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Acronym's Bucket List Succession Game - sign-ups open!

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Acronym, May 27, 2014.

  1. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    I absolutely am obliging Tokugawa's decision to commit seppuku. I could ask the Indians to do it- or we could just get the Furs ourselves. No need to trade for them that way.

    I'm 6 turns in, got the Japanese city on our continent and the one on the Bath island, and a few in their homeland. I shouldn't have much trouble dealing with those, but the one city he has on formerly-Chinese island to our Northeast... might be a bit of a pain to get transports to take some units to that island to deal with that. Probably can't get it done in my set, even if I can manage to take everything on their continent.
     
  2. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    Spoiler :
    1410 AD (Pre-Flight):
    -I want to investigate Kohlapur to see how long it will be until India finishes UniSuff. I can’t do that without knowing where it is, so I trade World Maps with India. The Map reveals most of the other continent and its nearby islands, with the exception of part of Japan. Kohlapur is near India’s border with Mongolia. There’s also apparently a huge, salty lake on the part of the continent where the borders of India, Japan, and Mongolia come together.
    -Investigate Kohlapur for 108 gold. It’s 17 turns away from Universal Suffrage. I’d say we’re good on that front.
    -I mostly just fortify the military units in place and have workers build railroads.
    -Found Einsstadt and Zweistadt in two holes on the coast near Neu-Osloh.
    -Not much point in building Explorers in our ex-Mongol cities. Switch Choybalsan and Frankfurt to Harbors.

    IBT:
    -The Privateers off the coast of Choyr move around. Judging by movement of Indian ships between their movements, I’m guessing at least some of those Privateers are Indian.
    -Mongolia boots the Cavalry armies we still have in their territory.
    -Japan moves a Spear and an Archer into our territory in the far north for… some reason.
    -Bergen: Factory->Cav
    -Munchen: Panzer-> Intelligence Agency (Research Lab prebuild)
    -Catan: Panzer->Panzer
    -Goldstadt: Panzer->Panzer
    -Mongolia starts Smith’s and Magellan’s, India starts Magellan’s

    1415 AD (Turn 1):
    -Rush a Library in Pusan to try to lower the flip chance a bit.
    -While I’m rushing things, Rush harbors in Einsstadt and Zweistadt and Aqueducts in Reading and Liverpool (both at size 6 and about to grow)

    IBT:
    -Japan declares war on us! Well, I wasn’t expecting that. I also wasn’t expecting that Spear to take advantage of the ROP we apparently had with them to walk right next to Trondheim before declaring war, then take the undefended city without a fight- and the Forbidden Palace, Military Academy, and the Mausoleum with it. I probably should have done something to prevent that… at least they didn’t take Oasenstadt, which they just as easily could have!
    -The Archer dies to the Infantry defending Alesund. (1-0)
    -…aaaand all our core cities riot from losing the Furs Japan was exporting to us, and the Wines in Trondheim, apparently the only sources we had that we weren’t exporting. Great…
    -Pusan: Library->Worker
    -Liverpool: Aqueduct->Harbor
    -Walstadt: Factory->Commercial Dock
    -Reading: Aqueduct->Harbor
    -Hareid, despite rioting, still somehow manages to complete a University. Tell it to build a Panzer.
    -Ipswich: Harbor->Library
    -Berwick: Harbor->Library
    -Pulverstadt: Artillery->Artillery
    -Bonn: Harbor-> Aqueduct
    -Einsstadt: Harbor->Library
    -Zweistadt: Harbor->Library

    1420 AD (Turn 2):
    -First things first: I bombard Trondheim with Artillery, then send a vPanzer to kill the now 1-HP Spearman and recapture the city. (2-0) I tell it to get to work on re-building the Forbidden Palace.
    -Load up 4 Panzers into the empty Panzerarmee and send it towards Sapporo.
    -Trade Mongolia Wines, Dyes, Silks, 117 gold, and our World Map for Furs, then pay them another 264 gold for an RoP. I then send a bunch of Cavalry and Infantry, some in armies, towards Japan’s mainland, and towards Hakodate, their city on the island that we mostly took from the Mongols. They must pay.

    IBT:
    -A bunch of Japanese units head North. I’d hazard a guess they’re heading towards Choybalsan, which isn’t defended.
    -All our cities stop rioting, a few start celebrating. Yay for War Happiness!
    -Eisenstadt: Panzer->Panzer
    -Neu-Osloh: Police Station->Military Academy (Research Lab Prebuild)
    -Exeter: Settler->Worker
    -Weizenheim: Artillery->Artillery
    -Jungelstadt: Courthouse->Library

    1425 AD (Turn 3):
    -Panzerarmee kills 2 vSpears and a vLBM in Sapporo, sinks a boat, captures the city (5-0)
    -Richthofen’s Mounted Brigade heads out of Pusan to kill 3 of the vSamurai it saw heading North, and a vCav kills another and promotes to elite (9-0). Farther south, Hengest Warwick kills a vPike and a vWarrior and captures a worker (11-0), and a vSam takes out an eCav and a vCav before finally dying to a vCav (12-2).
    -Near Satsuma: Hengest Ipswich kills a vPike, an rSpear, and 2 vArchers, Barbarossa Liverpool kills a 3/4 Archer, and Richthofen 2 captures a worker (17-2). Some mountains are slowing me down…
    @Hakodate: 2 eCavs kill 2 rSpears, sink a boat, capture the city (19-2).
    -Found Dreistadt in one of tjs’s R3 spots -> Courthouse

    IBT:
    -A Japanese vArcher brings down one of our eCavs to 1HP, just low enough for it to be killed by a vPike. (20-3). I also see some units passing near Satsuma and a lone vSam reaches the Forest outside Choybalsan.
    -Research Flight, hit the Modern Age. I shed a tear for the now-obsolete Colossus. Our free tech is Fission, so I can’t set anything to build Research Labs. I set research to Computers and turn science down to 0%, since we’ll get it for free with ToE.
    -Catan: Panzer->Panzer
    -Goldstadt: Panzer->Airport
    -Bananenbucht: Panzer->Airport

    1430 AD (Turn 4):
    -Switch Kolossusstadt from Palace to UN- I don’t intend to build either one of them, but just in case I forget to switch it to SETI after building ToE, I’d rather accidentally build the UN in Kolossusstadt than accidentally build the Palace there.
    -We have 3 Uranium sources, all in the Southeast of what used to be England: One under Cambridge, one outside Tannenbaumdorf, and one outside Jorckflussmund. Off of our continent, there seems to only be 3 sources of Uranium in the world, 2 under India’s control (one on the island off our coast, one right outside Delhi), and 1 that I can see in Japan (somewhat amusingly, it’s right outside of the city of Nagasaki).
    -Richthofen I rides up and kills the vSam outside Choybalsan (21-3).
    @Satsuma: Barbarossa Liverpool kills a vPike and 2 rPikes, captures the city (24-3).
    -Clean up outside the city: 2nd Trondheim Troopers (Inf army) kills a vPike, vCav kills vArcher, Hengest Warwick kills 2 rSpears + vArcher, eKnight kills vArcher, Hengest Ipswich kills rSpear + vArcher, Richthofen II kills vLBM (33-3).

    IBT:
    -Complete Theory of Evolution, take Computers and Miniaturization as our free techs. Start research on Rocketry. Due in 6 at 100% science, +109 gpt.
    -I switch Kolossusstadt to SETI and Eisenstadt to a Research lab- I don’t bother switching anything else to a research lab before the IBT is done- all of our core cities that will build something else in one turn are building a different important building.
    -Oasenstadt: ToE-> Research Lab
    -Bergen: Cav->Airport
    -Kolossusstadt: SETI->Offshore Platform
    -Oxford: Worker->Worker
    -Aarhus: Commerical Dock->Offshore Platform
    -Eisenstadt: Research Lab->Panzer
    -Wilhelmshaven: Police Station->Offshore Platform
    -Brandenburg: Police Station->Research Lab
    -Bath: Library->Airport
    -Pusan’s borders expand, substantially dropping its flipping chance (according to MapStat)

    1435 AD (Turn 5):
    -Switch Konigsberg from Uni Suff to the Internet, due in 9 turns, switch a bunch of other core cities to Research Labs.
    -SETI’s boost doesn’t get Rocketry’s research time down to 5 at 100%, but does let me finish it in 6 at 90%.
    -1st Trondheim Troopers (Inf Army) kills that vPike that killed a Cav of ours two turns ago (34-3).
    @Tokyo: Richthofen II kills 2 vSams and an rPike, captures the city (37-3).
    -Outside: eKnight kills vLBM, vCav kills vLBM, Hengest Warwick kills 2 vLBM’s (41-3). Going after those brought it close to Kyoto, so I have Hengest Warwick kill one of the Samurai inside the city. Hengest Ipswich kills another Samurai in Kyoto (43-3).
    -Rush a few Libraries and Harbors, and an Aqueduct in Bonn.

    IBT:
    -Japan unloads an LBM outside of Tokyo, and captures two of their ex-workers in the middle of Mongolia.
    -York: Market->
    -Pusan: Worker->Worker
    -Choybalsan: Library->Harbor
    -Hamburg: Factory->Offshore Platform
    -Tosontsegel: Library->Harbor
    -Munchen: Research Lab->Airport
    -Catan: Research Lab->Airport
    -Neu-Osloh: Research Lab->Panzer
    -Goldstadt: Research Lab->Airport
    -Reading: Harbor->Wealth
    -Choyr: Harbor->Library
    -Karasjok: Settler->Settler
    -Bremen: Settler->Settler
    -Bonn: Aqueduct->Library
    -Frankfurt: Harbor->Library

    1440 AD (Turn 6):
    -One of our deals with India ran out and we’re now running low on cash. Since Mongolia just got Medicine, I decide to see what India will offer for it. Answer: 101 gpt and 2 gold. I accept.
    -1st and 2nd Trondheim kill the Japanese vSpear and vArcher that took the workers (45-3). Barbarossa Liverpool kills another vSpear and vArcher and takes the workers back (47-3).
    -eKnight kills the vLBM outside Kyoto (48-3), vCav kills vLBM between Tokyo and Kyoto (49-3).
    @Kyoto: Hengest Ipswich kills 2 vSamurai, captures the city (51-3). The capital moves to Kagoshima, to the Northwest.
    @Kagoshima: Hengest Warwick kills 2 vSamurai, Hengest Ipswich kills an rPike and captures the city (54-3). The capital moves to Nagoya, to the Southeast of Kyoto.
    -Found Vierstadt in the final R3 spot on tjs’s dotmap.

    IBT:
    -Oasenstadt: Research Lab->Panzer
    -Dover: Settler-> Worker
    -Eisenstadt: Panzer->Panzer
    -Bananenbucht: Research Lab-> Airport
    -Manpo: Worker->Worker
    -Gloucester: Settler->Settler
    -Weizenheim: Research Lab->Airport
    -Hannover: Settler->Settler

    1445 AD (Turn 7):
    -I appear to be a bit overextended and can’t do much attacking or defend my recent conquests until the armies heal- luckily, Japan doesn’t seem to have any kind of offensive capabilities at all right now. I sink two Caravels with a Destroyer and a Battleship. (56-3)
    -Found, in various locations in ex-England, Funfstadt, Sechsstadt, Siebenstadt, and Achtstadt.

    IBT:
    -Kyoto flips back to Japan. At least I didn’t have any units in it…
    -Bergen: Airport->Bomber
    -Pusan: Worker->Worker
    -Munchen: Airport->Bomber
    -Catan: Airport->Bomber
    -Neu-Osloh: Panzer->Panzer
    -Goldstadt: Airport->Bomber
    -Fischberg: Police Station->Offshore Platform
    -Brandenburg: Research Lab->Airport

    1450 AD (Turn 8):
    -Richthofen I rides into Kyoto, kills an rSamurai and retakes the city. Apparently somebody is selling Tokugawa Iron (57-3).
    @Nagoya: Barbarossa Liverpool kills a vSam and an rPike, eCav kills rPike and takes the city (60-3). Another Caravel is sunk in the harbor. The capital moves to Shimonoseki, in the west of Japan.
    -Still possessing 2 movement points, Barbarossa Liverpool heads into the fog southwest of Nagoya and finds another city, Edo, there. It kills a vSam defending the city (61-3).
    -Rush an Airport in no-longer-resisting Satsuma.

    IBT:
    -Oasenstadt: Panzer->Airport
    -Nottingham: Settler->Worker
    -Satsuma: Airport->Worker
    -Eisenstadt: Panzer->Panzer
    -Pyongsong: Worker->Worker
    -Bananenbucht: Airport->Mech Infantry

    1455 AD (Turn 9):
    @Edo: Barbarossa Liverpool kills rPike, takes city (62-3).
    -Richthofen I heads into the fog and kidnaps a worker near the city of Izumo
    -Start airlifting Panzers to Satsuma.

    IBT:
    -Kyoto flips back to Japan again. Oh for the love of…
    -Canterbury: Worker->Worker
    -Warwick: Settler->Settler
    -Liverpool: Harbor->Library
    -Munchen: Bomber->Bomber
    -Catan: Bomber->Bomber
    -Neu-Osloh: Panzer->Panzer
    -Goldstadt: Bomber->Bomber
    -Odense: University->Airport
    -Leicester: Worker->Worker
    -Weizenheim: Airport->Bomber
    -Brandenburg: Airport->Bomber
    -Stuttgart: Harbor->Library
    -The Mongols finish Smith’s in Ta-Tu, which is pretty close to Pusan. Would be an attractive target if we ever ended up at war with the Mongols again…

    1460 AD (Turn 10):
    -Japan is finally willing to talk peace. It is too late for that, Tokugawa.
    -vCav kills rSamurai, captures Kyoto, again… (63-3)
    @Osaka: 1st Trondheim kills rSamurai, Hengest Warwick kills rPike and rLBM, the city is ours, and with it, some Furs and Oil (66-3).
    @Izumo: Richthofen 1 kills vSam and vPike, capture the city, some workers, and a Trebuchet (68-3).
    -Bombard Nara with a Cruiser and a Battleship, knocking an rPike down to 1 HP- Hengest Ipswich then kills a 3/3 Pike and that 1/3 Pike and takes the city, and a trebuchet (70-3).
    -Capture some undefended Japanese workers to the South of Izumo.
    -Found Neunstadt and Zehnstadt in gaps in English territory.
    -I notice another deal with India ran out last turn. Luckily, I can turn science down to 40%, and Rocketry is still due in 1. Still, we could use more gold, so I decide to see what India and Mongolia will trade for Scientific Method. Mongolia will give 166 gpt, a World Map, and either Economics or Navigation. India will give 422 gold, 186 gpt, and a World Map. I decide to leave these deals to the next player.



    Hand-off notes:

    -As mentioned above, India and Mongolia are both willing to give up quite a bit of gold for Scientific Method. I didn't check what they'd give for Combustion- I'd much rather trade them Sci Meth than Combustion right now.
    -If we want to finish off Japan, we should probably rush a Transport in some Northern city right about now- the cities on Japan's mainland should fall in one, two turns tops.
    -The Internet is close to completion. Is it about time we start pre-building for the Apollo Program and for SS parts?
    -Trondheim is one turn away from re-building the FP. Not sure if we should re-build the Military Academy there or elsewhere, or if we should build the Intelligence Agency.
    -I accidentally moved the Cruiser more than it had movement points for, so don't be alarmed if it moves on its own next turn.

    On another note, we're almost to the end of this. After Rocketry, we need 8 more techs for Space Ship parts (Ecology, Synthetic Fibers, Space Flight, Nuclear Power, The Laser, Robotics, Superconductor, and Satellites). That's a minimum of 32 turns, but 4-turn research seems doubtful at the moment. Still, if we can manage a 5-6 turn research rate, 40-50 turns seems doable. Let's make that our goal: Launch into space by 1700 AD (48 turns from now) at the latest. I don't know if we can do that, but it sure would be nice.

    If we do, this might very well be my last turnset. If so, it was fun playing with you guys for the past few months. I learned a lot, and had fun spending virtually all of 4 out of 5 of my turnsets fighting the English, Vikings, or Japanese. :lol:
     

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  3. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Wow, I expected the lone Indian War Elephant to do such kind of damage (that's why I blocked his access to our rail network with a Cav), but never expected the Japanese to run amok?!
    Do we need Navigation or Economics? We could extort one of them from the Japanese, before we extinguish them... If not, I would say: don't bother...

    There's at least one good thing in the Japanese sneak attack: our happiness problems should be over now. Furs and gems are now securely in our hands, and we can even think about keeping the Japanese alive as an OCC on that island for the rest of the game and enjoy eternal war happiness. (I hope, flipped cities don't count as lost cities in terms of war weariness?! Did you notice any drop in happiness, when Kyoto flipped repeatedly?)

    (Hey, and leave some for me!! Looks like I'm the only one in this SG, who doesn't get to ride in a Panzer... :gripe:)


    Don't worry: we'll get to 4-turn research soon. When Trondheim gets back its FP, library, university and research lab, it'll contribute quite a bit, and the Internet should also make itself felt. The only field that still needs a bit improvement: our science farms. (Which up to now are still "non-existing". What happened? I think with enough scientists we could have gotten Rocketry in 5?!) The next player should make a concentrated effort to get our farm land irrigated and settled asap, and then join a worker/slave or two, to get the growth started. We are quite late in that regard.


    I don't think, we need that many Airports. What for? Our bombers will never meet any significant number of enemy fighters or flaks in this game, so veteran bombers are not needed. (Regular do just as much damage...) And for teleporting units, it is much cheaper to use a worker for 10 shields than an Airport for 160 shields plus maintenance. (Ok, we are militaristic, so it's half-priced, but anyway...) Basically in my games I never build airports (only in multi-player, when real airfights can be expected, so that veteran air units make sense.)
     
  4. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    I didn't immediately notice any flip-related unhappiness, but there might have been some that I didn't see.

    Who is up next, anyway?
     
  5. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    1. Lanzelot
    2. Elephantium
    3. Choxorn --> just played
    4. MrRandomGuy --> up
    5. tjs281 --> on deck
    6. CommandoBob (MIA?)
     
  6. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone cold fish

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    Where is everyone? All busy getting their teeth into C:BE, or what? (Not me, because my laptop can't take the heat)

    I suppose I could take the next set if MRG doesn't show up, but we already skipped CommandoBob and Elephantium recently, so if either of them want to jump back in, I would have no objection to waiting a little longer...

    Besides, I'm currently busy ensuring the world domination of the ... umm .. weather-wise and green-fingered Dutch... ;)

    EDIT:
    Since half our team appears to have gone AWOL, I have DL'd the savegame -- will post a plan shortly, once I've had a look at it. Not that there's really much left to plan at this stage -- build our ResLabs, Offshore Rigs, Wonders, and Farms, and beeline to all the Spaceship techs while prebuilding Ship-parts. And if anyone tries to stop us, discourage them with a good kick in the nadgers so they don't try it again.

    (Found a good Douglas Adams line in Wikiquote today: "A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.'")
     
  7. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Well, I guess we consider it to be:

    1. Lanzelot --> on deck
    2. Elephantium
    3. Choxorn --> just played
    4. MrRandomGuy (MIA)
    5. tjs281 --> up
    6. CommandoBob (MIA)
     
  8. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    Looking at their profiles, C-Bob hasn't been online in 3 weeks and hasn't posted in 2 months, MrRandomGuy hasn't been online in one week and hasn't posted in 1 month.

    Hey, Elephantium, you said to skip you before my set, will you be available again soon?
     
  9. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I'm pretty much actively lurking at this point.
     
  10. MrRandomGuy

    MrRandomGuy Warlord

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    Oh wow.

    I thought that my prior play was going to be my last one. I have no idea why I'm up now and am quite confused with the turn order.

    I'm using a different computer at the moment - my other one is out of commission - and don't quite have the time to hunt for where I went to install the game. Like Elph I'm also lurking at this point. I'll let you guys know when I've got the game up and running if I manage to do so before the SG is over.
     
  11. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone cold fish

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    Sorry I've left it a couple of days. I had a look at the savegame in CivAssist (on Monday) and then Conquests itself (today), and my plan basically stands, apart from building ResLabs, which we've already done.

    Regarding the Japs:

    Since Choxorn has done such a sterling job of grabbing most of their mainland cities in Mongindapan, and since our armies are poised to take the last 3 within the next 1-2T, I'm inclined to simply finish the job -- but to leave them with Matsuyama, and not bother signing a PT with them. Since they were the ones who DoW'd us, keeping a phony war going for as long as possible should also keep our WH going (right?), possibly for the remainder of the game (unless the Indians kill them)...

    I would suggest garrisoning our Japanese conquests with minimal troops: maybe 1 (Mech?)Inf in the town, with the rest of our guys fortified just outside, and/or on high-def.-bonus tiles (e.g. that nice mountain range north of Satsuma), and/or chokepoints (e.g. by Kagoshima). Don't want to lose Armies to flips, do we, especially since we lost our MilAc...?

    (BTW: shall I rebuild the MilAc in Trondheim -- once the FP is done -- or somewhere else? Neu-Osloh could build it -- and Armies -- in 6T...)

    Regarding Science:

    Rocketry is due in 1T (with Sci% dropped to 40%), so I'll go for Ecology next. It's the last 1st-tier Mod-age tech, we'll need it anyway to get to SynFib, and it's cheaper than both SpaceFlight and Nuke-Power (the other two possibilities). Plus it will get us SolPlants to use as Ship-part prebuilds, and also allow us to build MassTransit. (In solo games, I usually build MassTransits in my major polluters -- OK to do that here?) Space-Flight will be the next target after that. By the time we've got Ecology (5T, I hope?), Internet will be online (due in 4T -- barring pollution!), so that should then make Space (and later Nuke etc.) a little easier. I don't expect to be able to start research on more than two techs during my set.

    EDIT:
    Just read an old thread with lots of argument (tRicky vs. Cyc) about global warming/ pollution, and it reminded me that MassTrans doesn't affect city-improvement-pollution-points, it only reduces Pop-pollution-points. Our cities are limited to Pop12, so that's irrelevant, making MassTrans also irrelevant.
    (I was actually looking for a thread/post listing the individual Ship-part costs [Search string: "Civ3, spaceship, costs"], because I don't have that info listed in any of my cheat-sheets, but no luck there [half of the front-page hits were actually for C-IV and C-V] -- can anyone point me in the right direction, or list the costs here?)

    Regarding Town management:

    What will also help to speed up research will be optimising the farms -- Choxorn, I guess you were having too much fun Samurai-smashing :ar15: :ninja: to worry about what was going on in the meantime, back at the ranch...? ;)

    I only looked closely at a relatively small number of farms, but nearly all of those seemed to be running out of control, either working useless shield-tiles, or producing useless food excesses (e.g. 20+FPT in Pop6ers!) with no Specialists in evidence. My first job before hitting Enter will therefore be to look at each farm in detail, massage it to ~12 or ~24 FPT, turn any excess Pop into Scientists (or CivEngs if it needs a 'Duct or Harbour), and set them (all?) building Settlers/Workers rather than wealth or mil-units.

    Micromanagement, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways- OK done... :mischief:

    And rather than waste turns building the Airport in Bath, I'd rather just build an Airfield using one of those Slaves.

    Regarding Trade/ Treasury:

    We have >1800g in the bank.

    The dropped Sci% on this last turn to Rockets will bring in 400+GPT, and I would like to use some of that windfall to immediately rush some Settlers in the Pop2-3 cities to be abandoned (e.g. Cambridge, Ipswich, Berwick, Bristol). Do I have team-approval to do that?

    AND if I can get that deficit closer to zero, or even back in the black (after fiddling with the farms, and/or after Internet increases our BPT-output across the board), can I rush some more later? I'd use those Settlers to carry on filling in the holes in the (mainland) farm dotmap, and also on Badinsel (= Bath-island!).

    Or would you all rather use extra cash to upgrade Inf --> MechInf (30g per unit)?

    Or rather hold onto it to fund deficit-spending on more expensive techs? Ecology (~7800b) can only be researched in 5-6T if I use 100% Sci, at -140 GPT. Even if fiddling with the farms gets us to 0 income, 0 expense, we will not be able to acquire significantly more gold soon, unless we sell something (Oil and/or SciMeth to India? Gandhi currently has >400g in the bank, Temujin is broke -- again). I've no major objection to selling off obsolete (Wonder-)techs for GPT -- how about the rest of you?

    Prebuilds:

    I need to choose a place to (pre)build Apollo (probably using UN or Manhattan) -- at 500s, any of our high-shield core cities will be able to do it in 10T or less, so I'll need to start soon, to finish simultaneously with the acquisition of SpaceFlight. I'll also start some prebuilds for the SpaceFlight-enabled ship parts -- Engines now, Cockpit and DockingBay when Ecology comes in -- ready to be switched when we get Space.

    I'll start playing tomorrow evening.
     
  12. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    It's less "I wasn't worrying about making specialist farms" and more "I have no idea how"
     
  13. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Can you try to get Ecology down to 4 by running food deficit in some of the farms? We can then later join workers into the farms, once we are done irrigating and railing everything. BTW, please check whether all our coastal towns with a significant number of water tiles (3-4 and higher?!) already have a commercial dock.

    MilAc is always nice to have, just in case, and we don't even lose a pre-build opportunity, as the city can then afterwards use Armies as pre-builds. But Trondheim still has other stuff to catch up with, like lib&uni, so Neu-Osloh is ok, or any other city that can build 400s without too much overrun.

    Why do you want harbours in farm towns? Harbours only provifde 2-food tiles, but a farm should never work a 2-food tile. Only 3+ and the rest of the citizens work as scientists.

    Some moderate rushing of settlers is ok for me. Unit upgrades are probably not necessary. Our military should be sufficient by now, and we can always produce a few fresh units in cities that are not working on the space ship. We can keep the units and upgrade later, in case another major war with the Mongols breaks out. But I guess the probability for that is pretty low.

    Yes, sell anything except our silverware... ;) We need lots of cash now, if we want to keep up the science rate. BTW: always go 100%, even if it looks like we can't do a tech in 4 turns, and 90% would be sufficient for 5 turns. It can be that during the next 3-4 turns our farms grow, another university gets finished here or there and in the end we will still be able to cut the time down to 4 turns. But we won't be able to do this anymore, if we started with only 90% in the first 1-2 turns! If we can't get it done in 4 turns, we can still drop science to 10-20% in the last turn and refill our pockets that way.
     
  14. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone cold fish

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    I'll see what I can do. Depending on how many farms need MM (all of them? :cry: ), I may not get to play more than a couple of turns tonight...
    Will do -- thanks for reminding me.
    I'd like to have it back for the improved Army A/D-bonus, even if for no other reason
    Damn, of course, it had slipped my mind that all the culture-buildings in T'heim got bombed, not just the FP/MilAc. OK, yes, Lib+Uni = much more important, but once the FP is back up, we should be able to do those in about 3T (T'heim is already knocking out >25 SPT). On a related note -- losing the FP would have halved our OCN, so getting it back up should also seriously improve the income/ BPT/ SPT from our 2nd- and 3rd-ring cities again.
    Not in every coastal farm*, but certainly in those that have a workable fish, which will then give us 4FPT -- especially any on Tundra, because then instead of a Pop1 town with 1 Scientist, we can have a Pop3 town with 2 Scientists. I realise that this would also cost us 1GPT per Harbour, but if we get 3 more BPT, is that not worth it? (And if we can still build Smiths, all Harbours, Markets and Banks -- and CommDocks? -- would become maintenance-free anyway. Need to check that.)
    *
    Spoiler :
    With hindsight, this is something (else!) I did wrong in the Chinese Monarch game I just finished. I built Harbours everywhere, trying to get all coastal farms to Pop6. But I realised later on (as a result of discussion with Mike Hussey) that doing so was not necessary/ useful, since even at Pop6, most could still only run 1 Scientist. Mind you, it did good things for my total Pop numbers (I had well over 90% of the world Pop when I finally reached the 66% land-limit!)

    Okey-doke
    It would be even lower if we upgraded our Infs (A=6) to MechInfs (A=12)... ;) But yeah, we should still be able to kick butt with our MilAc-boosted Cav- and Panzer-Armies for now, at least until Temujin (or Gandhi, you never know) gets Tanks in large numbers.
    Right now I can sell Oil to Gandhi, which I'm inclined to do because his Badinsel-town (can't remember the name) only needs 1 border-pop to get some in his borders. As far as techs go, I can sell SciMeth or Combustion -- there's no point selling both, since only Gandhi's in a position to buy, but even selling only one of them will still leave the Indians+Mongols 6 techs from MotorTransp on the beeline, and 7-8 if either of them go for Flight/AmphibWar on the way. We should be on our way to AC by then...
    Good tip, thanks.
     
  15. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone cold fish

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    Easy-peasy:
    1. Plant a city (ideally on a 0-1f tile, such as Hills, Desert or Tundra)
    2. Clear, road/rail and irrigate all the surrounding flatland tiles that can give >2f once improved
    3. Max. out the population ASAP
    4. Convert as much excess FPT into Specialists as possible
    That's about all there is to it. Even without food-bonuses, a Pop6 town working 3 r+iGrass (= 3*4 + 2 = 14FPT) can support 3 Specialists, and a Pop12er working 6 r+iGrass (= 6*4 +2 = 26FPT) can support 6 Specialists -- while still making +2FPT for filling an empty food-box, and/or spinning out more Workers and Settlers, and/or regrowth after whipping/ conscription. Or you can halt growth at Pop5 or Pop11 for the same no. of Specialists per town/city and 0FPT (to reduce MM, but also gold/beakers), and just churn out (Reg) mil-units, or arty.

    For a Monarchical/Republican Conq./Dom., especially if you've already got all the techs you need to win, you might choose to use Taxmen to raise cash (2GPT per Taxman) for rushing units/ city-improvements, or paying for MAs -- but for our game, we want Scientists (BPT). And right now, Lanzelot is advising me to use a Sci:Citizen ratio of 2:1 or 7:5 (or more) instead of ~1:1, for negative FPT, but more BPT per town (presumably temporarily). I'll need to remember to reset those towns back to positive FPT on the turn(s) before they starve, but CivAssist will help with that...

    Re. city-improvements in 1s-farms. Obviously, these will take a long time to build, at least until you get RepParts and can convert excess FPT --> 2SPT per CivEng. Also, at low Tax% (0-20%), science/ gold multiplier-effects of the relevant buildings are nearly always ineffective, so they're not usually worth the time/cost, unless for their Culture/ Happiness effects (depends on difficulty/ gov-type/ VC-aim). Lastly, any maintenance-requiring building in a 90% corrupt farm will almost always be a net drain on treasury, so especially in a high-Sci% game, it's usually not worth building more than one cheap (<100s, 1GPT) improvement per farm at most -- and if no suchimprovements would be useful, don't build any. Here are some examples of when farm-improvements might be useful:
    • Walls in small border towns (<Pop6), to improve garrison D-values (10-20s, 0 GPT)
    • Libs for cheap, fast Cultural expansion of a Sci-Civ (40s, 1 GPT)
    • Markets in Pop7+ farms if low on Luxes (e.g. 3-4 instead of 5-6) (100s, 1GPT -- or 0GPT with Smiths)
    • Harbours in (Tundra-)farms that can work a Fish for 4FPT instead of 3FPT, supporting another Specialist (20-40s, 1 GPT)
    • Under Republic, a 'Duct will get a dry farm to Pop7-12 => 1.5x free-unit support, compared to having those citizens divided between two smaller (<Pop6) towns (2*1 vs. 3 free units) (50-100s, 1GPT)
     
  16. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    In a current spaceship game of mine, I'm simply setting all the farm towns/cities to Wealth. The towns don't need any buildings, and I don't need any more military, workers or settlers as I already own almost 66% of the world and don't have any significant opponent anymore. So Wealth is the best they can do, as it helps with covering the deficit. (I have some 70-80 farm towns, so that's an extra 70-80 gold per turn, nothing to be sneezed at...) I think the situation is quite similar in our game here.

    Edit: except that we do need a few more settlers here, for which I would use those towns with a food bonus so that they can grow back quickly.
     
  17. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    What do you think about making harbors in coastal farms with fish or whales in the radius?
     
  18. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    In these cases they may be worthwhile! The extra food can be enough to support an extra specialist. However, if we need to use a civil engineer for a long time in order to get the harbour, then the food lost by the CivEng will probably be more than the food gained by the harbour... ;) I would construct the harbour (or any building a farm town may need, for that matter) by disbanding obsolete units. Otherwise the break-even-point will come long after the game ended... Farm towns need to grow quickly and then be operable for a long time in order to really make a difference. This can be seen very well in the current game: we are in the modern age and still struggling with 4-turn research. Usually in a science game I reach 4-turn research somewhere in the middle of the middle age and then never let go of it again for the rest of the game. (Ok, in my current game on Monarch I needed 5 turns for Atomic Theory, because I did it before some cheaper ones (as I wanted the Hoover Dam) and had a luxury shortage at that time caused by wars and disrupted trade routes.)
     
  19. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    Hey, tjs, how's the turnset coming along?
     
  20. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone cold fish

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    Sorry guys, taking a bit longer than I expected -- I didn't get to play when I thought I would, and I'm still only about half-way through.

    The good news is that I've got us back into positive GPT at 100% Sci by selling SciMeth and later AtomicTheory to the Indians, in exchange for (in total) Navi, Economics, their entire treasury (about 600g altogether), >100GPT per tech, Ivory and Incense (Gandhi cancelled an existing Lux-deal, but he didn't want our Oil, so I sold AtomThe instead). The Indians then sold/gifted those techs on to the Mongols, but I'm not sure what they got in exchange, since the Mongols were and still are broke (maybe Temujin threatened them?).

    I ran all the farms that had food stored at negative FPT, and the others at 0FPT, and have just this turn (with the building of Internet last IBT -- yay!) managed to get Ecol down to 4T (will complete this next IBT, although our windfall will be quite small -- only ~200g). Hopefully I will now be able to (re)fill the farm food-boxes and grow the farms to their maximum beaker-potential (I'm assuming it's generally better to grow farms at slightly positive FPT and lots of Scientists/BPT, rather than putting all citizens to work, and 0BPT?)

    I've founded 10 or 12 new farms so far on our home continent, but there are still plenty of tiles that need clearing/ roading/ irrigation, so at this stage large numbers of Slaves are still needed for terrain-improvements (rather than farm-joins). I also noticed that some of the ex-English cities still had >1 English inhabitant, so those towns are currently building Settlers and/or Slaves to found/improve/expand more farms. I would like to rush-build lots more Settlers using forest-chops followed by a cash-rush (our treasury is currrently around 3000g). But some of the terrain-clearance chops will need to be well-timed to avoid wasting forest-shields.

    There are also lots of potential farm-sites on Bad-Insel and ex-Japan, but the larger captured cities there are still partly in resistance (it's nearly over, but not quite), so I'm not yet able to rush Settlers in them (and there aren't really enough Workers over there for forest-chopping anyway). And I can't airlift Settlers, so I'll need to ship them over instead -- which means I need to clear out the (Mongol?) Privateers...
     

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