About China

Sylphic:

No Mao did not kill 20 million people. If you read previous posts you would have realized that. (I know... so much stuff in this thread). Almost all of the deaths attributed to Mao were from the people who died from famine during the Great Leap Forward. During 1959-1962, flooding alone killed millions. Severe drought affect 55% of arable land. Food production cut in half for 3 years in a country of 700 million people w/ no foreign aid = lots of starving people. (source: wikipedia). Yes soviets help Mao greatly during the revolution. But after Mao founded China, the soviets realized that Mao was not content in being the soviet's lackeys and Mao soon fell from favor from the soviet regime.

Mao is not Hitler. Please learn actual history from an unbiased source before speaking out. I suggest wikipedia.
 
Those who lived thru the Mao Era was either have deep hatred of Mao or scared to death to speak bad about Mao.

There are a lot of old ladies who constantly never throw anything away because of what they went thru during the Mao era.

Don't say Chinese people even mainlanders idolizes Mao, other then for political purposes.
 
The fact that the famine was PREVENTABLE, and indirectly or directly caused by his ******** schemes and poor leadership, you can safely attribute the deaths of those 20 million more or less, to him.
 
Not to mention many died during the Cultural Revolution. Does anyone have the non-official statistic on this one??
 
"I don't like how many Chinese people regard Westerners as 'outsiders' who don't know the whole story. No, they probably saw things in a clear scope because of the fact that are outsiders. What Mao did after he liberated China was definitely WRONG (killing millions and setting China back for so many years) and deserve to be scolded"

I'm sorry but the truth of the matter is that westerner's hear about a few facts about china, like how 20 million people died during Mao's rule, and then interpret them from an biased, western point of view. Look at it this way: Fact: wedding in Iraq bombed by american bomber, people killed.
American point of view: it was an accident.
An Iraqi's or Iranian's point of view: America and george bush brutally murdered innocent civilians.

Who's right? The world is not black and white.
 
"The fact that the famine was PREVENTABLE, and indirectly or directly caused by his ******** schemes and poor leadership, you can safely attribute the deaths of those 20 million more or less, to him"

Food productions cut in half for 3 consecutive years due to drought and flooding. You have any idea just how much that is? You have ANY IDEA how much food it takes to feed 700 million people through a 3 year famine?? Sure Mao's policies cut back food production. But even with the cutbacks, china would have been able to feed itself if it wasn't for "one of the worlds worst natural disasters of the 20th's century" (Check wikipedia). The US didn't help. The USSR didn't help. Mao went to the soviets and asked for aid. The soviets told Mao that the chinese should "tighten their belts" and eat less. Mao's fault was that he failed the chinese people during one of the worst disasters of the century. He did not murder them.
 
civ analogy: to the Great Leap Forward

Imagine this:

You are a poor but large nation. your cities have no infrastructure, tile improvements razed, no granaries cuz everything was destroyed in a war. Your are very very far behind in technolgy because you just spent the last 100 turns or so pumping all you have into military in order to survive. However, you do have tons of peeople. Huge cities. Now you want to take some time and rebuild your infrastructure so you pull a few workers off of food tiles and make them work mines. A few of your cities are now stagnant, a few losing bread but you have some stored up so you think you'll be ok. All of a sudden, DISASTER STRIKES! NO FOOD Produced in half of your cities! This lasts for many many turns. Some places have enough food to last for a while, others don't make it. You WILL lose many citizens. How much of this is your fault???? you had no idea that such a huge disaster was even possible!!!! Now what do you do? Can't BUY food cuz no money. Can't BEG for food cuz everyone hates you. -14 with the americans, -6 relations w/ the russians. Sure, if you didn't put as many citizens on mining tiles, you would have a few more bread saved up. Won't make that much of a difference though.

Obviously not acurrate but gets the point across.

Was this preventable? H*LL NO. Could Mao have alleviated things if he was competent? YES. Is it convenient to blame everything on Mao? YES
 
To my understanding a lot of the famine was caused by Mao's policy of killing sparrows. This led to a huge increase in insects (which the sparrows would normally eat) and the insects destroyed large numbers of crops. People starved in the countryside as food was diverted to keep the cities running. Read "Grass Soup" if you want to know how bad it really was for some people.

Chinese people at the time were told that the famine was caused by natural disasters. This myth persists to a degree.

For those who objected to me mentioning Qianlong I am at work and don't have all my reference books here! No doubt there are other emperors who may deserve to be mentioned more. I just know ceramics made in his reign tend to be the most valuable of any Qing reign.

Maybe even put Pu Yi in as a "what if things had been different" leader (after all Civ is about rewriting history). I know that will be a totally controversial suggestion as I knew he grew up to betray China and side with the Japanese (although he was more of a weak silly individual who was easily manipulated and just wanted to be emperor again).

On the Native American/Candian question. I would love to see them put in as a civ. What happened to them was genocide and the similarities with what the Nazi's did are really stark - for example the death march of the Navajo to the Bosque Redondo. Manifest destiny sounds a lot like Nazi ideology when you look at it. I will mispell this totally but here goes - Mikaye Owasin - I'm English myself but we are all human after all.
 
It's funny but reasonable.
As a Chinese, personally I don't like or hate Mao
Mao is a great leader of China no dout. His intention is good thought the result maybe not as he expected. Even we think about the Culture revolution and Great Leap Forward. There are really many bad things in traditional Chinese culture. Mao think it is the cause of China being bullied with wetern countries even Japan for 100 years. He wants to remove those bad characters of Chinese. The "Great Leap Forward", we can see his intention by the name. The death of millions of people mostly was caused by natural disaster. We can not say his intention is to kill these people. Although he is too ideal to deal with all these things and his good intention brought bad results, we can not compare him with Stalin or Hitler. They are totally different.
Also, we can not always judge a person based on the result of what he did.
Sometimes his intention is more important. We can easily say what Mao did is bad today because we have already known the result. But if you were at his position in his era, how could you think you can do everthing then get the results as you expected?

Tragic said:
civ analogy: to the Great Leap Forward

Imagine this:

You are a poor but large nation. your cities have no infrastructure, tile improvements razed, no granaries cuz everything was destroyed in a war. Your are very very far behind in technolgy because you just spent the last 100 turns or so pumping all you have into military in order to survive. However, you do have tons of peeople. Huge cities. Now you want to take some time and rebuild your infrastructure so you pull a few workers off of food tiles and make them work mines. A few of your cities are now stagnant, a few losing bread but you have some stored up so you think you'll be ok. All of a sudden, DISASTER STRIKES! NO FOOD Produced in half of your cities! This lasts for many many turns. Some places have enough food to last for a while, others don't make it. You WILL lose many citizens. How much of this is your fault???? you had no idea that such a huge disaster was even possible!!!! Now what do you do? Can't BUY food cuz no money. Can't BEG for food cuz everyone hates you. -14 with the americans, -6 relations w/ the russians. Sure, if you didn't put as many citizens on mining tiles, you would have a few more bread saved up. Won't make that much of a difference though.

Obviously not acurrate but gets the point across.

Was this preventable? H*LL NO. Could Mao have alleviated things if he was competent? YES. Is it convenient to blame everything on Mao? YES
 
Tragic said:
Imagine this:

You are a poor but large nation. your cities have no infrastructure, tile improvements razed, no granaries cuz everything was destroyed in a war. Your are very very far behind in technolgy because you just spent the last 100 turns or so pumping all you have into military in order to survive. However, you do have tons of peeople. Huge cities. Now you want to take some time and rebuild your infrastructure so you pull a few workers off of food tiles and make them work mines. A few of your cities are now stagnant, a few losing bread but you have some stored up so you think you'll be ok. All of a sudden, DISASTER STRIKES! NO FOOD Produced in half of your cities! This lasts for many many turns. Some places have enough food to last for a while, others don't make it. You WILL lose many citizens. How much of this is your fault???? you had no idea that such a huge disaster was even possible!!!! Now what do you do? Can't BUY food cuz no money. Can't BEG for food cuz everyone hates you. -14 with the americans, -6 relations w/ the russians. Sure, if you didn't put as many citizens on mining tiles, you would have a few more bread saved up. Won't make that much of a difference though.

Obviously not acurrate but gets the point across.

Was this preventable? H*LL NO. Could Mao have alleviated things if he was competent? YES. Is it convenient to blame everything on Mao? YES
lol i was just about to write some thing like this

here are some facts(all from english version of wikipedia which mostly writen by westerner), i summed them up into interesting figures.

in 2005, the estimated death rate in china is 6.94, which means 6.94 people dies out of 1000 people per year. china have 1.3 billion population
1.3billion / 1000 x 6.94 = 9million
ok whoops, 9 million people will die this year because our chinese government is communist.
before 1945, (civil war, sino-japan war), china have life expectancy of 35 years. imagine the death rates. ooohhh, blames Mao.

this is the link for the three years disaster which took place in great leap forward
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Years_of_Natural_Disasters
its like in civ4, where 60% of your farm suddenly turned into desert(drought), cities that next to the main river now at bottom of the sea(flood).
 
Estimations vary largely because of inaccurate data. According to Wim F Werthheim, emeritus professor from the University of Amsterdam, in the article "Wild Swans and Mao's Agrarian Strategy";

Often it is argued that at the censuses of the 1960s "between 17 and 29 millions of Chinese" appeared to be missing, in comparison with the official census figures from the 1950s. But these calculations are lacking any semblance of reliability...it is hard to believe that suddenly, within a rather short period (1953-1960), the total population of China had risen from 450 [million] to 600 million.

Chinese expert of demography, Dr Ping-ti Ho, professor of history at the University of Chicago, in a book titled Studies on the Population of China, 1368-1953, Harvard East Asian Studies No 4, 1959, mentions that:

My conclusion is that the claim that in the 1960s a number between 17 million and 29 million people was "missing" is worthless if there was never any certainty about the 600 millions of Chinese. Most probably these "missing people" did not starve in the calamity years 1960-61, but in fact have never existed.
 
Regardless of the views that a person may have on Mao, history will ultimately give a fair judgement on Mao's achievement. I would like to give an objective comparison of Mao to several of past Chinese leaders:

Comparing Mao to Han Wudi is wrong. Han Wudi was a very blessed emperor. His two predecessors spent roughly 50-60 years of pure economic development in order to have the resources and technologies for Han Wudi to achieve his greatness. Similarly, comparing Mao to Qianlong of the Qing Dynasty is also wrong.

Two great Chinese leaders that Mao cannot match are Tang Taizong and Kangxi of the Qing Dynasty. Both were founders/immediate rulers after unification/occupation of China. Both reigns took place after years of ravaging and pillaging by hungry peasants, civil wars, invasions, etc. Both reigns were marked by several internal uprisings. Please also keep in mind that the Yellow River never stopped flooding and that there is always a drought somewhere in the central plains of China. What stopped these so called "natural disasters" were, to a certain degree, prevented due to effective governing and, to a certain degree, mitigated due to prompt responses. That's why the disasters did not become the "worst natural disasters of the century."

Neither Tang Taizong nor Kangxi received any foreign subsidies. Tang Taizong had to tighten his belt in his early years by reducing imperial spendings by cutting back on standards of ceremonies. Tang Taizong employed good-willed and strong-opinionated advisors who constantly pissed him off by preventing him from doing what he wanted. Together with open border agreements with neighboring countries and free religious practices, and after twenty years of reign, China was able to reach one of the most glorious and longest gold age.

Kangxi, on the other hand, faced a reigned with 90%+ population opposing his rule. He was able to learn from the opposing culture and developed a form of governance that was strict yet humane. He developed the most comprehensive testing system to date to avoid fraud and corruption, which in turn provided civilians with opportunities for advancement and provided himself with qualified officials to assist in governing. He also allowed for open borders and readily accepted Western technologies and was able to solidify litigious border issues with Russia. After his reign of 60 years or so, the prosperity was able to continue unhindered for another 70-80 years.

Similar in setup, yet due to different governing philosophies and insufficient sacrifices, Mao was not able to achieve as great of an accomplishment as Tang Taizong and Kanxi.

On the other hand, comparing Mao to Qin Shi Huang, Sui Wendi, or Kublai Khan, you will see a lot of similarities but differences in terms of outcomes.

Qin Shi Huang, who unified China, unified the coinage, unified the written language, unified the standards of wheel, was arguably one of the most accomplished leaders. He ended the Warring States period, which lasted for hundreds of years, and moved the country forward under one rule. Without him, there is no China today. Similarly, Mao ended years of internal strife between regional military rulers and between the KMT and the Communist Party and unified the mainland China. Qin Shi Huang burned books and buried scholars while Mao brought about the Cultural Revolution and sent educated youngsters to the farms instead of universities. Qin Shi Huang built the Great Wall and kept the barbarians at bay while Mao built a sizeable military and one of the first atom bombs to keep greedy outsiders from taking more land away from China. What is different is that Qin Shi Huang's dynasty lasted for only 18 years while the Communist Party is still in control of China today.

Sui Wendi, who also unified China after years of civil war, had a great opportunity to achieve greatness without the constant battering from natural disasters. However, his government was too fragile to last under the reign of his son. In contrast, even with all the so called disasters and much debated achievements, the People's Republic is now in its fourth succession.

Kublai Khan, a great leader for the Mongolians, was a horrible ruler for the Chinese. His distrust of the Han people ultimately limited the Yuan Dynasty to a mere 99 years. Similarly, Mao's distrust of his peers limited the country from rapid growth during his reign. However, his legacy did not last as the borders were opened in the 1980s.

Mao did some great things but also did some horrible things. He was definitely not lucky in terms of timing but he was definitely successful in becoming one of the most recognizable face of the modern world from a humble beginning of an ancestral scholar.

In terms of achievements, I would compare Mao to Zhu Yuan Zhang, the founding emperor of the Ming Dynasty. They shared a lot of similarities. While both were great military strategists, neither led an army on the frontline. While they both achieved their leadership postions from humble beginning with the help of their close confidants, they both murdered their friends afterwards. While they both were successful in driving the oppositions out of the central plains, neither achieved full unification of China. Lastly, they both made horrible governing decisions that haunted the citizens for the years to come.

My comment to Mao and Zhu Yuan Zhang: their decisions in the way they ruled the land was necessary based on the timing, the economics, and the international landscape. However, with a little more personal sacrifice, they could have been better and be ranked among the greatests such as Tang Taizong and Kanxi. Ultimately I believe the heavenly judgement on Mao's children were the most appropriate for all of his actions

Finally, at a more personal level, I would much prefer to live under Mao's rule than under Empress Dowager's.

Yssilk
 
Mao implemented this policy where family as an economic unit was abolished and every village joined into a commune. Everyone would be assgined work by the commune and the commune woudl in term, provide them with the necessaries. This is essentially the Marxist ideal of 'contribute according to ability, take according to need'. But such policy gives young man, especially young single man, who also happened to be the most productive members of the society, very little incentive to work hard. He worked all day, and at the end got only 1 bowl of rice, but his next door neighbor, who was a widow with 5 daughters will not have to work, and get 6 bowls of rice.
So everyone just fvcked off and became lazy. Food production dropped, and when disaster struck, people starved.
 
:)
yssilk said:
Regardless of the views that a person may have on Mao, history will ultimately give a fair judgement on Mao's achievement. I would like to give an objective comparison of Mao to several of past Chinese leaders:

Comparing Mao to Han Wudi is wrong. Han Wudi was a very blessed emperor. His two predecessors spent roughly 50-60 years of pure economic development in order to have the resources and technologies for Han Wudi to achieve his greatness. Similarly, comparing Mao to Qianlong of the Qing Dynasty is also wrong.

Two great Chinese leaders that Mao cannot match are Tang Taizong and Kangxi of the Qing Dynasty. Both were founders/immediate rulers after unification/occupation of China. Both reigns took place after years of ravaging and pillaging by hungry peasants, civil wars, invasions, etc. Both reigns were marked by several internal uprisings. Please also keep in mind that the Yellow River never stopped flooding and that there is always a drought somewhere in the central plains of China. What stopped these so called "natural disasters" were, to a certain degree, prevented due to effective governing and, to a certain degree, mitigated due to prompt responses. That's why the disasters did not become the "worst natural disasters of the century."

Neither Tang Taizong nor Kangxi received any foreign subsidies. Tang Taizong had to tighten his belt in his early years by reducing imperial spendings by cutting back on standards of ceremonies. Tang Taizong employed good-willed and strong-opinionated advisors who constantly pissed him off by preventing him from doing what he wanted. Together with open border agreements with neighboring countries and free religious practices, and after twenty years of reign, China was able to reach one of the most glorious and longest gold age.

Kangxi, on the other hand, faced a reigned with 90%+ population opposing his rule. He was able to learn from the opposing culture and developed a form of governance that was strict yet humane. He developed the most comprehensive testing system to date to avoid fraud and corruption, which in turn provided civilians with opportunities for advancement and provided himself with qualified officials to assist in governing. He also allowed for open borders and readily accepted Western technologies and was able to solidify litigious border issues with Russia. After his reign of 60 years or so, the prosperity was able to continue unhindered for another 70-80 years.

Similar in setup, yet due to different governing philosophies and insufficient sacrifices, Mao was not able to achieve as great of an accomplishment as Tang Taizong and Kanxi.

On the other hand, comparing Mao to Qin Shi Huang, Sui Wendi, or Kublai Khan, you will see a lot of similarities but differences in terms of outcomes.

Qin Shi Huang, who unified China, unified the coinage, unified the written language, unified the standards of wheel, was arguably one of the most accomplished leaders. He ended the Warring States period, which lasted for hundreds of years, and moved the country forward under one rule. Without him, there is no China today. Similarly, Mao ended years of internal strife between regional military rulers and between the KMT and the Communist Party and unified the mainland China. Qin Shi Huang burned books and buried scholars while Mao brought about the Cultural Revolution and sent educated youngsters to the farms instead of universities. Qin Shi Huang built the Great Wall and kept the barbarians at bay while Mao built a sizeable military and one of the first atom bombs to keep greedy outsiders from taking more land away from China. What is different is that Qin Shi Huang's dynasty lasted for only 18 years while the Communist Party is still in control of China today.

Sui Wendi, who also unified China after years of civil war, had a great opportunity to achieve greatness without the constant battering from natural disasters. However, his government was too fragile to last under the reign of his son. In contrast, even with all the so called disasters and much debated achievements, the People's Republic is now in its fourth succession.

Kublai Khan, a great leader for the Mongolians, was a horrible ruler for the Chinese. His distrust of the Han people ultimately limited the Yuan Dynasty to a mere 99 years. Similarly, Mao's distrust of his peers limited the country from rapid growth during his reign. However, his legacy did not last as the borders were opened in the 1980s.

Mao did some great things but also did some horrible things. He was definitely not lucky in terms of timing but he was definitely successful in becoming one of the most recognizable face of the modern world from a humble beginning of an ancestral scholar.

In terms of achievements, I would compare Mao to Zhu Yuan Zhang, the founding emperor of the Ming Dynasty. They shared a lot of similarities. While both were great military strategists, neither led an army on the frontline. While they both achieved their leadership postions from humble beginning with the help of their close confidants, they both murdered their friends afterwards. While they both were successful in driving the oppositions out of the central plains, neither achieved full unification of China. Lastly, they both made horrible governing decisions that haunted the citizens for the years to come.

My comment to Mao and Zhu Yuan Zhang: their decisions in the way they ruled the land was necessary based on the timing, the economics, and the international landscape. However, with a little more personal sacrifice, they could have been better and be ranked among the greatests such as Tang Taizong and Kanxi. Ultimately I believe the heavenly judgement on Mao's children were the most appropriate for all of his actions

Finally, at a more personal level, I would much prefer to live under Mao's rule than under Empress Dowager's.

Yssilk
I think you really know chinese well though I don't agree with your opinion on Qin Shi Huang ,I believe he is the most remarkable person in chinese 5000-year history,but such huge achievements perhaps is too hard for one man to keep on after his death.Obviously, mao's working on china cannot be compared with Qin's even though it is a great achievement in most situation.
Maybe Oliver Cromwell of England is a better comparison to mao.
 
Comparing Mao to Hitler is wrong.

Hitler lead a Modernized, Industrialized and Civilized Germany into dark side. Without him, Germany would be still in advanced at following technologies - Rocket, Nuclear, Computer etc. during 40s. The center of the world (or european) would be in Germany later on. Hilter is a warmonger, when he failed he turn Germany into ruins.

Mao reunited China, during that time, China is an Agricultural, non-Industrialized country and 90% people - peasants are unCivilized. However, some of his policies are similar with Otto von Bismarck if anyone want to compare Mao to western people. (I agree parts of them.)

Comparing Mao to Tang Taizong is wrong.

The difference between Tang and Tujue (Gokturks) is not an era difference during Mao's time. Soviet Union and US are one era advanced to China in 50s. Both of them like to control China or let China collapse and separated again.

Comparing Mao to Kangxi is wrong.

About 100 years ago before Kangxi's time, Ming Dynasty already setup arquebusier (harquebusier) army. Yes, the rest of Ming Dynasty didn't open board but they did import western technologies, books even Portugal's advanced cannon, technicians and copy it. What did Kangxi do? He still believe horse archer is the best army. Did he open board? No. Did he accepted Western technologies? No. He played it by himself only and didn't allow it to be spread. What he did is keeping the whole system like Ming Dynasty and share some power to Han people not like Kublai Khan because he knew Kublai Khan failed. If you compare Kangxi and Peter, then you know why Russia become powerful but China falled after that.

Personal opinion.
 
Tragic said:
Mao gave the Chinese people a country. He ended a century of China’s humiliation and subservience to the western powers, Russia and Japan. For that he will always be one of the greatest leaders in Chinese history.

Yes the cultural revolution was a disaster. Yes the great Leap forward ended in tragedy. My parents and grand parents lived through the worst of that, and I have heard horrible stories. But China has recovered. And Mao gift to the Chinese people still stands strong today.

You talk about standards of Washington’s time. Realize that the standards in China during the 1950s and 1960s are vastly different from the standards of today. Don’t judge Mao by the standards of today.

No China has been there since Qin Shi Huang, the form of government might have changed, but the nation has always been there. What Mao gave to the people was an experiment in communist economics, an experiment that went horribly wrong. Ending the humilation and subservience by outside power at the cost of your own history, heritage, and culture does not make you a great leader. Look at Japan, their country in many ways was even more backwards than China before Mathew Perry demanded Japan to open its doors to the outside world. In 50 years Japan went from a feudal backward state to a world power without destorying their own culture without destroying their own heritage. Revolution can be done better than the way Mao did it and it has been done better elsewhere.

What Mao did for China isn't a gift, its a curse.The reason why China stand strong today it is because of the leaders that came after Mao knew what Mao was doing would not work and would bring the nation into ruins. China is strong today not because it is holding on to the communistic ideals that Mao put forth, but abandonning them for a slow but steady metamorphasis into a capitalistic economy and an open society. China is strong today because its leaders today know better than to blindly pursue progress as Mao did. How China got to where it is today, is not because of Mao, it is because the leaders that came after Mao.

You took my passage about Washington and slavery out of context. I said Washington knew Slavery was wrong but he knew that if tried to abolish Slavery it would destroy the nation. He took the right steps by inaction instead of being like Mao to blindly rush toward progress. Mao's blind rush toward progress ended up putting China decades behind in terms of progress instead of actually improving China. I wasn't comparing standards the two men were living (nor any other standard of living), i was comparing the two leader's ability to lead and build a better tomorrow for their respective nation.

Finally, wikipedia is NOT a reliable source. Its passages are written by people on the internet, and worst of all it can be edited by ANYONE on the internet. Who is to say the person who posted or edited it knew what they were talking about or what they wrote is actually correct? Any information pulled from wikipedia needs to be taken with a grain of salt... in my opinion lots of grain of salt.
 
No I don't think China has recovered from the Cultural Revolution or the whole Communist regime for that matter. The CR polluted people's minds and it's going to take decades and decades to recover. Corruption, lawlessness, lack of empathy, etcetcetc. China is probably the no.1 producer of privated/fake goods. Has 23,000 millionares but only 1 donated 2 million during the SARS crisis. 5000+ mining deaths every year, and let's not even go into corruption. What we hear about now is only on the surface - growing economy, spaceflight etc the 'hardware' has caught on but the 'software' hasn't adapted quickly enough to match it.

The West expanded on the basis of their religion and culture but China is now doing the same without any of the ideology left by her ancestors. It's all because of the Cultural Revolution. I don't think I'm going to like my own country until one day it has progressed in terms of its mentality.
 
gakkun said:
No I don't think China has recovered from the Cultural Revolution or the whole Communist regime for that matter. The CR polluted people's minds and it's going to take decades and decades to recover. Corruption, lawlessness, lack of empathy, etcetcetc. China is probably the no.1 producer of privated/fake goods. Has 23,000 millionares but only 1 donated 2 million during the SARS crisis. 5000+ mining deaths every year, and let's not even go into corruption. What we hear about now is only on the surface - growing economy, spaceflight etc the 'hardware' has caught on but the 'software' hasn't adapted quickly enough to match it.

The West expanded on the basis of their religion and culture but China is now doing the same without any of the ideology left by her ancestors. It's all because of the Cultural Revolution. I don't think I'm going to like my own country until one day it has progressed in terms of its mentality.
u went too far man, we talking about mao, not what problem china has today.
 
Dida said:
Mao implemented this policy where family as an economic unit was abolished and every village joined into a commune. Everyone would be assgined work by the commune and the commune woudl in term, provide them with the necessaries. This is essentially the Marxist ideal of 'contribute according to ability, take according to need'. But such policy gives young man, especially young single man, who also happened to be the most productive members of the society, very little incentive to work hard. He worked all day, and at the end got only 1 bowl of rice, but his next door neighbor, who was a widow with 5 daughters will not have to work, and get 6 bowls of rice.
So everyone just fvcked off and became lazy. Food production dropped, and when disaster struck, people starved.
so if china was capitalist
ok, so that single young man worked hard, and got 6 bowls of rice per day
the widow with 5 daughters cant work, so they got 0 bowls of rice per day

i would still prefer the communism way, if i live at that time
 
panzooka said:
so if china was capitalist
ok, so that single young man worked hard, and got 6 bowls of rice per day
the widow with 5 daughters cant work, so they got 0 bowls of rice per day

i would still prefer the communism way, if i live at that time
The problem with that analogy is that why is the government regulating how much I eat ? If I work more, I have the right to eat more, period. Also, I'm sure there are plenty of widows here in the west with 5 children or whatever, but I don't hear them starving to death. Why ? Because the people here actually DONATE !
 
Back
Top Bottom