationalists and communists to form a working coalition government. In a few weeks he brought about a seemingly unattainable cease-fire and months later, in December 1946, stopped overnight in Yan'an en route to report his success to Truman.
Mao and his lieutenants shucked their shabby clothes and sneakers and met him at the airport wearing newly tailored woolen suits and shoes. Mao and Marshall rode into town in a truck provided by the mission.
After agreeing on broadening the cease-fire effort, they drank toasts of fiery liquor from porcelain tea cups. But Chiang Kai-shek, believing his army was stronger than Mao's, refused to honor a cease-fire and was ultimately defeated and exiled to Taiwan.
Throughout their stay, very few of the Dixie mission team got to know what the otherwise friendly communists thought. Their hosts took them on pheasant-hunting trips, and Mao and other leaders visited the compound to see American movies, but political discussion always was taboo.
Yeaton apparently expected this also to apply to me. When Zhu De, the amiable commander-in-chief, appeared at dinner one holiday, I asked his reaction to a nationalist initiative. He answered in detail, but Yeaton was clearly annoyed, and made it clear to me that in future meetings with the leading communists I was to be seen, not heard.
Some say the confusion over how close the mission should get to the communists spelled a golden opportunity forever lost. No one listened to those who predicted a communist victory.
In March 1947, 15 months after I got to Yan'an, with nationalist forces closing in, the mission turned over its vehicles to the communists and both left. When I asked for my final bill for food and lodging, Yeaton said Mao had offered to pick up the tab.
Senator McCarthy and the anti-communist committees were years away, but I prudently decided that AP would pay instead.
EDITOR'S NOTE: John Roderick reported from China for AP from 1945 to the 1949 communist takeover, and from the 1972 reopening of China to 1984.
I stared in astonishment at its 10,000 caves on my first visit in 1945 to the isolated Chinese communist capital of Yan'an, next to the Gobi Desert. My wonder grew as I spotted the Stars and Stripes fluttering from a flagpole of the U.S. Army Observer Group.
Popularly known as the Dixie Mission, this small encampment of officers and enlisted men is now almost forgotten. But in its four years of existence it set a historic record. It was the first official American organization to establish contact with Communist Party Chairman Mao Zedong and his battle-scarred comrades 28 years before Richard Nixon's famous visit to Beijing in 1972.
Sixty years after it was installed in Yan'an, a dusty city near the Great Wall of China in the northern province of Sha'anxi, historians and diplomats debate whether it was a success or a failure.
Its wartime instructions to rescue downed American fliers were successful: More than 100 were saved. But some critics thought its diplomats and "red experts," rather than military men, should have stayed on to take advantage of its unique contacts with Mao and his followers. Others believed it would be a waste of time.
The mission wound up in 1947, and two years later Mao's army swept south to drive out the Nationalist regime of Chiang Kai-shek and complete China's communist revolution.
Despite the rocky history of U.S.-Chinese relations that followed, the Chinese government looks back on the Dixie Mission period with evident nostalgia. In 1978 and 1991, it invited the mission's survivors and their families to Yan'an to relive their memories. It did so again last week with banquets and receptions in Beijing.
I got to Yan'an in November 1945 and stayed for seven months to report on the communist side of negotiations with the nationalists mediated by Gen. George C. Marshall, President Harry Truman's emissary. The Associated Press was the only foreign news organization to stay in Yan'an.
The Chinese had dug their caves in 1938 to house hospitals, universities, newspapers and training schools after Japanese air raids reduced the walled city to rubble. The Dixie Mission dug its own caves on arrival in 1944.
I occupied one of them, a dwelling like none I had ever known -- 8 feet by 10 -- light filtering in softly through glassless, paper-covered windows. The only bits of furniture were a table on which I installed my portable typewriter, a wooden chair, a wash basin and a bed -- planks set on saw horses.
Though the mattress was paper thin and the sand-stuffed pillow was rock-hard, I slept better than ever before in the 2,000-foot altitude and dry desert air.
The nearest toilet was 30 yards away and a single charcoal brazier failed to dispel the chill winter winds. But I quickly learned to live with the cold after charcoal fumes knocked me out and I had to be revived with oxygen. The effects of the mission's lard-laden food lasted longer -- I had acidosis that lasted for months.
Members of the mission and I dressed in padded clothes and showered in the makeshift bath house once a week, whether we needed it or not. But compared to the communists, reduced by the nationalist blockade to one patched and faded suit a year, we were squeaky clean.
The Cold War to come was already claiming political victims. The mission chief, Col. Ivan D. Yeaton, a ramrod-straight New Englander and starchy conservative, told me he was banished to Yan'an because as an assistant military attache in Moscow, he questioned the need for large amounts of American aid to the wartime Soviet Union. His liberal-thinking predecessor as Dixie Mission chief, Col. Dave Barrett, antagonized the conservative U.S. ambassador, Patrick J. Hurley, and paid for it by failing to get his general's star. Diplomats Jack Service and John Davies, who predicted Mao would triumph, were ignored by the State Department and pilloried in the 1950s by Sen. Joe McCarthy.
Craggy-faced George Marshall's name would later become almost synonymous with the reconstruction of post-World War II Europe. In China, he appeared successful in persuading the nationalists and communists to form a working coalition government. In a few weeks he brought about a seemingly unattainable cease-fire and months later, in December 1946, stopped overnight in Yan'an en route to report his success to Truman.
Mao and his lieutenants shucked their shabby clothes and sneakers and met him at the airport wearing newly tailored woolen suits and shoes. Mao and Marshall rode into town in a truck provided by the mission.
After agreeing on broadening the cease-fire effort, they drank toasts of fiery liquor from porcelain tea cups. But Chiang Kai-shek, believing his army was stronger than Mao's, refused to honor a cease-fire and was ultimately defeated and exiled to Taiwan.
Throughout their stay, very few of the Dixie mission team got to know what the otherwise friendly communists thought. Their hosts took them on pheasant-hunting trips, and Mao and other leaders visited the compound to see American movies, but political discussion always was taboo.
Yeaton apparently expected this also to apply to me. When Zhu De, the amiable commander-in-chief, appeared at dinner one holiday, I asked his reaction to a nationalist initiative. He answered in detail, but Yeaton was clearly annoyed, and made it clear to me that in future meetings with the leading communists I was to be seen, not heard.
Some say the confusion over how close the mission should get to the communists spelled a golden opportunity forever lost. No one listened to those who predicted a communist victory.
In March 1947, 15 months after I got to Yan'an, with nationalist forces closing in, the mission turned over its vehicles to the communists and both left. When I asked for my final bill for food and lodging, Yeaton said Mao had offered to pick up the tab.
Senator McCarthy and the anti-communist committees were years away, but I prudently decided that AP would pay instead.
EDITOR'S NOTE: John Roderick reported from China for AP from 1945 to the 1949 communist takeover, and from the 1972 reopening of China to 1984.
jpowers
Emperor
I definitely can't comment with more authority than those already here on which leader would be 'best' or most 'important,' but if you don't think the quote potential of Emperor Tang and Emperor Han are off the charts, then you must be drugged.
It's very simple.
Some Americans don't like Lenin, they think Lenin is not loved by millions of Russian.
Some Americans don't like Mao, they think Mao is not loved by millions of Chinese.
Yes, Americans have their standards, their standards are the only correct standard for human beings.
They send their standards to Iraq, although they can't find any weapons there but they saved Iraqi, Iraqi love them.
Some Americans don't like Lenin, they think Lenin is not loved by millions of Russian.
Some Americans don't like Mao, they think Mao is not loved by millions of Chinese.
Yes, Americans have their standards, their standards are the only correct standard for human beings.
They send their standards to Iraq, although they can't find any weapons there but they saved Iraqi, Iraqi love them.
chuanster
Warlord
温柔的杀你 said:
Just to side track you guys, ISn't 温柔的杀你 means Kill you tenderly rather than Love you tenderly???
southafrica
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2005
- Messages
- 233
laconic said:It's very simple.
Some Americans don't like Lenin, they think Lenin is not loved by millions of Russian.
Some Americans don't like Mao, they think Mao is not loved by millions of Chinese.
Yes, Americans have their standards, their standards are the only correct standard for human beings.
They send their standards to Iraq, although they can't find any weapons there but they saved Iraqi, Iraqi love them.
Your my hero! I love the standards that Mao had! He proved to be China's greatest leader! Many millions may still love him, but it is just a romantic love not one based on his accomplishments... People do love to idealize and romanticize the past...
By the way it takes more courage to attempt to create than to tear down...
(by the way we will only know the consequences of the iraqi war in twenty or so years, unfortunately in the information age if it doesn't appear to be an instant success it is an utter failure, imagine if WW2 was fought today and people saw the atrocities committed on all sides...)
laconic said:Yes, Americans have their standards, their standards are the only correct standard for human beings.
They send their standards to Iraq, although they can't find any weapons there but they saved Iraqi, Iraqi love them.
George W. Bush does not speak for all Americans. No not all Americans think their standard is the only standard for humane treatment. No not all Americans thought there were WMD in Iraq even before the war.You can talk trash all you want about our government, you can talk trash all you want about our leaders, but you cross the line when you insult a group of people base on stereotype. I do not see any insult against the Chinese people that would warrant such an insult so knock it off.
Similar threads
