tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Too late to tell me that -- I already did...
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Preturn: Went through the city list quickly and made the handful of changes I mentioned earlier: optimized a few towns for food, switched a few scientists to policemen, started one or two police stations, where I thought it would help.
Activate the Galleons...
Sell India Refining for 132gpt, 110g and Facism.
By the time we become modern, we'll be swimming in gold.
T263, 1365 AD:
The Mongols switch Universal Suffrage from Almarikh to Pusan (which had so far been building Bach's Cathedral - obviously it has already more shields in the bin than Almarikh).
Our troops capture Atlay, generating an MGL in the process! One vCav lost.
The very first town I found this turnset gets the name suggestion: "Heidelburg" !
Lower science to 80%.
Don't want to give the Indians any reason for stupid ideas, so I move a few Infs up there into the towns that are within reach of that War Elephant. (One of that towns coincidentally features our only connected oil resource...
)
Disband a number of Cavs in towns where we can speed up some project.
T264, 1370 AD:
Combustion done, Mass Production in 4 at 80%.
Pollution hits Oasenstadt, which had nearly no pollution to speak of!!![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
The artillery is 4s short, and I disbanded the Cav for nothing!!
T265, 1375 AD:
Nada
T266, 1380 AD:
More than half a dozen Mongol Cavs attack our Inf on mountain, only one dies, the rest retreat!
Oasenstadt starts ToE!
Fighting on that NW-Island produces another MGL.
T267, 1385 AD:
About a dozen Cavs run their heads against our mountain stronghold at Tosontsengel, this time not many retreat... 5 Infs are promoted elite.
We capture Uliastay on the NW-Island. No losses.
Science lowered to 60%. For some reason all cities are unhappy and I have to raise lux to 10%, but the people still say "100% it's too crowded", so it can't be war weariness?!?
T268, 1390 AD:
Sell India Rubber for 57gpt. Where do they get all that gold from?!?
Mass Production finished. MT in 4 at 80%.
Our Cav Armies capture Tosontsengel on the Mongol mainland. No losses.
Continued:
T269, 1395 AD:
Pusan is discovered, 7 tiles from Tosontsengel. I take the risk and set Königsberg on USuff.
The Mongols now have Infantry here and there, but not yet in Pusan. I send all Cav Armies to Pusan, hoping to take it, before it get's too heavily defended.
Man'po is taken.
T270, 1400 AD:
Pusan is now protected by Inf. I attack anyway. Three Cav-Armies attack and kill three Inf, Pusan is captured!
Now only Kolhapur remains as threat.
Also Pusan has spices!
T271, 1405 AD:
About half a dozen Mongol Cavs attack our Cav Army in Pusan. It survives by a hair.
Neu-Osloh completes Iron Works.
Choir captured, one eCav lost.
Pyongsong captured.
Everything else is now protected by Infs and also their is a high risk we will lose Pusan this interturn. As our objectives are achieved, USuff busted and spices captured, I make peace (after killing a few more stray units). This also allows us to ship the spices home and lower lux tax back to 10%.
Science lowered to 50%.
T272, 1410 AD:
Motorized Transportation finished, Flight in 4 at 100%.
The first Panzer roll off the assembly line...
The Monols start USuff, the Indians Smith's Trading Company.
Handover notes:
Activate the Galleons...
Sell India Refining for 132gpt, 110g and Facism.
By the time we become modern, we'll be swimming in gold.
T263, 1365 AD:
The Mongols switch Universal Suffrage from Almarikh to Pusan (which had so far been building Bach's Cathedral - obviously it has already more shields in the bin than Almarikh).
Our troops capture Atlay, generating an MGL in the process! One vCav lost.
The very first town I found this turnset gets the name suggestion: "Heidelburg" !
Lower science to 80%.
Don't want to give the Indians any reason for stupid ideas, so I move a few Infs up there into the towns that are within reach of that War Elephant. (One of that towns coincidentally features our only connected oil resource...
)Disband a number of Cavs in towns where we can speed up some project.
T264, 1370 AD:
Combustion done, Mass Production in 4 at 80%.
Pollution hits Oasenstadt, which had nearly no pollution to speak of!!
The artillery is 4s short, and I disbanded the Cav for nothing!!T265, 1375 AD:
Nada
T266, 1380 AD:
More than half a dozen Mongol Cavs attack our Inf on mountain, only one dies, the rest retreat!
Oasenstadt starts ToE!
Fighting on that NW-Island produces another MGL.
T267, 1385 AD:
About a dozen Cavs run their heads against our mountain stronghold at Tosontsengel, this time not many retreat... 5 Infs are promoted elite.
We capture Uliastay on the NW-Island. No losses.
Science lowered to 60%. For some reason all cities are unhappy and I have to raise lux to 10%, but the people still say "100% it's too crowded", so it can't be war weariness?!?
T268, 1390 AD:
Sell India Rubber for 57gpt. Where do they get all that gold from?!?
Mass Production finished. MT in 4 at 80%.
Our Cav Armies capture Tosontsengel on the Mongol mainland. No losses.
Continued:
T269, 1395 AD:
Pusan is discovered, 7 tiles from Tosontsengel. I take the risk and set Königsberg on USuff.
The Mongols now have Infantry here and there, but not yet in Pusan. I send all Cav Armies to Pusan, hoping to take it, before it get's too heavily defended.
Man'po is taken.
T270, 1400 AD:
Pusan is now protected by Inf. I attack anyway. Three Cav-Armies attack and kill three Inf, Pusan is captured!
Now only Kolhapur remains as threat.
Also Pusan has spices!
T271, 1405 AD:
About half a dozen Mongol Cavs attack our Cav Army in Pusan. It survives by a hair.
Neu-Osloh completes Iron Works.
Choir captured, one eCav lost.
Pyongsong captured.
Everything else is now protected by Infs and also their is a high risk we will lose Pusan this interturn. As our objectives are achieved, USuff busted and spices captured, I make peace (after killing a few more stray units). This also allows us to ship the spices home and lower lux tax back to 10%.
Science lowered to 50%.
T272, 1410 AD:
Motorized Transportation finished, Flight in 4 at 100%.
The first Panzer roll off the assembly line...
The Monols start USuff, the Indians Smith's Trading Company.
Handover notes:
- I left most units unmoved.
- Why can't I build a University in Westenburgberg??? It is greyed out in my game. Can someone please check, whether it's the same in your game? Corrupt safe?
- We have 2666g in the bank account - don't spend it all...
- Remember to finish Labs in 4 turns from now in all cities that have no wonder, factory or other high-shield stuff to build. Some may need a short-rush; can also be done interturn.
- The Mongols are pretty broke at the moment. Check once in a while, if that changes.
- Economics and Navigation are available now. India and Mongolia must both have finished a tech this turn as well and swapped. Perhaps we can get Economics and try for Smith's? But I don't know, which town we can use, as Labs are now more important. And also it will most probably fall in the USuff cascade.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Wait what?! IIRC, when an AI builds a Wonder I was after (but am still more than 1T from finishing), my Wonder-shields get automatically pushed into a different -- usually useless and wasteful -- build on that same IBT, whether I like it or not. The Indians built Bachs on the IBT (i.e. their 'turn') after my 9th movement turn, so I don't understand how the Mongols could wait until this 10th IBT to switch UniSuff from Almarikh to Pusan? I thought they'd already lost/wasted the Pusan shields? Is the AI actually programmed to use e.g. a Palace-build to temporarily store shields on a missed Wonder?
Still, on the bright side, even if we still don't know exactly where Pusan is, being an ex-Korean (capital?) city, it should at least be more accessible from Tosontsengel than Almarikh would have been...
Yay!
You spelled it as 'Heidelberg' in the margin...
No, as human player you still have the following turn to switch the already built wonder to something different.
This however confuses me a bit, too. An attempt at explanation: as the human player gets the chance to save his shields, when control gets back to him, perhaps the AI is granted that chance as well? And perhaps the Mongols are located before the Indians in the move order? Then if the Indians complete Bach's in the 9th interturn, the first time that control goes back to the Mongols would be the 10th interturn. So the shields are preserved until that point of time, when the Mongols have their "next turn".
The Korean capital is/was Seoul. We can see it on the map, because we once built an embassy in Korea...
But yep. Our beachhead has now been sufficiently secured, so starting this turn I can spare a Cav Army for scouting (while shipping more reinforcements into Tosontsengel for the next push). If I discover Pusan within striking distance, I will immediately set one of our best producers on the USuff.
You spelled it as 'Heidelberg' in the margin...
Exactly. That's what makes me so mad. How can those boneheaded developers at Firaxis misspell the name of the most beautiful town on earth so badly? And every time I play as the Germans, they spring it right into my face!
And yesterday it was virtually the very first action I did when starting this turnset, and here we go again! 
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Deep breaths Lanzelot, deep breaths .... In ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ... 5 ... Ouuut ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ... 5 ... Mr.Adrenalin is not your friend
I assume the city names are stored in the .biq, rather than a simple textfile you could edit?
Just for a little perspective, 'The Mumbles' is such a well-known English town, that the first time I ever heard of it was in my first-ever Conquests game (Regent, English, Space-walkover). Just out of curiosity, I looked it up in Wikipedia: turns out it's actually in Wales (i.e. NOT England -- and don't ever make that mistake while visiting either country), and spelt 'Y Mwmbwls' by the locals...
Ah well, that's Americans for you...
Let's get the roster on the latest page:
1. Lanzelot --> just played
2. Elephantium --> up
3. Choxorn --> on deck
4. MrRandomGuy
5. tjs281
6. CommandoBob (MIA?)
1. Lanzelot --> just played
2. Elephantium --> up
3. Choxorn --> on deck
4. MrRandomGuy
5. tjs281
6. CommandoBob (MIA?)
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Please skip me - that puts Choxorn up.
Looks like it's getting close to the weekend and no word from anyone else, so I guess this is a got it, I'll play it over the weekend.
I've been busy recently and I'm not fully caught up on the current situation, can Lanzelot and tjs briefly explain it to me and tell me what sort of things I should be doing in my turnset?
I've been busy recently and I'm not fully caught up on the current situation, can Lanzelot and tjs briefly explain it to me and tell me what sort of things I should be doing in my turnset?
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
The only(!) really major thing is managing our Wonder-(pre)builds.
You're going to get Flight and advance to the Modern Age this turnset (in 4T time). You need to be sure that the ToE will be built that same IBT (in O'stadt), and pick Comps (if you didn't get it as your new-era tech) and Mini as your 2 ToE-techs. As soon as you've done that, and before you pick our next 'lightbulb-investment' tech-target, use 'What's the big picture?' to go to the F6-screen, then go from there to the Domestic Advisor, and immediately switch the Palace-prebuild in K'stadt to SETI. Then you can go back to the F6-screen, pick the next tech, and allow the game to cycle through the growth/ production phases for the rest of our cities (K'stadt was founded second, so it should then complete SETI -- on the same IBT that we lose the Colossus trade-bonus).
(BTW, if you are lucky enough get Comps as your new-era tech, I would suggest taking Fission as the second ToE-tech, so we can find out where the Uranium is and get started on the UN -- or at least use it as another prebuild -- but Rockets for a jump-start on the Space-branch is also very tempting...)
The UniSuff (pre)build in K'berg is intended to become TheInternet, but the timing is slightly less urgent than for ToE/SETI (which should be completed on the same IBT), since we can easily (2-3T) hand-build ResLabs in our core cities for now (you can actually start prebuilding them, using Inf or Panzer, 1-2T before you get Flight/ Comps/ Mini). That said, the Indians have been building US in Kolhapur for more than 20T now, so they are probably quite close to finishing it. So you might want to investigate Kolhapur to double-check exactly when they will get it done (it's not like we're short of cash!)
If it's going to take >5T, you don't need to worry, since you'll be able to switch our US-build to Internet before then. But if the Indians will finish US in ≤4T from now, then you will either need to capture Kohlapur (which -- if you can even reach it -- will seriously annoy them, and probably also bust our trading-rep), or buy Economics from them (or the Mongols), and go to Internet via AdamSmiths instead (which no-one has a good start on yet, including us -- we should only have around 260s in the prebuild so far).I don't think I'm too fussed about having Smiths itself -- it would save us our Market-maintenance (i.e. ~30-40GPT?), but not much more than that, since we haven't built (m)any Banks yet (or have we...?).
EDIT:
Scratch that last. Just discovered in my solo game that Smiths appears to pay for Harbours as well, which I don't remember ever noticing before. So Smiths might indeed be useful, not only to support our core cities, but also to pay for our science-farm upkeep -- and would mean we could also build free Markets (using CivEng shields) to keep the Pop12 farms happy during wartime...
Apart from that, carry on founding farms on our continent (I posted a possible dotmap in my turnlog) and the Bath-Island, and churning out Panzer 'pour disencourager les autres' (and also Subs/ Destroyers/ Battleships to keep intruders away from our coasts?).
You're going to get Flight and advance to the Modern Age this turnset (in 4T time). You need to be sure that the ToE will be built that same IBT (in O'stadt), and pick Comps (if you didn't get it as your new-era tech) and Mini as your 2 ToE-techs. As soon as you've done that, and before you pick our next 'lightbulb-investment' tech-target, use 'What's the big picture?' to go to the F6-screen, then go from there to the Domestic Advisor, and immediately switch the Palace-prebuild in K'stadt to SETI. Then you can go back to the F6-screen, pick the next tech, and allow the game to cycle through the growth/ production phases for the rest of our cities (K'stadt was founded second, so it should then complete SETI -- on the same IBT that we lose the Colossus trade-bonus).
(BTW, if you are lucky enough get Comps as your new-era tech, I would suggest taking Fission as the second ToE-tech, so we can find out where the Uranium is and get started on the UN -- or at least use it as another prebuild -- but Rockets for a jump-start on the Space-branch is also very tempting...)
The UniSuff (pre)build in K'berg is intended to become TheInternet, but the timing is slightly less urgent than for ToE/SETI (which should be completed on the same IBT), since we can easily (2-3T) hand-build ResLabs in our core cities for now (you can actually start prebuilding them, using Inf or Panzer, 1-2T before you get Flight/ Comps/ Mini). That said, the Indians have been building US in Kolhapur for more than 20T now, so they are probably quite close to finishing it. So you might want to investigate Kolhapur to double-check exactly when they will get it done (it's not like we're short of cash!)
If it's going to take >5T, you don't need to worry, since you'll be able to switch our US-build to Internet before then. But if the Indians will finish US in ≤4T from now, then you will either need to capture Kohlapur (which -- if you can even reach it -- will seriously annoy them, and probably also bust our trading-rep), or buy Economics from them (or the Mongols), and go to Internet via AdamSmiths instead (which no-one has a good start on yet, including us -- we should only have around 260s in the prebuild so far).
EDIT:
Scratch that last. Just discovered in my solo game that Smiths appears to pay for Harbours as well, which I don't remember ever noticing before. So Smiths might indeed be useful, not only to support our core cities, but also to pay for our science-farm upkeep -- and would mean we could also build free Markets (using CivEng shields) to keep the Pop12 farms happy during wartime...
Apart from that, carry on founding farms on our continent (I posted a possible dotmap in my turnlog) and the Bath-Island, and churning out Panzer 'pour disencourager les autres' (and also Subs/ Destroyers/ Battleships to keep intruders away from our coasts?).
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
This may sound like a dumb question, but did you already check the build-queue? Because it's quite possible that I already queued up a Uni-build to start somewhere down the line, which would leave it unavailable as the current build. From my turnlog (Turn 9):
I don't remember for sure, but setting that build-queue myself is exactly the kind of thing I might have done in the wee hours, playing an SG as if it was a solo-game (again)
My 'thinking'
would have been that getting the city happy and further de-corrupted would then let us build the Uni much quicker (and research faster) once we got round to it -- which is technically true, but the number of turns we'd save on the Uni-build will inevitably be a lot less than the number of turns we'd need to build the other projects first. Conversely, if we build the Uni first, we'll be getting at least some extra ocean-trade-->BPT out of the city during all the turns it will take to build anything else.The CH that I was building should already have been rushed/ finished (right, Lanzelot?), so I'm guessing that the city is currently building a Market -- although I don't know if we actually need one, now that the Mongol war is over and we have an extra Lux(es)? So (Choxorn), if you deem the current build unnecessary (possible if it's a Market, almost certain if it's a PolStn), please feel free to delete the build-queue, and switch production to a Uni.
tjs282 summed it up nicely. I only want to add a bit more emphasis on this:
You should make some preparations in all core cities that have more than 50bpt so that a Panzer will finish in the same turn where you finish Flight. Then in the interturn (where you already have to switch Palace to SETI and UniSuff to Internet) also switch all those Panzer to ResearchLab. I want that research boost already on the first turn of our first Modern Age tech.
The Internet will probably finish only 7-8 turns after that. I don't think the Indians will finish the UniSuff within the next three turns, so the prebuild should be safe. But if it is not, definitely don't attack India. They are currently paying us I think more than 200gpt, if I remember correctly. We need that money in the early stage of the Modern Age to fund 100% research. Rather trade Economics for Medicine or something like that, and use Smith as a fallback prebuild. (Can always be done, after the Indians have completed UniSuff, as shields from a completed wonder stay "alive" until it is our turn again.)
Try to be conservative with our cash. We may need it for deficit research for quite some time now: at the moment techs still cost 4000-5000 beakers, but in 4 turns that will jump to 7000+... Even with SETI and ResearchLabs we'll have a hard time maintaining our 4 turn tech rate in the Modern Age.
You should make some preparations in all core cities that have more than 50bpt so that a Panzer will finish in the same turn where you finish Flight. Then in the interturn (where you already have to switch Palace to SETI and UniSuff to Internet) also switch all those Panzer to ResearchLab. I want that research boost already on the first turn of our first Modern Age tech.
The Internet will probably finish only 7-8 turns after that. I don't think the Indians will finish the UniSuff within the next three turns, so the prebuild should be safe. But if it is not, definitely don't attack India. They are currently paying us I think more than 200gpt, if I remember correctly. We need that money in the early stage of the Modern Age to fund 100% research. Rather trade Economics for Medicine or something like that, and use Smith as a fallback prebuild. (Can always be done, after the Indians have completed UniSuff, as shields from a completed wonder stay "alive" until it is our turn again.)
Try to be conservative with our cash. We may need it for deficit research for quite some time now: at the moment techs still cost 4000-5000 beakers, but in 4 turns that will jump to 7000+...
Even with SETI and ResearchLabs we'll have a hard time maintaining our 4 turn tech rate in the Modern Age.
I've never used the build-queue, so I'm not sure, but that might actually be the explanation... I'll have to check it, when I get home.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Really? Never ever? I love that function -- it helps me enormously with keeping track of my general planning (rudimentary as it has been to date) between play sessions, since I never really know how long any breaks are going to be -- could be a day, could be a week or longer (depends largely on wifey's whims...
).Anyway... If you didn't check it, then that is almost certainly the explanation. And if I've set a build-queue there, then I may well also have done it in other fringe cities... but please don't all get
at me... It shouldn't cause any major inconvenience for this SG.That's because even if a city has an active build-queue, the Domestic Advisor pop-up ("We have completed a <PROJECT> in <CITY>. What should we build next?") will still appear. If there's no queue, the 'next-build' suggestion is provided automatically by the computer; if there is a queue, then the next item in the queue will be suggested instead. The pop-up won't actually indicate whether the suggestion came from the computer or the player -- although I would hope that my suggestions would be a little more sensible than Mrs.F1's ("No, we don't need a bloody Temple/ Colosseum/ Bank in this city -- or any other city, thankyou very much. Stop asking me!").
So if anyone decides that a city needs something other than what's been queued, he'll always have the opportunity to change it as and when necessary: his choice will overwrite only that queued item, without affecting the item(s) in the next slot(s) on the list. Confirming (or overwriting) a queued build-suggestion won't take any more time than confirming (or reassigning) a computer-generated suggestion would have done. Actually, assuming
that my build-queue(s) were/ are more in line with our general objectives than the computer's suggestions would be, they might even save a little time, since (hopefully) all you'd then have to do is confirm, rather than scroll through the project-list to find the thing you really want.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
I can't be bothered to scroll back through the mists of time to find the post where you said/agreed yourself that you'd like to build it, just to make sure the AIs couldn't...
And the Mongols/Indians aren't a whole age behind us -- if I've counted right, they've done around a third(?) of the Industrial Age techs so far (including optionals, but still...). They also seem to be on surprisingly good terms with each other -- they don't seem to have fought (m)any wars, and are tech-sharing like mad (aren't they also both in the 'Asian' culture-group?). And by getting there first, we've made all those techs (even) cheaper for them to research... So I don't think we should be getting too complacent about their backwardness quite yet.
Regarding the UN though: I'm not that fussed about building it for (preventing) a Diplo vic, but it's worth 1000s, so could certainly be a useful prebuild for e.g. Apollo (500s), or one of the more expensive Spaceship parts (e.g. SSExtCasing, which costs 640s, IIRC). Same applies to Manhattan, come to that (800s). Given that
- the AIs will build UniSuff, Magellan and Smiths if we let them, and
- we haven't built Banks+StockExes (-->WallStreet), and
- we skipped Sanitation (/Hospitals-->BattleMed) and
- we won't go Commie (-->SPHQ), and
- we're shortly going to snap up all the other GWs on our required tech-path (ToE, SETI, Internet)
But we also need to know Fission to find out where the U235 is ASAP. Even if we don't build Manhattan for the TacNuke/ICBM-prebuild possibility, we will certainly need U235 to build the SSThrusters and/or SSFuelCells (can't remember exactly, but certainly at least one of those, if not both). Since we can't trade for any StratRes which are still 'hidden' from the AIs behind a tech-barrier (can we...?), hopefully we will have some on our territory -- because if not, we would either have to tech-gift someone into the Modern Age, or (start planning a) fight for it.
(Although admittedly that same argument also applies to Rocketry (=>Alu), which we will also need for (nearly) every(?) Ship part. Damn, now I'm undecided again -- which of those techs is more expensive...?)
Didn't manage to get to it over the weekend, got started on it tonight.
I bring terrible news. Japan sent an Archer and a Spear into our territory in the far north, it seemed obvious that they were up to something but I neglected to realize that they both had an RoP with us and there was just enough road and railroad to get them deep into our territory... and most of our cities are undefended... you see where this is going.
Luckily, they only captured one city. Bad news: It was Trondheim. It wasn't hard to recapture, but that won't bring back our Forbidden Palace, our Military Academy, or a bunch of other buildings we had there.
At least they decided to walk into there, and not Oasenstadt...
Totally my bad, I really should have put a few units up there to block them from moving, it just slipped my mind...
I bring terrible news. Japan sent an Archer and a Spear into our territory in the far north, it seemed obvious that they were up to something but I neglected to realize that they both had an RoP with us and there was just enough road and railroad to get them deep into our territory... and most of our cities are undefended... you see where this is going.
Luckily, they only captured one city. Bad news: It was Trondheim. It wasn't hard to recapture, but that won't bring back our Forbidden Palace, our Military Academy, or a bunch of other buildings we had there.
At least they decided to walk into there, and not Oasenstadt...
Totally my bad, I really should have put a few units up there to block them from moving, it just slipped my mind...
It also cost us two resources at once (the Wines outside Trondheim were the only source we weren't exporting, and they were trading us Furs), so all of our core cities simultaneously rioted- the ToE and SETI will be completed one turn behind schedule, sadly.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Bloody hell, what on earth was Tokugawa thinking?!?
We have Infantry, Artillery and Panzer, he has Spears and Archers (did the Japs ever get any Iron?), and he attacks us... Was he feeling so bad about lagging so far behind that seppuku was the only honourable course? If so, Choxorn, I hope you're obliging him...?
Clearing the Japs off our land (including the Bath-Island) shouldn't take long: would it be worth involving the Indians, to clear the Japs off their continent as well? (Gandhi needs some more cities to compete more effectively against the Mongols, and we've never annoyed him, so maybe he'll sell us the former Japanese Furs instead)?
We have Infantry, Artillery and Panzer, he has Spears and Archers (did the Japs ever get any Iron?), and he attacks us... Was he feeling so bad about lagging so far behind that seppuku was the only honourable course? If so, Choxorn, I hope you're obliging him...?
Clearing the Japs off our land (including the Bath-Island) shouldn't take long: would it be worth involving the Indians, to clear the Japs off their continent as well? (Gandhi needs some more cities to compete more effectively against the Mongols, and we've never annoyed him, so maybe he'll sell us the former Japanese Furs instead)?
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