ACLU, Antonin Scalia on the same side

[GhostWriter16]

Because they defend the civil rights act, which you and other conservatives hate.

Few conservatives hate it. Some libertarians do.

I personally don't have a problem with most of it but I object to the part that applies anti-discrimination on private property.

Because contrary to all your shouting about the NDAA, the Obama administration has done a decent job of respecting civil rights. Most Repubs are clamoring for the administration to stop respecting them.

Drone strikes on US citizens? Continuing to wage the Bush-wars? Continuing the wiretapping? And the aforementioned NDAA 2012 (That he has yet to indefinitely detain anyone without trial [as far as we know. Do you really think I believe him?] does not make his law any less anti-liberty.)

At least they gave Ron Paul a higher score, if only by 2 points. It should be more like Ron Paul- 23, Obama and every mainstream Republican- (Insert number from 0-5)

Because the ACLU gets off going into rural communities and threating to bankrupt school districts if they dare have a benediction at the high school graduation ceremony.

Is it a compulsory prayer? If so, I can understand that being a constittuional issue. Otherwise, seems like a local issue to me.

And before somebody goes off on "Theocrat" I'm not even a big fan of prayer in schools (public ones, if public schools have to exist, I have no issue with it in a Christian school) but making it a constitutional issue if nobody has to participate seems a little iffy.

I have much, much more of an issue with the pledge of allegiance honestly. Both because I become more and more iffy with pledging allegiance to this state, and because of "Indivisible." Calling it "Indivisible" is blatant anti-liberty nationalism, nothing more.

 

[Goodfella]

Why is there the right wing impression that they are a left wing organization then?

Before? Civil rights. Now? Gay marriage and civil rights. Don't ask me why the government should tell people who they can marry. You're the libertarian after all.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I didn't say the government should tell them that. Really, I wish government would just stay out of it altogether. Gay marriage is the ultimate cop-out issue in this nation though, it allows the War Party to pretend like they are actually two different parties because of it. I wish people would just shut up about it.

 

[Goodfella]

I didn't say the government should tell them that. Really, I wish government would just stay out of it altogether. .

Yeah so it's legal right?

I wish people would just shut up about it.

I do to. But for some reason this still happens: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ry-essence-of-the-human-creature-8428862.html

 

[GhostWriter16]

Yeah so it's legal right?

Yeah but government wouldn't recognize it.


Under current conditions I content myself to oppose Federal recognition of any marriage and let the states decide what marriages to recognize, or preferably none.

I do to. But for some reason this still happens: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ry-essence-of-the-human-creature-8428862.html

For the record, I meant that I wished both sides would shut up about it, not just one side.

 

[Archbob]

You can't do that. After all, that would be "systematically removing God from the schools".

Doesn't the 1st amendment already do that?

 

[History_Buff]

Drone strikes on US citizens? Continuing to wage the Bush-wars? Continuing the wiretapping? And the aforementioned NDAA 2012 (That he has yet to indefinitely detain anyone without trial [as far as we know. Do you really think I believe him?] does not make his law any less anti-liberty.)

In the war on terror the Republicans started? Withdrawing from the wars the Republicans started? Continuing the wiretapping the Republicans started? The NDAA that the Republicans by and large voted for, when the alternative was a halt to all military funding?

Boy, those Republicans are real bastions of civil liberties. Nor do you get to cop out by claiming most conservatives don't support them, as they keep voting for them.

Is it a compulsory prayer? If so, I can understand that being a constittuional issue. Otherwise, seems like a local issue to me.

Doesn't matter if it's compulsory. The authorities at a school (which are after all, government funded) are not allowed to lead prayers. 1st Amendment and all that other liberal garbage.

 

[Formaldehyde]

For the record, I meant that I wished both sides would shut up about it, not just one side.

Why should those who are fighting for equal rights for yet another oppressed minority possibly want to "shut up about it"? Again, aren't you an advocate of personal liberty and freedom like the ACLU clearly is? What sort of libertarian would want to ignore it and wished it just went away?

Doesn't the 1st amendment already do that?

Only for those who actually do believe in the basic tenets which this country was founded. That apparently doesn't pertain to a sizable portion of the Republican Party and the Libertarian Party, especially the ones who think separation of church and state was invented by an ACLU lawyer in the 1940s. They seem to think the First Amendment only protects their religious rights from the federal government.

 

[kochman]

Showing yet again that you are actually opposed to liberty and freedom, as well protection for all under the Constitution? If you were actually a libertarian you would support everything they do. After all, that is really their mission statement.

Ridiculous.
Saying, if you don't like 100% of what this organization does (the ACLU in this case), you are X (not a libertarian in this case), is often flawed.

In this case, completely flawed.

 

[GhostWriter16]

In the war on terror the Republicans started? Withdrawing from the wars the Republicans started? Continuing the wiretapping the Republicans started? The NDAA that the Republicans by and large voted for, when the alternative was a halt to all military funding?

Boy, those Republicans are real bastions of civil liberties. Nor do you get to cop out by claiming most conservatives don't support them, as they keep voting for them.

Saying "Obama sucks on civil liberties" does not mean "The Republicans are any good at civil liberties." With the exception of Ron Paul and Gary Johnson, the Republican candidates in the GOP primary absolutely sucked at Civil liberties. Maybe they were even worse than Obama. I feared Romney would be (worse) and more of a warmongerer, so I actually did prefer Obama, although that doesn't really mean much. Would I have voted for Obama? Unless someone put a gun to my head, I wouldn't have voted for either him or Romney. Were I 3 months older I would have voted for Gary Johnson.

That Republicans voted for that new NDAA does not make Obama any better, it just shows that the Republicans suck too.

American political culture sucks. Most people don't really give a crap about liberty. And so we're in the situation we're in.

Obama's drone strikes of civilians, signing of the 2012 NDAA, extension of the Patriot Act, expansion of the TSA, and supporting all of the above (And now, trying to restrict the right to bear arms, although I can see why a liberal organization such as the ACLU wouldn't care about that one)

To say he's good on civil liberties just because the Republicans happen to agree with him on expanding the government spynet does not make him good, it just means the Republicans also suck.

I make no claim to be a Republican. There are very few actually worth voting for.

Doesn't matter if it's compulsory. The authorities at a school (which are after all, government funded) are not allowed to lead prayers. 1st Amendment and all that other liberal garbage.

Where is that in the first amendment?

I don't even really agree with this (Prayers in government schools, although I don't really agree with the existance of government schools) but I don't see where the 1st amendment would prohibit a local government from doing it as long as it wasn't compulsory.

Frankly, I'd be far more concerned about the religion of patriotism and state worship as manifested by the US pledge of allegiance.

I'm frankly more directly concerned about the government leaving people alone than I am about absolute silencing of religion in public school. And that is while not agreeing with the prayers either.

Why should those who are fighting for equal rights for yet another oppressed minority possibly want to "shut up about it"? Again, aren't you an advocate of personal liberty and freedom like the ACLU clearly is? What sort of libertarian would want to ignore it and wished it just went away?

Gay people are not "Oppressed" in the United States. In most states, the government does not change the definition of marriage for them. That's it.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Gay people are not "Oppressed" in the United States. In most states, the government does not change the definition of marriage for them. That's it.

That is patently absurd and it again shows you apparently don't even know what the word "libertarian" means.

Are you familiar at all with DADT and how it was only recently defeated? How many Christian right Republicans still want to bring it back even today? Or how the defeat of the sodomy statutes in some states required the courts to finally rule them unconstitutional before they finally disappeared less than 10 years ago? How the US military can still persecute loyal soldiers on that basis? How until the 1970s that homosexuality was considered to be a form of mental illness instead of merely being a personal preference? How homosexuals are still being driven to suicide on a regular basis by "pray the gay away" Christian organizations? How Congress still to this day refuses to put it into law that they cannot be discriminated against, as they finally did with so many other forms of discrimination due to the political influence of the Christian right?

You just admitted that you wished the quite obvious problems would just go away, as though it requires magic instead of forcing the bigots to finally accept them as being human beings in even the more backwards states.

If you were actually a libertarian, you would be doing all you could to end this blatant discrimination and oppression while publicly supporting the main organization in the US whose sole purpose is to bring liberty, freedom, and equal rights to all. It is inane that any American would be opposed to the ACLU because all they do is defend and support the basic tenets of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, much less someone who claims to be a "libertarian" in so many threads.