Abstinence only works, how moronic

MobBoss said:
It can work for some people, but the vast majority just dont have the willpower to pull it off.
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So should we take no steps to address it, or contine promoting a policy that does not work?

Remember, most unwanted or acciedental pregnancies occur between the mid teens to mid twenties. For men at least, the pre-frontal cortex hasn't really developed until the mid twenties. For women it is still an issue, but theirs develops earlier.

So, you are advocating a system based on decision making and planning to be used by individuals where the part of their brain that controls decision making and planning hasn't fully developed?

Talk about blaiming the gunshot victim for bleening on the carpet as you tell him to fetch the bandages.
 
Ajidica said:
So should we take no steps to address it, or contine promoting a policy that does not work?

Remember, most unwanted or acciedental pregnancies occur between the mid teens to mid twenties. For men at least, the pre-frontal cortex hasn't really developed until the mid twenties. For women it is still an issue, but theirs develops earlier.

So, you are advocating a system based on decision making and planning to be used by individuals where the part of their brain that controls decision making and planning hasn't fully developed?

Talk about blaiming the gunshot victim for bleening on the carpet as you tell him to fetch the bandages.
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My belief is that abstinence is simply part of the equation. It shouldnt be exclusive in sex education, but nor should it be excluded. I think it should be given equal weight when being taught to kids. Leave it up to them if they think they want to try that method or not.
 
Ajidica said:
So, you are advocating a system based on decision making and planning to be used by individuals where the part of their brain that controls decision making and planning hasn't fully developed?
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You're doing EXACTLY the same thing by telling them to wear a condom. That requires self-control and decision making.

So you're basically trying to simultaneously argue that people can control their urges and that they can't.
 
Bestbank Tiger said:
You're doing EXACTLY the same thing by telling them to wear a condom. That requires self-control and decision making.

So you're basically trying to simultaneously argue that people can control their urges and that they can't.
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Because wearing a condom = not having sex
 
MobBoss said:
My belief is that abstinence is simply part of the equation. It shouldnt be exclusive in sex education, but nor should it be excluded. I think it should be given equal weight when being taught to kids. Leave it up to them if they think they want to try that method or not.
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Sure, which is basicaly my opinion.

Bestbank Tiger said:
You're doing EXACTLY the same thing by telling them to wear a condom. That requires self-control and decision making.
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Sure, the system isn't perfect, but telling teens that if they are going to do it depite of everything that they have been told, wear a condom, is better then simply saying don't do it and expect the not fully developed pre-frontal cortex to kick in miraculously.
 
Ajidica said:
Sure, which is basicaly my opinion.


Sure, the system isn't perfect, but telling teens that if they are going to do it depite of everything that they have been told, wear a condom, is better then simply saying don't do it and expect the not fully developed pre-frontal cortex to kick in miraculously.
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Of course they should know all the information.

But you can't fix stupid, and the problems come from people making stupid decisions.
 
Bestbank Tiger said:
Of course they should know all the information.

But you can't fix stupid, and the problems come from people making stupid decisions.
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At the risk of sounding snarky, what are we even arguing about?
I agree, the best way to prevent accidental pregancies is simply not to have sex. But since people will have sex even when told not to, other forms of education have to be provided.
 
Yes, it is totally reasonable to expect hormone-bombarded teenagers to resist sex.
 
MobBoss said:
I think it should be given equal weight when being taught to kids.
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What do you mean by equal weight?

I certainly do not think it is reasonable to give it equal teaching time when teaching to kids, you can explain everything about abstinence in about 20 seconds:

"Abstinence is the absence of sex (which we have already defined). If you practice abstinence, none of the STDs or pregnancy issues we will be discussing apply to you."
 
I'm 20 years older then your typical teenager, but from what I've seen, sex is now seen as no big deal. While I disagree with that, I feel you need to consider the culture of todays teen when you talk to them about sex. While I agree that you should teach abstinence, I feel the parent is being a fool not to teach them about how to be safe if they decide to be active. You can hope they listen to the abstinence part, but its better to prepare if they're active.

That or cut it off/sew it shut. :mischief:
 
Methos said:
I'm 20 years older then your typical teenager, but from what I've seen, sex is now seen as no big deal.
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Given that this was also the case 20 years ago, I feel a pang of sympathy for Teenage You. :lol:

Teens are gonna do it. Any policy that starts from ignoring that fact is just lunacy. Even "Make sure you lose your virginity to someone you really care about" would be a million times better at keeping kids safe than "Don't do it until you marry."
 
Quackers said:
... and Russia isn't the West either.
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Alcohol is a downer, in more ways than one.


Supply condoms freely in clinics and schools, IIRC birth control pills are already supplied freely at clinics, but they should be supplied in schools too.

Paying $15 a box for condoms can add up depending on how much you go a spelunking.
 
Tacitusitis said:
Given that this was also the case 20 years ago, I feel a pang of sympathy for Teenage You. :lol:

Teens are gonna do it. Any policy that starts from ignoring that fact is just lunacy. Even "Make sure you lose your virginity to someone you really care about" would be a million times better at keeping kids safe than "Don't do it until you marry."
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Not to mention that, the more a person holds off having sex for some half-baked reason, the more likely that person will have unhealthy attitudes/hang-ups about it when they become a young adult. I speak from experience of course.
 
What's the big deal? Give young teens their first condoms at school for free, with instructions on use and where to get more at need, and stop worrying about them having sex! They will at some point, and why not...?
 
Zelig said:
What do you mean by equal weight?

I certainly do not think it is reasonable to give it equal teaching time when teaching to kids, you can explain everything about abstinence in about 20 seconds:

"Abstinence is the absence of sex (which we have already defined). If you practice abstinence, none of the STDs or pregnancy issues we will be discussing apply to you."
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Equal weight means equal weight.

And no, if all you take is 20 seconds to explain abstinence no wonder it doesnt work. As in anything, there is far more to it than just explaining its definition.

@Dragonlord. I dont think its should be the schools business to hand my kid a condom. Both as a parent, and a taxpayer, I have a problem with that.
 
Taniciusfox said:
Not my fault God made it so we can't have children. :p

My responsibilities end at STDs.

With heterosexuals, it goes beyond that and extends to keeping kids out of the world. You must accept responsibility for your actions, and fate has decided heterosexuals have more responsibilities in sex.

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Abstinence is still a good ideology for gays too anyway. STDs don't discriminate on whether you're homosexual or heterosexual. Being gay doesn't give you a free ticket to have sexual adventures, since you still have consequences you can face.
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And it is a scientific fact that STDs are more common for gays so it evens out.
 
MobBoss said:
@Dragonlord. I dont think its should be the schools business to hand my kid a condom. Both as a parent, and a taxpayer, I have a problem with that.
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It would be fine if your objection was confined to your own children instead of everybody else's as well. After all, I'm pretty sure you would be more than willing to effectively ruin their lives if they ever get pregnant at an early age because it is "morally right" to do so. But what right do you have to do it to others' children?

Moderator Action: Don't make personal comments like that.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Formaldehyde said:
It would be just fine if your objection was confined to your own children instead of everybody else's as well. After all, I'm pretty sure you would be more than willing to effectively ruin their lives if they ever get pregnant because it is "morally right" to do so.
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Still isn't the taxpayer's job however....
 
I would definitely say that properly educating children and providing for their general welfare is very much "the taxpayers's job".
 
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