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Tides of Crimson mod - Game 1

Turn 67
Sneak attack my another Mantis unit, that took out my injured Hunter Apprentice. Our Ranger is done building in Demasus, so I queued up another. Going to send my current lone Ranger to help deal with the Mantis threat. Mantis attacked the Ranger while she was on a mountain... bye bye Mantis.
You do realise that this victory started our Golden Age?! That was a real pity, since it was waaaay earlier than would have been preferable: we only had 3 towns founded, and are still in NoSphere!

(Could I suggest that only the Ranger<> be able to start the Moon-Elf GA -- rather than the first usefully offensive unit they can build?!)

It's also a bit of a shame that you used some of the GA shield-boost for a building in Dem, rather than another vet Rangers to help kill the Swarm (and intimidate the rest of our neighbours).

To add insult, in the meantime, 2/3 of our potential watered 1st-ring town-sites got sniped, and the third turned out to have Maize on it :cry: I've done my best to compensate, but it ain't pretty...
Spoiler (T)urn (L)og (D)on't (R)ead :

82AD
OK, I see we've lost Sites 2 + 7 to the Frostlings and Amazons, and Site6 has Maize, so shouldn't be Settled
Current Pandaren sent to Site W4 to grab those Horses
New Steward goes to assist with Mining the Plains near Nassu
Nassu switched to building another Pandaren (51T before growth!), and MM'd for Pop4 in 1T
Dem MM'd to use 2 BGrass tiles (not unroaded Flood + Forest), so we'll get the Incense-Forest shields-on-growth to Pop5
Ooh, lots of tech-trades available!
Sell Inundation:
RemG pays Mapmaking + 217g
Kerri offers Steel after I add 119g
Brihad is broke and has no other techs
We are still up Philo + Construction, but RemG will currently pay all he has (663g +8 gpt) to get Construction, so it's obviously worth more than that!
Therefore I'll just sell Philosophy:
RemG pays 366g
Kerrigan pays 166g (so we got our 119g back, + 47g)
GAME SAVED
IBT
GA ends! Yeah just as I figured, what a waste...

83 AD
Pandaren arrives at Site W3
IBT
Frostlings send a Bighorn + Seal from the Barrens to land just south of our Pandaren -- too late, RG!

84 AD
Steward begins road to Horses and Site W3
Pandaren founds Cape Bertonia --> Spirit (10T)
IBT
Jenova --> Barracks

85 AD
Plains-Mine finished, Stewards to BGrass NE of Dem (will road + irrigate), and Flood SW of Nassu (irrigate + road)
IBT
Mantis(?) spotted briefly near Hunter-stack
Dem --> Ranger

86 AD
New Ranger sent to Jen, just in case the Mantis is heading that way
Sprite sent to recon: it's not a Mantis, it's an Androctonus!
IBT
Androctonus reappears on Hills NE of Jen

87 AD
Ranger on Mountain bombs Androctonus, Apprentice kills it and promotes
New Ranger sent to join victorious Apprentice
IBT

88 AD
LUX% to 10% to keep Dem happy at Pop6 and finish the Ranger in 2T
IBT
Frostling Settler pair come into view near Frostopolis

89 AD
IBT
Dem --> Spirit (2T)

90 AD
Steward to road BGrass on river
IBT
Frostling Settler-pair arrive at the Barrens

91 AD
IBT
Dem --> Spirit (2T)

92 AD
vSpirit fortified, vRanger to Nassu to keep order
Steward to Forest near Jen
IBT

93 AD
SCI% to 20% for EWaters in 1T + 16gpt
IBT
Next tech target: Seafaring for boats to go exploring
Dem --> Dancer
Nassu --> Pandaren (13T)
Cape Bertonia --> Lunar Well (to put some pressure on the Frostlings)
Ramas build Hopes Temple!
Frostlings start GrimLight

94 AD
Blizzard Falls just popped its borders!
Pandaren + rRanger to Plains NE of Site6
Steward to Hills NNE of Dem
IBT
Amazons start GrimLight

95 AD
Renoa Island founded NE of Maize --> Lunar Well
IBT

96 AD
Frostlings now know Currency, Animal Husbandry and Seafaring, and have a massive pile of gold!
Time to sell Construction (worth 886g straight up, which is more than last time I asked, so likely no-one's done any research on it yet):
RemG pays Currency + 469g
Bhidra pays Animal Husbandry for Currency + 132g (40g cheaper than Kerri's offer)
They all know Seafaring, we're now only 5T off, so we might as well finish it
IBT

97 AD
Zzz...
IBT

98 AD
Zzz...
IBT
Dem --> Spirit

99 AD
Dancer to Hunter + Ranger on Mountain
Steward to road Plains + Maize to Renoa
IBT

100 AD
SCI% to 40% for Seafaring in 1T + 15gpt
LUX% to 10% to fully employ Dem's citizens and get another Dancer in 3T
Dammit, I think Kerri just got Premonition and swapped it with RG for Construction...
GAME SAVED[/B]
Handover

Military:


I think Priority No.1 now is killing the Swarm. They are now building (regular) Androctoni instead of Mantises (twice the price, half the defence!), so I only had to fight one of them during my set (I played 18T to round off to 100AD).

We already have 5 units (2 vHunters, 2 vRangers, 1 vDancer) near their capital -- which I think is still their only town, and it's on Floodplains, so will get no terrain-defensive bonus). We can also send down the cRanger from Renoa right now (garrison that town with the nearby rSpirit instead), another vDancer from Dem in 3T, and the vSpirit + rSpirit from Jenova and near Nassu, respectively. Once everyone is in striking distance, send them all in for the kill in a single turn, and with a bit of luck, that should squish the bugs forever.

Their capital town is in a good site, so we should keep it if possible. Build Stewards(Swarm) out of it to get rid of any excess pop-points, then a Well, then (prebuild?) our Granary.

Towns:

Priority No.1.5 is to found more of them!

So Nassu should build only Pandarens for a while: grow it up fast using the high-food tiles (it can now get 7fpt for growth in 3T!), then switch to shield-rich tiles at Pop6(ish) to finish the build. That will keep our commerce-output as high as possible for fast research, without much risk of riots.

We need to settle aggressively NW and NE before the Amazons and Frostlings pop those borders again. The next Pandaren (currently due in 6T unless you fiddle with Nassu's tile-assignments) should therefore head for the riverside Grass 1NW of Nassu's Horses, and 2NE of Grove: this will close our Cultural borders over the intervening Plains tiles, which can be roaded+mined for more shields to both towns (we can Forest/Chop those tiles later, if/when we want buildings).

The second Pandaren should go to the coastal Plains ENE of Dem, NNW of the Barrens of Rigal (to get the Fish after one border-pop). Once the Swarm is dead, we can start founding towns along the rivers to the south.

As you'll see, I'm building Wells for cheap maintenance-free Culture in the 2 towns I founded. We are 1T from learning Seafaring (don't forget to put SCI% back to max for the next project!), so once CapeB has finished its Well (in 2T), it should start building Explorers to map our southern coastline and then contact the rest of the world. (And the second coastal-town-to-be-founded can do the same thing, but in the opposite direction!).

Dem should keep building military-units: you can tweak it for 6, 7, 8, or 10 spt depending on what you want/need (e.g. vSpirits for defence/MP, vRangers/vDancers for fighting) -- and will need to do that if you care about avoiding overrun on the current Dancer-build.

The Steward near Jenova will finish chopping in 3T. If you decide to keep the Barracks-build going, you can leave the citizens working the current food-tiles. Don't switch to a cheaper build (e.g. a Watermill) unless you can micromanage to finish that build in 1-2T, before the chop happens -- otherwise most of those chop-shields will be wasted. If you finish the Barracks, start building mil-units from there.

Renoa should next begin pre-building our Maize Farm, ready to switch over when the Steward finishes connecting that Maize to our trade-net. After that, it could go on Steward- or Pandaren-building duty. And (if it doesn't flip) it would also be a pretty good site to (pre)build our Spire of the Sunset -- once we've founded enough towns for that (but don't chop any Forests into any SW-prebuilds, or we won't be able to switch!).

If any town looks like it's going to get rowdy after growth at the current LUX%-setting, switch the current build to a Steward (we need more of them anyway!). (I've been oscillating LUX% between 0 and 10% to maintain order)

Science:

We were up Construction on the Amazons and the Ramas a couple of turns ago, but I think Kerri just learnt Premonition, because she and RemG both suddenly know it, and we can't sell Construction to her anymore (suggesting she sold a monopoly-tech in exchange). If we want it, I would suggest waiting until the Ramas learn it/ buy it from one of them, and then sell Construction to the Ramas in exchange for it (if we still can).

We should also think about what Sphere we want to research/use next. Once Seafaring is in, I think we can go straight for Water Sphere(?) -- but this is a Continents map, so the faster boat-movement may not be particularly useful. Would Earth Sphere be a good target/ useful for the Moon Elves? If not, then just go for boring ol' Balance Sphere.

Whichever Sphere you decide on, I think we should now beeline it, then get the respective Node + Tower built ASAP, so that we can get as many units + spells out of them as possible.

The save is below. Just so you know, I won't be able to play again for about a week, because Christmas starts on the 24th in Germany, and our attic (where this computer is) is also our "guest bedroom" -- and my wife's family will be visiting for several days from the 26th. I'll be able to log into CFC on my phone, though, if you have any specific questions.
 

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I'm so sorry! I should have given you a stronger warning that I am not a good player. Totally forgot about the early golden age trigger while I was playing, big mistake. Agree with you about changing the GA ability to only the upgraded version, I'll correct that for the next patch (or full version).

I appreciate the very helpful tips, and you keeping us afloat. I'll see if I can take the fight to the Ethropa! I'll read your advise more carefully this time. Will play when I get a chance.

I'm leaning towards Earth Sphere by the way.

And no worries about not being able to play for a while, everyone is busy this time of year, so I get it. Happy Holidays @tjs282 !!!
 
I'll see if I can take the fight to the Ethropa!
If you decide to approach from due east, through the Hills, just remember to take our units across that River with their first move, before using their second move to attack A-W. Don't give the bugs the River-defence bonus! ;)

And happy holidays to you, too! :santa2:
 
@tjs282

Turn 102: Lunar well finished! Switched to moonlight dancer in Cape Bertonia. I know you said not to build roads in desert, but I don't know how else to connect Renoa Island to the other southern cities, so i went for that. I turned the Science Slider up, going for Earth Sphere.

Turn 103: Demasus finished building moonlight dancer. I've been amassing my forces to the West so ready to take on the Swarm now with her help. Forest chop for Jenova completed, Barracks is 1 turn away from being done. Got Premonition for our 280 gold, from the Amazonians. Turned the luxury slider up to 20% because I've been dealing with unhappiness with less garrisons in our cities. But Sci slider still at our max 70%.

Turn 104: Barracks done in Jenova Ridge, switching to Spirit to take advantage of the Barracks. Inching closer to the Swarm, I'm attacking next turn with a mixed army of 10 units.

Turn 105: Settler done in Nassudru, building another. Lunar Well done in Renoa island, switched to Ranger. Launched massive attack on the insects, no problem. They had 2 mantises and an Androctini. Took zero casualties. But Frostling grey wolf is approaching our territory, not as an escort, to the NE. I'm a little weary, only have 1 Spirit defending Nassudru, so I'll be sending 1 or 2 troops back that way soon. Switched to Tidesfall Castle in Renoa island to prebuild for the Granary.

Turn 106: New city founded near the horses as you said, called "Kalimsa"!

Turn 107: Ranger built in Demasus, going for a quick Nature's Steward before switching back to military. We got Corn! Switching to a Maize Farm and upping production tiles in Renoa.

Turn 116: Mount Jahdar Founded E, NE or Demasus, one day we'll get fish there.. ;)

Turn 120: Got another settler unit in Jenova Ridge. I'm exhausted and forgot to write much about previous turns. lol. 20 turns is much harder then I thought when trying to maximize everything (even though I still failed here and there).

All the tips you gave me really helped me think more deeply about my game. Your thought process is very efficient. Hopefully i didn't mess this up too much! Accidentally went 1 turn over again lol.
 

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  • ToC-SG1 MoonElves, 121 AD.SAV
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OK, I've got the save, haven't opened it yet...
I know you said not to build roads in desert, but I don't know how else to connect Renoa Island to the other southern cities, so i went for that.
If that was the shortest route(?), that's fine. Connecting our more outlying towns as early as possible reduces corruption and allows sharing the Incense, reducing unhappiness.

The only consideration is when there are several possible routes of equal length, then the roads should preferably be laid over the tile(s) with the higher base yield(s) before any improvements are made: e.g. roading a Bonus Grass (2f + 1s [+1c after the road] = output 3 [or 4]) would almost always be preferable to a Desert (0f +1s [+1c] = output 1 [or 2]).
I turned the Science Slider up, going for Earth Sphere.
O-kay, Earth Sphere it is! If it comes in during my set, and we're still at peace, I'll revolt us immediately and click Enter through the Anarchy (Moon Elves are Religious, right? i.e. it'll only be 2 turns?).
But Frostling grey wolf is approaching our territory, not as an escort, to the NE. I'm a little weary, only have 1 Spirit defending Nassudru, so I'll be sending 1 or 2 troops back that way soon.
During the early game, while there's still plenty of tiles to Settle, lone roving AI-units are usually just Barb (Krog)-hunting. If they're crossing into your territory in stacks though, watch out!
I'm exhausted and forgot to write much about previous turns. lol. 20 turns is much harder then I thought when trying to maximize everything
We've both done 3 sets of (about!) 20 turns, but now we've got a good 1st-ring down, maybe it's time to go to 10 turns per set?
All the tips you gave me really helped me think more deeply about my game. Your thought process is very efficient.
Ha, tell that to my wife! ;)

Will try and start playing later on tonight, possibly finishing off tomorrow
 
OK, I've now played 10 turns, so I'm posting a progress report and the save.
Spoiler (T)urn(L)og(D)on't(R)ead :
121 AD
Our empire is looking pretty good!
Earth-Sphere in 2T! Excellent!
A-W is full of troops, doesn't need a(nother) Spirit: build switched to Lunar Well (wastes 1s) to get some (Forest/Agatte) shields (and Wheat!) into its BFC, 3 excess pop set to Sorceress + Soldiers (should eventually be converted to Stewards)
Spirit, Dancer + Ranger stay in A-W to keep order, remainder will be (upgraded and) distributed across the other towns
Stewards near Dem and Jahdar switched to mining boring ol' Grass, instead of irrigating it!
Pandaren in Jenova sent to southwest River-site (Site 5 on my 60 AD dotmap)
Dem Ballista-build switched to Dancer (1T)
Nassu MM'd to finish Pandaren in 2T
Kalimsa Pandaren-build switched to Barracks (=> Cattle Farm)
Jahdar Spirit-build switched to Well, MM'd to finish in 1T
Bertonia Fishery-build switched to Explorer
Jenova Steward-build switched to Spirit
Frostlings have a pile of cash, Arcane Law + Water Sphere over us:
Code of Laws sold to RemG = Arcane Law + 188g (brings us into the next age!)
IBT
Dem --> Steward
Ankor --> ChieftainsGuild
Renoa --> ScholarsQ
Jahdar --> Explorer
Frostlings begin Gardens of T-Q (good, that'll be useful to us later!)

122 AD
We get Workmanship as our Sceintific freebie-tech!
Hunters towards Dem, Dem's Ranger to Jahdar
Ashengral founded between Jenova + A-W --> Well
SCI% to 50% for Earth Sphere in 1T + 13gpt
IBT
Earth Sphere --> Elven Tips (7T)
Our revolution begins, causing immediate riots in our Pop5+ towns (because I forgot to use WTBP? to re-assign excess pop to Specialists...)
Ramas complete Tomb of Khordaros, begin Margonis Peak

123 AD
MM rioting towns, converting unhappy citz to Dancers + Sorcesses as needed
Rangers from A-W sent to Ashengral + Kalimsa
rSpirit from Dem sent to Ashengral
IBT
Apologies to Kerri for crossing her lawn...

124 AD
We are now using Earth Sphere!
LUX% (back) to 20% to keep order, SCI% back to 70%
IBT
Frostlings send a Seal+Tiger towards Dem
We can build the Earth Node + Tower, and Beaver Dam!
Nassu --> Earth Tower (because it doesn't have a Barracks)

125 AD
Pandaren to river-Plains 2S of Grove of Secrets
IBT
Frostlings declare war!
Gray Wolf kills Spirit, Tiger kills Dancer and captures Cape Bretonia!
Ranger in Renoa Island frozen to death by Snow Storm!

126 AD
At Dem:
Dancers charm Tiger
Hunter Elder kills Seal, trains new Apprentice
Apprintice kills Tiger, promoted and moves to guard Steward
Kerri joins the war against RemG:
we pay Earth Sphere + 11gpt = Water Sphere + MA
Dem switched to Ranger and MM'd to finish in 1T
Spirits rushed in Renoa (36g), Kalimsa (32g) and Jahdar (54g)
rRanger sent from Nassu to Renoa
vRanger sent from Ashen to Jenova
Hunter Elder to Jahdar
Dancer + Ranger from A-W sent back to core
Nightglades founded near GoS --> Spirit
Steward retreated to Dem
Dancer + Apprentice to Cape Bretonia
Brihad joins the war against RemG:
we pay Arcane Law + Code of Laws + 8gpt + 15g = MA
IBT
Dem --> Spirit (2T)
A-W --> Steward (30T before we get some SPT)
Jenova, Renoa --> Spirit (3T at 0fpt)
Kalimsa --> Spirit (7T)
Jahdar --> Spirit (20T)

127 AD
At Cape B:
Hunter Apprentice kills injured Gray Wolf + Tiger, recapturing the town (along with 131g), vSpirit moved in from Jenova --> Spirit (4T at 0fpt)
Ranger + Dancer both fail to bomb Arctic Wolf, Apprentice nonetheless makes it a triple (but with only 1HP left!)
IBT
rSpirit on Mountain near Frostopolis defeats Arctic Wolf for promotion! (2/4 HP)
Nassu --> Dancer (4T at 0fpt)

128 AD
Injured vSpirit retreats to Kal, healthy vSpirit from Kal replaces her
Injured Apprentice returns to Dem to heal
Spare units assembled in Cape B while we rebuild our forces
Stewards sent SW away from the front, to build roads to newer towns
IBT
2nd vSpirit wasn't so lucky, killed by Arctic Wolf!
Tiger captures Fem'Thristol from Amazons!
Ranger skewers second Arctic Wolf at Renoa

129 AD
Near Dem:
Rangers + Dancers from all nearby towns mostly fail to hit rArctic Wolf; vElder comes down from Jahdar to finish him off (just!)
vApprentice sent from CapeB to protect Elder
Near Renoa:
Ranger bombs Arctic Wolf to 1 HP, but Ranger from Kal fails to finish him off
IBT
At Jahdar: vRanger forces Arctic Wolf to retreat
Amazons recapture Fem'T
Dem --> Dancer (3T, Pop9 in 4T)
Renoa --> Spirit (3T)

130 AD
Near CapeB:
Dancer + Ranger both hit ArcticWolf heading for Jenova, Apprentice redlines killing it
At Jahdar:
Injured (2/4 hp) vRanger lethal-bombs retreating Wolf
SCI% to 60% for Elven Tips in 1T and 'only' -6gpt
GAME SAVED
Handover(?)

We are now running Earth Sphere (yay!) -- and at war with the Frostlings (booo!).

Rem'G started it, by sneak-attacking Cape B, but I recaptured it almost immediately, and have been able to fight off their further incursions so far (we lost a Spirit, Dancer + Ranger during the initial attack, and another Spirit later on, but no more towns).

I have been using our rather large pile of gold to rush replacement units, and pay Allies (Kerri can attack the Frostlings directly along a separate front, but I bribed Bridha simply to prevent Rem'G from doing so).

My "plan" (har har) was to use more gold to upgrade our Rangers (Elven Tips is due next turn) and cash- or short-rush Dancer-builds as convenient.
Spoiler What "short-rushing" means :
You look at a town's 'natural' shields-per-turn (while still getting at least 2 fpt for growth), and set an intermediate target-build which costs less than your final target, by that same amount of shields -- or a neat multiple of that value -- then after 1-2 turns of production, you cash-rush the intermediate build, and switch to the final target.

e.g. if you want Dancers (36s), and a town makes 4 spt, short-rush to a Ranger (32s), if 6 spt, short-rush to a Steward (30s), and if 8 spt, short-rush to a Spirit (20s), then immediately switch those builds so that the next turn -- or after 2 turns -- you get the Dancer finished using the harvested shields
Then, once I/we have a decent stack put together, take down Snowfall Terrace, Barrens of Rigal and finally Blizzard Falls (I expect Frostopolis to fall to the Amazons before we're in a position to attack it ourselves, but you never know...). By that point, the Frostlings should be ready to make concessions, and our MAs should be nearly done (we need to let them complete, to preserve our trade reputation).

Shall I play on? I'm happy to do another 10 tomorrow, but if you'd rather take over now, that's also fine by me.
 

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If that was the shortest route(?), that's fine. Connecting our more outlying towns as early as possible reduces corruption and allows sharing the Incense, reducing unhappiness.

The only consideration is when there are several possible routes of equal length, then the roads should preferably be laid over the tile(s) with the higher base yield(s) before any improvements are made: e.g. roading a Bonus Grass (2f + 1s [+1c after the road] = output 3 [or 4]) would almost always be preferable to a Desert (0f +1s [+1c] = output 1 [or 2]).
Yeah it was just 2 desert tiles I had to choose from to connect southward.. I believe other adjacent tiles were hills/forests, so I didnt want to spend that many turns building a road on them.

O-kay, Earth Sphere it is! If it comes in during my set, and we're still at peace, I'll revolt us immediately and click Enter through the Anarchy (Moon Elves are Religious, right? i.e. it'll only be 2 turns?).

Yep, 2 turns!

"""

Thanks for the tips on enemy stacks! And I agree, 10 turns takes me a long time now lol. So that's a good thing to shorten it!
 
OK, I've now played 10 turns, so I'm posting a progress report and the save.
Spoiler (T)urn(L)og(D)on't(R)ead :
121 AD
Our empire is looking pretty good!
Earth-Sphere in 2T! Excellent!
A-W is full of troops, doesn't need a(nother) Spirit: build switched to Lunar Well (wastes 1s) to get some (Forest/Agatte) shields (and Wheat!) into its BFC, 3 excess pop set to Sorceress + Soldiers (should eventually be converted to Stewards)
Spirit, Dancer + Ranger stay in A-W to keep order, remainder will be (upgraded and) distributed across the other towns
Stewards near Dem and Jahdar switched to mining boring ol' Grass, instead of irrigating it!
Pandaren in Jenova sent to southwest River-site (Site 5 on my 60 AD dotmap)
Dem Ballista-build switched to Dancer (1T)
Nassu MM'd to finish Pandaren in 2T
Kalimsa Pandaren-build switched to Barracks (=> Cattle Farm)
Jahdar Spirit-build switched to Well, MM'd to finish in 1T
Bertonia Fishery-build switched to Explorer
Jenova Steward-build switched to Spirit
Frostlings have a pile of cash, Arcane Law + Water Sphere over us:
Code of Laws sold to RemG = Arcane Law + 188g (brings us into the next age!)
IBT
Dem --> Steward
Ankor --> ChieftainsGuild
Renoa --> ScholarsQ
Jahdar --> Explorer
Frostlings begin Gardens of T-Q (good, that'll be useful to us later!)

122 AD
We get Workmanship as our Sceintific freebie-tech!
Hunters towards Dem, Dem's Ranger to Jahdar
Ashengral founded between Jenova + A-W --> Well
SCI% to 50% for Earth Sphere in 1T + 13gpt
IBT
Earth Sphere --> Elven Tips (7T)
Our revolution begins, causing immediate riots in our Pop5+ towns (because I forgot to use WTBP? to re-assign excess pop to Specialists...)
Ramas complete Tomb of Khordaros, begin Margonis Peak

123 AD
MM rioting towns, converting unhappy citz to Dancers + Sorcesses as needed
Rangers from A-W sent to Ashengral + Kalimsa
rSpirit from Dem sent to Ashengral
IBT
Apologies to Kerri for crossing her lawn...

124 AD
We are now using Earth Sphere!
LUX% (back) to 20% to keep order, SCI% back to 70%
IBT
Frostlings send a Seal+Tiger towards Dem
We can build the Earth Node + Tower, and Beaver Dam!
Nassu --> Earth Tower (because it doesn't have a Barracks)

125 AD
Pandaren to river-Plains 2S of Grove of Secrets
IBT
Frostlings declare war!
Gray Wolf kills Spirit, Tiger kills Dancer and captures Cape Bretonia!
Ranger in Renoa Island frozen to death by Snow Storm!

126 AD
At Dem:
Dancers charm Tiger
Hunter Elder kills Seal, trains new Apprentice
Apprintice kills Tiger, promoted and moves to guard Steward
Kerri joins the war against RemG:
we pay Earth Sphere + 11gpt = Water Sphere + MA
Dem switched to Ranger and MM'd to finish in 1T
Spirits rushed in Renoa (36g), Kalimsa (32g) and Jahdar (54g)
rRanger sent from Nassu to Renoa
vRanger sent from Ashen to Jenova
Hunter Elder to Jahdar
Dancer + Ranger from A-W sent back to core
Nightglades founded near GoS --> Spirit
Steward retreated to Dem
Dancer + Apprentice to Cape Bretonia
Brihad joins the war against RemG:
we pay Arcane Law + Code of Laws + 8gpt + 15g = MA
IBT
Dem --> Spirit (2T)
A-W --> Steward (30T before we get some SPT)
Jenova, Renoa --> Spirit (3T at 0fpt)
Kalimsa --> Spirit (7T)
Jahdar --> Spirit (20T)

127 AD
At Cape B:
Hunter Apprentice kills injured Gray Wolf + Tiger, recapturing the town (along with 131g), vSpirit moved in from Jenova --> Spirit (4T at 0fpt)
Ranger + Dancer both fail to bomb Arctic Wolf, Apprentice nonetheless makes it a triple (but with only 1HP left!)
IBT
rSpirit on Mountain near Frostopolis defeats Arctic Wolf for promotion! (2/4 HP)
Nassu --> Dancer (4T at 0fpt)

128 AD
Injured vSpirit retreats to Kal, healthy vSpirit from Kal replaces her
Injured Apprentice returns to Dem to heal
Spare units assembled in Cape B while we rebuild our forces
Stewards sent SW away from the front, to build roads to newer towns
IBT
2nd vSpirit wasn't so lucky, killed by Arctic Wolf!
Tiger captures Fem'Thristol from Amazons!
Ranger skewers second Arctic Wolf at Renoa

129 AD
Near Dem:
Rangers + Dancers from all nearby towns mostly fail to hit rArctic Wolf; vElder comes down from Jahdar to finish him off (just!)
vApprentice sent from CapeB to protect Elder
Near Renoa:
Ranger bombs Arctic Wolf to 1 HP, but Ranger from Kal fails to finish him off
IBT
At Jahdar: vRanger forces Arctic Wolf to retreat
Amazons recapture Fem'T
Dem --> Dancer (3T, Pop9 in 4T)
Renoa --> Spirit (3T)

130 AD
Near CapeB:
Dancer + Ranger both hit ArcticWolf heading for Jenova, Apprentice redlines killing it
At Jahdar:
Injured (2/4 hp) vRanger lethal-bombs retreating Wolf
SCI% to 60% for Elven Tips in 1T and 'only' -6gpt
GAME SAVED
Handover(?)

We are now running Earth Sphere (yay!) -- and at war with the Frostlings (booo!).

Rem'G started it, by sneak-attacking Cape B, but I recaptured it almost immediately, and have been able to fight off their further incursions so far (we lost a Spirit, Dancer + Ranger during the initial attack, and another Spirit later on, but no more towns).

I have been using our rather large pile of gold to rush replacement units, and pay Allies (Kerri can attack the Frostlings directly along a separate front, but I bribed Bridha simply to prevent Rem'G from doing so).

My "plan" (har har) was to use more gold to upgrade our Rangers (Elven Tips is due next turn) and cash- or short-rush Dancer-builds as convenient.
Spoiler What "short-rushing" means :
You look at a town's 'natural' shields-per-turn (while still getting at least 2 fpt for growth), and set an intermediate target-build which costs less than your final target, by that same amount of shields -- or a neat multiple of that value -- then after 1-2 turns of production, you cash-rush the intermediate build, and switch to the final target.

e.g. if you want Dancers (36s), and a town makes 4 spt, short-rush to a Ranger (32s), if 6 spt, short-rush to a Steward (30s), and if 8 spt, short-rush to a Spirit (20s), then immediately switch those builds so that the next turn -- or after 2 turns -- you get the Dancer finished using the harvested shields
Then, once I/we have a decent stack put together, take down Snowfall Terrace, Barrens of Rigal and finally Blizzard Falls (I expect Frostopolis to fall to the Amazons before we're in a position to attack it ourselves, but you never know...). By that point, the Frostlings should be ready to make concessions, and our MAs should be nearly done (we need to let them complete, to preserve our trade reputation).

Shall I play on? I'm happy to do another 10 tomorrow, but if you'd rather take over now, that's also fine by me.
Haha @ "frozen to death by snow storm". So sad....

Love reading your stories, thank you. Didn't know about short rushing, but very cool concept. Normally I would say let's just do 10 turns each, but I don't think I'll have time to play more than once a week or once every two weeks, so you might as well go 20 if you are able! Our society will be much better for it. 🤣
 
Played the other 10 yesterday, but finished too late to post it.
Spoiler (T)urn(L)og(D)on't(R)ead :

130 AD
Dancers short-rushed (various intermediates) in Nassu, CapeB + Jenova, Renoa set to build Steward (to be rushed + switched next turn)
Steward rushed in A-W (81g); in the meantime, assigning 2 Sorcesses allows our SCI% to be reduced to 50% and -3gpt
IBT
Arctic Wolves slay a Spirit on the Stone-Mountain, but retreat from CapeB
Elven Tips --> Guild System (and Banshees!) in 15T
A-W --> Steward
Jenova --> Steward (for Dancer)
CapeB --> Ranger (for Dancer)

131 AD
At CapeB:
Apprentice returns to Dem to heal, Ranger fells injured Wolf in 1 shot
Near Frostopolis:
Dancers + Rangers collectively manage only to redline Wolf on Mountain
Stewards begin mining Plains near Ashen, and roading near A-W
Steward rushed in Nassu (66g)
We are now "average" vs. Frostlings (but strong vs. Amazons!)
IBT
Arctic Wolf kills rRanger in Renoa
Beastmistress-stack heads for Frostopolis
Rama Deer-stack appears near Jenova
Nassu --> Spirit (for Dancer)
Renoa --> Spirit (for new Ranger)

132 AD
Dancers + Rangers bomb injured Wolf near Renoa; Elder kills it
Dancers bomb + kill Arctic Wolf near Snowfall Terrace
3 Dancers + Apprentice move from CapeB to Jungle near Snowfall Terrace
We spot a Bilge Rat off CapeB!
The Skaven have 8 towns, but still lack Code_of_Laws, WaterSph, Construc + ArcLaw; their current Treasury (9g, 0gpt) is not going to buy any of those!
GAME SAVED
IBT
Arctic Wolves kill Ranger in CapeB, and Spirit in Renoa (crap)
Dem --> Ranger <> (4T)

133 AD
Dancers make absolutely no impression on Bison in Snowfall
Dancer charms Wolf outside Renoa, Spirit kills it
Hunter Elder kills Wolf outside Renoa, for promotion (4/6)
Ranger from Nassu to Dem for upgrade
3 + 2 Deer will hit Snowfall over the next 2 turns, so Dancers retreat to concentrate on Barrens (now down to Pop1, may autoraze)
IBT
No attacks from Frostlings! Have they run out of units?
1 deer dies at Snowfall, 1 retreats, 3rd stays on its Mountain
Jenova --> Dancer (6T)
Kalimsa --> CGuild (5T at 0 fpt)

134 AD
Spirit recon: top defender in Snowfall is now a Sheep
Dancers fail to hit Buffalo in Barrens, Ranger takes 1 HP, exposing Waywatcher
2 Apprentices, Elder and 4 Dancers advance on Barrens
Ranger<> from Jenova to defend CapeB (we need more roads!)
IBT
Frostling envoy rejected, since we still have 12T on our MAs
2 more Deer die at Snowfall
We can build our Granary!

135 AD
Dancers again all fail to charm Bison in Barrens, Apprentice kills it anyway
Waywatcher left untouched in the hope that Barrens will grow this turn (and not lose the new citizen!)
Stewards cautiously start roadbuilding NW of Jenova
A-W "prebuild" switched to Gran (15T at 0fpt)
IBT
Arctic Wolves kill Spirits in Jahdar + Kal, third dies to vRanger in Renoa
Renoa --> Ranger
Nightglades --> Spirit
Amazons build Margonis' Peak in Junglehaven!
Ramas + Skaven begin Clafestian Mounds

136 AD
Dancer kills injured Wolf outside Kal
Dem's Dancer charms Wolf near Jahdar, rDancer from Barrens-stack kills it
Remaining Dancers fail to Charm WW, Ranger bombs it for -1 HP -- exposing unfortified rBison
Aaaahh, to Hell with it: Nassu switched to Pandaren to replace Barrens:
vApprentice kills Bison, 4/6 Apprentice kills WW, Barrens gets razed for 64g + Moose (=Mule)
Mule to road mined Grass near Dem, injured Hunters move to guard it (and each other!)
Ranger fortified on ruins, Dancers to Jahdar for push on Blizzard Falls
(Hunters can take out Snowfall once they've healed a bit)
CapeB switched to building Explorer
IBT
Skaven DoW Ramas!
Bridha wants an MA vs. Skavens!
No thanks, one war's enough for now, but he can have an RoP...
Dem --> Ranger<> (4T, growth in 1T)
CapeB --> Explorer
Ashen --> Watermill

137 AD
Explorer + Ranger bomb rWolf at CapeB, Elder kills it
Explorer sent S to monitor/bomb Snowfall
Rangers shuffled to put new upgrades in frontline towns and weaker ones back to Dem
IBT
Ramas sign MA with High Elves vs. Frostlings!
Jahdar --> Watermill

138 AD
Dancers once again fail to charm Bison in Blizzard Falls
Hang on a mo, does this even work on units in towns...?
*checks 'Pedia* D'OH! *facepalm*
IBT
3 Wolves attack Renoa: 1 dies vs. Ranger, 1 retreats, 1 kills Spirit

139 AD
eRanger in Renoa kills redlined Wolf
Ranger takes 1 hp, but 2 rDancers die vs. rBison in Bizzard
vDancer seeks an easier target, kills 3rd Wolf
Now-healed Hunters sent to Snowfall, to get it before the Ramas' new Elephant Scout does!
IBT
No Frostling attacks, another Deer retreats from Snowfall
Nassu --> Pandaren
Janova --> Lumber Mill (Ashen also switched)
Kal --> Watermill

140 AD
Ranger + Explorer knock 1 hp off rBison + rSheep in Snowfall; Apprentice kills Bison, Elder kills Sheep, Snowfall razed for 36g + 1 Moose/Mule
Hunters head north to heal and regroup near Blizzard
GAME SAVED
Handoff

The war has mostly gone well so far. Although we have inevitably lost units, we still have our Hunter Elder (we also have a second Apprentice again!), and RemG has lost both his towns within "our" territory -- and with a bit of luck, you should now/soon be able to start taking towns in his.

We must continue fighting a little longer anyway, because we have another 6T to run on our MAs -- the Amazons and Ramas may come looking to renew them once they've run their course (unless the Frostlings beg them for peace first!), but they are costing us 19gpt, so it would be preferable if we didn't have to pay that longer than absolutely necessary.

At that point you will be able to cancel them without penalty, and everyone will likely continue fighting a bit longer anyway, which helps us! Even if they don't come to renegotiate, and/or you forget to cancel the MAs exactly on the 20th turn, please cancel them before you sign any PT with the Frostlings yourself, to ensure that our trade-rep stays intact.

(Try and get a town or two in the PT if possible: if not towns, then techs; if not techs, then as much gold as you can carry!)

The only flies in our ointment is that both the towns I captured had been reduced to/kept at Pop1, with no Cultural expansion, so were lost to autorazes (RemG had apparently built nothing out of them but Arctic Wolves, so every time they grew to Pop2, they immediately lost that pop-point). We would likely also have captured Blizzard Falls already, if I had not been a complete idiot, and repeatedly wasted our Dancers' attacks on pointless bombards, because I forgot that Charm does not work on units garrisoned in towns (initially I thought it was just bad RNG luck, B=5 vs. D=8 -- but eventually I checked the ToCopedia...).

However, since we are now able to build Ranger<>s, I would suggest now keeping our Dancers at home to bomb and pick off incoming Wolves, while you send our Ranger<>s and Hunters after Blizzard Falls, and then Frostopolis (if the Amazons don't get it first!).

Rem'G has primarily been attacking at Renoa, so by keeping a couple of Dancers there, and the rest in Nassu, you should be able to respond to incoming Wolves anywhere across that northern sector. Spirits will likely need to be channelled to Renoa every couple of turns, to replace losses. Don't be afraid of moving Spirit garrisons up from non-endangered towns if needed (and if doing so will not cause a riot).

We have a Pandaren in transit, which I initially intended to "refound" Barrens of Rigal (Site 2; see the new dotmap), but then changed my mind: I would prefer to use it to Settle on the coastal Jungle near the ruins of Snowfall Terrace (Site 1; needs 3T to get there, and for the Rama units to vacate!).

This expands our borders further south, and helps to close off that choke-point to further Rama expansion. I realise that Site1 misses the Fish, but I think that loss is more than compensated by the access to freshwater, and eventually to the nearby Stone-resources (after building a Well and roads: the Steward near Dem can do that).
ToC-SG1 Dotmap 140 AD.png

Mount Jahdar's Pandaren-build is intended for Site 2. Blizzard Falls will not autoraze on capture, but I would set it to harvest zero-food, and Pandaren-disband it, to refound at Site 3 (which gets the Wheat in its eventual BFC)

Regarding Steward-assignments in general, we do not yet have the Worker-strength to waste on jobs which will only benefit us over the long-term. So I would strongly recommend concentrating on improving mainly/only the flat tiles, aiming to yield an average of at least 2f + 1s per worked tile, over all tiles worked by any town (i.e. keeping every town growing and building) using the following priorities:
Bonus Grassland (if few/no Forests/Hills/Mountains nearby): road + mine
Bonus Grassland (if Forests/Hills/Mountains): road + irrigate (1 BGrass per Forest/Hill, 2 BGrass per Mountain)
Floodplains: road + irrigate
Desert: road + mine (1 Desert per irrigated Floodplain)
Plains/Grassland (all): road + mine

For Forests/Hills/Mountains (and even more so Jungles/Marshes!), build roads as/where needed to connect towns/resources, but otherwise ignore those tiles for now. If you want to queue up an expensive building (>40s), by all means chop an adjacent Forest to speed it up -- but only if we can obtain maximum benefit from the chop-shields. I also wouldn't bother planting any new Forests yet. Once the war is over, we can think about stacking our Stewards for faster completion of the heavier jobs.

Regarding our towns, I am a big fan of assigning each town to a specific purpose, and preferably only that purpose. Although circumstances such as a surprise-attack (by a "nice" neighbour!) may force us to panic-build mil-units everywhere, ideally:
-- Towns with high-food outputs (e.g. Nassu, Renoa, Ankor) should build mainly Settlers/Workers
-- Towns with high (future) shield-outputs (Dem, Jenova, Jahdar, Ashen) should build shield-booster buildings and military units
-- Towns with high commerce (e.g. Dem, Kal, coastal towns) should build science-/tax-booster buildings
-- Towns on coasts (CapeB, Site1, Site2) should build ships/bombardment units

(More specifically: once Kal has its Watermill, it should be able to build rSpirits in only 2-3T -- maybe later it can get a Barracks; I think it would also be a good site for our Spire o.t. Sunset)

You will also soon be able to build Banshees (but please do so with restraint, and only out of Dem!) ;)
 

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  • ToC-SG1 MoonElves, 140 AD.SAV
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@tjs282

Turn 140
Cape Bertonia builds an Explorer ship. Yay! Production switched to Spirit.
Burning Legion built Walls of Esengar! DAMMIT!
Beginning to move forces to Blizzard Falls

Turn 142
Full siege launched on Bllzzard Falls, took out like 2 Snow bisons and a sheep, no casualties! At least not that I can see. hard to tell without the movement animations for me. Turning them back on temporarily, feel free to turn back off!

Turn 143
Continuing to pump out vRangers<> from Demasus, and Moonlight Dancers from Renoa. Moving units to Renoa to prepare an attack on Frostopolis. Abondoned Blizzard Falls in order to rebuild it.

Turn 144
Nordrakil founded at city site #1!

Turn 145 Guild System research finished. Deer are running rampant through our territory! Sneak attack attempted by Frostlings toward my Moonlight Dancers to the NE of our territory, by 2 Snow Leopard thingys. The leapords died! Full on assault launched on Frostopolis with 2 Rangers, a Hunter Apprentice, and 3 Dancers. Lost 1 Ranger, but took the city (autorazed). Got a free mule out of it!

Turn 146
Ramas and Frostlings are fighting eachother in our territory. Snow leapords vs Deer and Arctic Wolves vs Elephant Scouts. It's madness! Need to get them out of our territory. Frostlings stole my mule before I could move it back! =( Lost a Dancer getting greedy and attacking an arctic wolf on a mountain just north of Renoa, but he's badly injured after some additional shots from upgraded Rangers. So my Hunter Apprentice finished him off.

Turn 147
I got some Corn in Renoa!!! nom nom nom. Should I use it right away or save it to help grow a new city? I might save it and let you choose what to do with it, because you are smarter than I.

Turn 148
Granary Built in Ankor Whil! Now we got some food production going! Wheat and Corn baby! Lumber Mill done in Jenova Ridge, going settler this time. The Ramas are going full force on the Frostling capital city of Winterhaven, but taking casualties only as far as I can tell. Nassudru builds a setter, and so does Mount Jahdar! High Elves build Clafestian Mounds, more production for them! grrr...

Turn 149
Got Balance Sphere from the Skaven, for some technology I don't remember.

HAND OFF. God i messed this up i'm sure, so sorry lol.

Fyi i noticed you liked to play with 'show field and shields on map' on. Here's a sneak preview of version 3.0 interface updates (coming sometime later this year). Food and Shields will be more obvious when this option is on, and yields on such terrain as bonus plains and flood plains will now show accurately. Not to mention, the city view screen will show potential yields of unimproved flat terrain as well!

1674282845130.png


and the city screen, unworked tiles show their yields, but color is faded to differentiate from worked tiles:

1674282943535.png
 

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  • ToC-SG1 MoonElves, 150 AD.SAV
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Sorry it took me a while to get round to this. I've just now finished playing my 10T.
Spoiler (T)urn(L)og(D)on't(R)ead :

150 AD
OMG, these builds are messed-up!
Demausus has excess FPT and is struggling with WW! It can build Earth Tower! (2T, growth in 12T)
Nassudru has huge FPT but low SPT, so should be building Pandarens, not SWonders!
Likewise Kalimsa has high FPT, but not enough shields (yet), so let's have a Watermill (1T, wastes 2s)
Renoa is at Pop6 and has no Barracks, so why is it building a Banshee?!? Switched to Watermill (1T)
CapeB certainly needs terrain improvements, but could use more shields as well: switched to Watermill (4T)
Jahdar has no Barracks and is poorly placed: Spirit-build MM'd to 5 SPT at 0 FPT, for short-rush to Steward in 3T (5T total)
Ankor has no Barracks, so should not build the EarthNode! Switched to ScholarsQ
Jenova is a Barracks-town, with only a +2 FPT growth rate! It should be building military, not Pandarens! Switched to EarthNode (MM'd to finish in 1T at 0 FPT)
Nightglades is at 35-40% waste, so should have a ChiefsGuild (6T, Pop4 in 2T) before it builds anything else

Now that's done...
Maize sent towards Ashengral
Pandaren near Renoa was presumably to replace Blizzard Falls (which should not have been razed, but too late now...), but I am a little nervous about that site's proximity to Winterhaven. It can replace Frostopolis instead (getting us Silks)
Pandaren near Jahdar founds Definale on ruins of SnowfallTerr --> LunarWell (15T, Pop2 in 7T)
Embassies built with HighElves (83g) and Skaven (59g)
The Elves will build White Eagle in 9T, beating the Skaven by 1T, so a cascade is imminent
Spirit + Ranger sent south to meet/block the Beastmen and Lizardmen, respectively
The Beasts have nothing we want (apart from their towns!); an Embassy (52g) shows them to be on the same continent as the Skaven and Elves, but their White Eagle build is a no-hoper! (34T)
IBT
Jenova --> Spirit (2T) (we need lots, to garrison our internal towns and free up our Rangers!)
Renoa --> Steward (5T, Pop7 in 1T)
Kalimsa --> Steward (6T, Pop7 in 8T)

151 AD
Pandaren to Frostopolis-ruins, Hunters + Rangers move to defend it
Explorer discovers Frozen Pond Grove on the High Elves' continent: excellent, we can evict Rem'G from our continent without feeling bad...
IBT
Dem --> Spirit (2T)
Ankor --> Steward (6T, Pop6 in 1T)

152 AD
Moonhaven founded --> Lunar Well (T)
Mule near Dem upgraded (25g)
Explorer sails SE, meets the Mountain Dwarves near Frozen Grove; we are up GuildSys, but they have only 3g, despite their 10 towns...
Embassy founded (47g), showing that Magri will finish Grimghar in 19T -- can't help wondering how that stacks up against the Frostlings' progress...
Renoa MM'd for 4 FPT
IBT
Dwarves move on Frozen Grove!
Rama Deer + Ellie-Scout both fail to dent Winterhaven
Frostlings sign PT with High Elves
CapeB --> Well (3T, Pop6 in 1T)
We can build SilkFactory! (But maybe not quite yet...)
High Elves begin Gardens of TQ

153 AD
GAME SAVED
Spirit-build in Jahdar rushed (9g) and switched to Steward (2T)
We contact the Lizards; they lack BalanceSph, GuildSys and Workmanship, and have only 12g and 5 towns
Embassy established (49g), showing that Loregan is stuck in a swamp, and likely under attack (defenders are injured)
Like the Beasts, they are also native to the other(?) Continent -- which makes their towns on ours fair game...
IBT
Nightglades --> Watermill (14T, Pop5 in 3T)

154 AD
Ranger goes south to explore the Ramas' land
IBT
Morgor complains (Cautiously!) about our Ranger
Jahdar --> Steward-to-abandon-town (10T)
Ashen --> Barracks (12T)
Skaven complete White Eagle! How did they do that?!?
Dwarves begin Tidesfall Castle, Gardens of TQ

155 AD
New vSpirit to CapeB, freeing Hunter Elder to head north
Maize helps Ashen to grow to Pop5
Nassu MM'd to prevent riot and speed Pandaren-build
IBT
Lizards boot us!
High Elves finsh Gardens of TQ, begin Glade Shrine
Beasts switch to Tidesfall Castle

156 AD
Damn, the Lizards kicked our Ranger backwards: she heads south again...
The Frostlings have been very quiet, so Rangers + Hunters head for Moonhaven, in preparation for assault on nearby Redemption Isle (to get it before the Amazons do!)
Unhappy citizens geeked in Nassu + AW to prevent riots
IBT
Morgor complains again, but this time she can make it out before he boots her...
Magri complains about our Explorer, so I sign an RoP
Frostlings drop off an ArcWolf outside Definale!
Brihad wants to renew our RoP: since I'm about to enter his land, I agree...
Kal --> Steward

157 AD
vSpirits sent to Definale, just in case
rDancer from Renoa to Jahdar, charms Wolf to D=2
rDancer from Jahdar kills Wolf, no promotion -- but our Stewards are safe!
Skaven apparently chose Righteousness and FireSph as their freebies, sold both to the Elves, and FireSph to the Ramas...
IBT
Engineering --> Righteousness (9T)
Dem --> Ranger
We can build Spire o.t. Sunset!
Nordrakil --> ChiefsGuild
Nassu --> Pandaren (9T, Pop7 in 3T at 7 FPT)
Renoa --> ChiefsGuild (3T at +1 FPT)

158 AD
3 Rangers + 3 Hunters sent north
Pandaren + Steward to Jahdar, in prep to abandon the town
Explorer meets Wood Elf ship: Galadriel has 8 towns, 2g, and still lacks BalSph, WaterSph, GuildSys, Eng, EarthSph, + Workmanship. Maybe we'll sell her something later, if she finds some gold...
Steward rushed in Jahdar (63g), set to 0 FPT
Kalimsa switched to Spire o.t. Sunset (50T until we can get some mines built)
IBT
Beasts + Lizards sign PT. Pity...
Beastmistress dies to Bison in Redemption
Ankor --> Steward (6T, Pop7 in 4T)
We can build CattleFarm!
Jahdar Steward-abandoned

159 AD
Stewards inst-road Jahdar's ruins, Pandaren moves to Gold-Hill with the mil-units
At Rempdemption Isle:
Rangers bomb Bison for -1 HP
eApprentice kills Bison, exposing 2/3 Bighorn
vApprentice kills Bighorn (2/5) and we capture the town (+ 2 Mules!)
eElder and eApprentice move in to hold it
Oh wow, no-one knows Engineering! The Rats will give us both unknown techs for it, + 16g, but I'd rather just have 1526g (out of 1569g): since Righteousness is only worth 760g and FireSph 750g right now, I should be able to get those from the Elves and Ramas (who just bought Righteousness, and are broke).
Elves give Righteousness + 109g for Eng!
Ramas give FireSph for Eng + 76g
We begin researching Devotion (12T)
LUX% needs to go to 20% to deal with WW, not sure why though...
IBT
Lizards + Rats sign PT. Pity...
HighElves + Ramas sign MA vs Rats. That's more like it!
HighElves + WoodElves sign MA vs Rats. Yeah baby, yeah!
Frostlings + Amazons sign PT. We'll see about that...
Jenova --> Spirit
Nightglades --> Barracks (10T, Pop6 in 2T)

160 AD
vSpirit arrives in Redemption, Hunters move out to join Rangers; one sent to scout north
Mules begin chopping for our next town
Mount Jahdar refounded on Gold-Hill
GAME SAVED
Handover

The main news items are that (courtesy of our lone Explorer) we now know more of the map, and have now met 9/10(?) of the other tribes: the Burning Legion have not been located yet. We still need an Embassy with the Wood Elves, but having just sold our monopoly on Engineering, there is plenty of gold to pay for that, before ending the current turn!

ToC-SG1 Minimap 160 AD.png


The Pandarens you left me were used to refound on the ruins of 2/3 of the Frostling towns we (auto)razed: Frostopolis for its Silks, and Snowfall Terrace for its coastal river.

Our core is now looking a lot better. I've built roads on nearly all Dem's (flat) tiles to boost commerce/research. Nassu + Kalimsa + Definale + CapeB should be treated likewise, since they will be our strongest/ richest/ fastest-growing towns. Plains and Grassland-mines are still needed to increase shield-counts, but then the Stewards can head towards our southern towns (and away from the war!), where they can start clearing Forest into useful buildings (and draining the Marshes, and burning down the Jungle).

I also just used a third Pandaren to move Mount Jahdar to a better location, to reduce the crowding on Dem and the new town of Definale (former Snowfall Terrace), and advance our borders closer to the eventual replacement-site for Blizzard Falls. (But I didn't refound that one yet, because without a sufficiently large garrison, it was and is still too close to Winterhaven for my flip-/capture-proofing comfort).

I also didn't attack Winterhaven itself, because it has been building Grimghar's Lighthouse for a long time, and may complete it soon (or another GW, if RemG loses the Lighthouse to a cascade). At that point, we can go and liberate it -- because if it's been spending its shields on Wonders, it likely won't have many defenders.

I haven't been completely passive, though! During the last 2T, I finally mustered enough Rangers + Hunters to go and steal Redemption Isle out from under the Amazons' noses -- it's still in resistance and starving, so may well flip, but we have most of our stack back outside it, to retake it if that happens. I want to found a replacement-town for it on the coastal river, 2SE of its current location, so a couple of Mules are chopping that Forest (4T) to turn any surviving pop-point(s) into Stewards(Frostling) -- and/or a Pandaren(Frostling), depending on how easily we can hold the town. Otherwise, the next Pandaren from Nassu can head up there.

By the time Moonhaven, Renoa, and RedIsle's replacement have sufficient Spirit + Dancer garrisons to relinquish their Rangers, the Hunters will be healed, so that stack can all head north to go after the Frostlings' Tundra-towns -- or they can go after Winterhaven.

In the meantime, the Mules can road SW along the coastal Grassland (i.e. staying as far from Winterhaven as possible!) to reach Moonhaven (former Frostopolis), and then over the BGrass towards Kalimsa. Kal will need a lot of improvement, because I want to put our Spire of the Sunset there (unfortunately, I forgot that Engineering enabled the SotS, so didn't have a prebuild going when it came in a couple of turns ago -- apologies for dropping the ball on that).

Though speaking of dropping the ball on builds... Assuming you are up to play the next 10T, please could you (also!) take a little more care over assigning builds this time? As you may already have seen from the turnlog, on my first turn of this set I got a bit upset when I saw that nearly all our towns were doing, well, almost the exact opposite of what they should have been doing! I re-assigned most builds to match the town's current strength(s) while also trying to minimising shield-wastage, and stuck with that pattern thereafter.

Obviously some towns will fall into more than one of the categories mentioned in my previous post, in which case builds need to be prioritised. I'd suggest the following:

ChiefsGuild (if >6 tiles from Dem) > LunarWell (if on a border/coast) > Mill > Fishery/Warehouse (if needed for Pop8+) > ScholarsQ (if high-commerce) > Barracks/Shipyard > Units (unless surprise-attacked again, in which case having regular units NOW is better than having veteran-units too late!)

As long as we are still at war, though, we should not be putting all our towns on building improvements simultaneously. We will need a continuous stream of units (~3:1 ratio of attackers:defenders) heading for the nearest war-front, both to garrison our front-line towns (1-2 Dancers + 1 Spirit), cover our conquests (max. 1 Spirit until resistance is quelled, with Rangers outside, to avoid losing multiple units to flips), and replace our losses.

Apart from the very important SotS, which helps decorrupt all our other towns, Wonders (including Small Wonders) should generally not be started anywhere, before we hit our free unit-limit (and preferably only started in towns which already have their needed improvements -- e.g. while it would be nice if we could fit the Beaver Dam into a build-list somewhere, this should only be arranged in a town which can finish it quickly, maybe 4-5T at most).
 

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  • ToC-SG1 MoonElves, 160 AD.SAV
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@tjs282

Hi TJS, thanks for straightening our game out! You are quite an elite strategist, and I continue to learn much from your game descriptions.

I knew my build choices were not good, but was not sure what to do with them. Appreciate you clarifying further, I will try my best to make an improvement on this, and more closely follow your advise, when I get a chance to put 10 more turns in!

Just happy that the Spire of the Sunset is soon coming to save us from our corrupt ways. 😂
 
I knew my build choices were not good, but was not sure what to do with them.
I know I can be a bit(!) anal about this stuff, but it really is key to playing effectively at higher levels. Re-reading the turnlog afterwards, I have to admit feeling a little embarrassed about the horrified screeching (and that was the self-censored version — the original was worse!), so I'm glad you seem to have taken it generally in good humour — hope we're still friends? ;)

If you're not sure what to build next, the simplest thing might be to note down my "building-priorities" from the previous post(s), compare that with what I've set our towns to build in the most recent save, and just do your best to emulate what I've done. You'll see that in general, I'm building our more expensive (/pop-costing) units in our larger high-shield (/food) towns, and concentrating on decorrupting and growing the smaller/newer ones up to Pop6-7.

If you're really not sure what to build in a small/ new/ outlying town, simply setting it to build Workers/Stewards is often a good choice — provided that "time to growth" remains shorter than "time to build". Once that changes — whether through higher SPT from recent tile-improvements, and/or reduced FPT because the newest citizens are now working low-food tiles — that's a good sign that it's time to start putting up "town-specific purpose" buildings. A similar principle of "build (more) Workers!" also applies to captured towns — with some provisos (see the Spoiler, below).

That said, even though we're 'only' 160 turns into the game, I'm already fairly confident that we will win it (yes, really!). Judging by the minimap, we seem to have control over more (and better-developed) territory on our continent than anyone else does, all that Jungle + Marsh will become powerful Grassland once it's finally been cleared (build more Workers!) ;) and we'll soon be adding the Frostlings' (generally good to great) land to our holdings as well. And according to CAII's reports, we are also already close to parity tech-wise with the most advanced AIs, so within another 20-30 turns, we should be unstoppable. So even if we make some mistakes, it won't be a major problem.

Forgot to specifically mention it in the handover, but while most of our attack-troops are still being sent north into Frostling territory, we need to minimise the risk of Kerri (or Bidhra, to a lesser extent) backstabbing us somewhere along our now rather convoluted south(west)ern border (the SotS should also help with that, if only for the additional Culture it will put in Kalimsa). So rather than allowing Kerri to build up her forces undisturbed near our lightly guarded rear, it would probably be helpful if you could bribe her into another MA against the Frostlings (and also sign an RoP; reduce SCI% temporarily prior to negotiations, if you need more income to pay pure per-turn), to keep her building and sending her (expensive!) military-units into the fray.

We can then just concentrate on taking the Frostling towns on the good terrain, and leave the Tundra-trash for her (which also means that her units will have further to travel before they reach their targets!). If we let the war go on long enough for that new MA + RoP to expire, we could then sign a PT with RemG ourselves (getting whatever we can for it), and redeploy the bulk of our forces to our towns along the Amazonian border while she's still busy kicking him. Once the RoP expires, her remaining attack-units will then be "trapped" up there — unless and until she ships them back home (or sneak-attacks us!).

Since the Frostlings are now well on their way to being evicted, we should probably also start thinking about our next target(s). I'm happy to let the Amazons live a little longer (us girls oughtta stick together, right? :lol: ), so — if Kerri's happy to leave us similarly undisturbed! — I think a short sharp war with the Beastmen would be in order, to grab that town they've settled near Ankor, signing peace before the first of their shipped units lands on us. Then rinse + repeat vs. the Lizards, to take their chokepoint-town between us and the Ramas.

And after that, the Ramas themselves? I really hate where Bidhra founded Hijra (sp.?), 1 tile off the coast (anal, remember? :lol: ), so I'd like to see it (re)moved (but see Spoiler). Plus, he has Furs near his capital, which will add to our Happiness...
Spoiler Capturing vs. razing... :
When I capture a foreign town that I don't intend to keep, rather than razing it — which gives me "bad-attitude" points with every other tribe (and especially the previous owner!) — I usually prefer (especially at difficulties as "low" as Monarch!) to capture it, sell its buildings, adjust the worked tiles to get net-zero FPT, and build/rush its pop-points into Workers/Stewards (zero growth means the Worker will — barring assimilations — most likely have foreign nationality, i.e. be maintenance-free!). This takes a bit longer (and costs more, short-term) than the more barbarous "burn it all down!" approach, but I'll usually also get more gold and Workers(foreign) out of it, than razing would have given me.

I also usually immediately stuff a captured town with all my nearby spare units which still have MP, switch on the Governor, and set it to building a Worker/Steward (depending on SPT). This ensures that it won't riot as resistors are quelled over the interturn (it might starve, but c'est la guerre...) — and then next turn I move everyone out, except for one cheap defender (a reg/vet Spirit would be a good choice for this game!).

My attack-stack will (if it's healthy/fast enough) then either move on to the next target — or fortify just outside the recent conquest, ready to attack it again if it's recaptured (or it flips).
OTOH, if Kerri gets froggy after the Frostlings are done — but also after we've redeployed along her border (might want 1 Treant per border-town, as well, though!) — we should be able to squash her without too much difficulty before we start in on the Ramas.
 
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@tjs282 of course we are still friends! Your contributions have helped immensely in making ToC as balanced and bug-free (almost 100% bug free) as it is today, so thank you!

Yes, I'll have to follow your advise more closely, good advice to just see what you are building in current towns and follow suit.
I feel the tensions rising with the Amazonians, so Ill try to fenegal those deals with our jungle lady friend. We are doing great in large part to you!

If it gets to it, I wonder what a fight with the beastmen would be like, they are always a pain to take down with all those extra hit points. 😂. I agree starting with an attack on the Frostling makes most sense as it stands!

When do you start building wonders usually? I usually start after the expansion phase, but not sure if that would be a good idea now that we are mid war (and still technically expanding).

Thanks for the advice of capturing vs razing. I like the mass workers idea. Btw, How often do you see city flips in your ToC games?
 
If it gets to it, I wonder what a fight with the beastmen would be like, they are always a pain to take down with all those extra hit points
Send enough Rangers, and the defenders' bonus-HP will make no difference — because they'll all be redlined before our Hunters and/or Banshees attack...!
When do you start building wonders usually? I usually start after the expansion phase, but not sure if that would be a good idea now that we are mid war (and still technically expanding).
I don't usually play for 20K, so generally not until I have a solid lock on my landmass/ the game.

On Continents maps like the current game (or 60–70% Archi maps), my usual initial aim (for the early-/mid-game) is to gain nearly-full control over my landmass — or at least my part of it, up to the most easily defensible chokepoints/ natural barriers (Mountains, Rivers etc.).
Spoiler In the Firaxis epic-game, playing at Emp/DG... :
During the early/mid game I'll be playing from (a long way) behind, so for the first ~150 turns I can't usually afford to spend shields on GWs at all!

Sure, if I have a near-monopoly on Ivory, I will usually try for the Statue of Zeus — but only because it's stupid-cheap, and ACavs are powerful units. And if I'm lucky enough to fluke an SGL for e.g. Writing or Philo (or my Philosophreebie) during the Ancient Age, I'll happily rush a powerful/ long-lasting Ancient GW like Colossus or Pyramids — but otherwise I'll leave the AI to "waste" their shields on the Ancient GWs (most of which expire).

If the game's going well, I might try (pre)building 1–2 of the more powerful Medieval GWs (e.g. SunTzu, CopsObs or Smiths) if that will help me towards my intended win-condition (e.g. by triggering a GA, boosting research, and/or paying maintenance costs), but otherwise the same principle usually still applies.

By the early Industrial Age, I should be (nearly) caught up with the AI and have plenty of spare towns/ excess productivity (if not, the game is probably already lost!), so at that point I can usually afford to (and nearly always do) dedicate a town to (pre)building Theory_Of_Evolution (+ Hoover_Dam on Continents/Pan-maps) — which in turn usually means I can grab all of the Modern GWs that I want (SETI, Internet, UN).
As you say, so long as we still have potentially dangerous neighbours on our landmass (and especially if we're already fighting them!), I'd rather concentrate on pumping out units, and improving our towns — let our neighbours/foes build the Wonders, for us to capture later!

We've made a good start by removing the Swarm so early, and we already have the Frostlings on the run as well. Though the Amazons are our next logical target by proximity (and land-quality!), while we're still at rough tech-parity I'd rather keep Kerri as an ally (but once we pull ahead of her, she better start looking for somewhere else to live!) :evil:
Spoiler That's why I think evicting the (Beasts and Lizards and) Ramas first would be the better course... :
The Ramas are already falling behind us tech-wise, and their land looks poorer (lots of Jungle?), so Bidhra will not be able to build many units after we DoW. The AI almost always goes overland if it can see a clear path, and avoids attacking very heavily garrisoned towns containing bombard-capable units when there are softer targets nearby. After we've wrested control of that chokepoint from Morgor, we can basically move every attack-unit we have into that town — or a new town which we might found in that area to replace it — which Bidhra will then bypass.

That will give us the opportunity to ping his nearby stacks with Dancers (to reduce D-values), then Rangers and maybe some Ballistae (to take off a bunch of HP), then use our remaining attack-units (especially our Hunter-Elder) to kill them. With a bit of luck, this will also help build up our Apprentice-numbers sufficiently to deal with the Amazons afterwards (or if the "Demon Hunter" tech comes in before we're ready to attack Kerri, we could upgrade them first).
That said, once our newer towns are solidly established (Pop7+) and able to take over general unit-building duties (including Pandaren-builds), Nassu or Dem or Renoa (but not all 3 of them at once!) could probably start (pre)building a GW if there's one available (or coming up) that you'd really like to have — but make sure it's a good one!

I generally prefer the "free-building in every town" GWs myself, but White Eagle is unfortunately already gone — and a lot of tribes are building the Gardens of T-Q, so there may be another cascade happening soon.
Btw, How often do you see city flips in your ToC games?
Flipping is primarily a function of relative Culture, with proximity to respective Capitals a major secondary factor, so (since I don't usually play for 100K either!) I pretty much expect them to happen during my epic-games at Emp/DG (where the AI will quite often get their 20-30% cheaper Temples + Libs up early, and snaffle all the early Wonders).

With respect to ToC, it's a bit more difficult to say, since I haven't played as many games, and nearly every game I have played has been on the newest release-version at the time (I think I started on v.1.3?), and/or at lower difficulties (Regent–Emp) than my epics.

If you recall, during the early part of that recent Rama-game (which I think was at Emperor — and v.2.7?), I suffered several town-losses to flips to the Hobbits in between our various wars. But once the Hobbits were gone and I controlled >90% of my Continent (including the Gardens, which I'd captured from the Hobbits), 2–3 foreign colonies/ conquests (belonging to the Goblins, Orcs and Dwarves) actually flipped to me instead (though never the Frostlings', oddly enough — despite those towns looking closer to my capital than they were to RemG's).
 
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@tjs282 sorry still haven't gotten a chance to play, but will soon.

I love the planned variety in units for our eventual attack. Should make it hard to counter our offensive. I love love Rangers. I think it's the animation lol.

I too like Wonders that give free buildings, but difficult to grab one before the AI. Personally, I'm all about the Clafestian Mounds, but building it often requires a partial sacrifice of early expansion capabilities. I like your idea of just taking it by force from others. 😂. But. I might prebuild in just one city. ;)

Interesting mechanic on ToC flips. But I guess that makes sense with the Gardens of TQ. Why do you usually play lower difficulty in ToC vs epic game? Do you find hegher difficulties in ToC harder? I only play Regent so not judging lol.
 
sorry still haven't gotten a chance to play, but will soon.
No need to apologise, I think it was understood when we started this that we'd be playing on an 'as and when' basis.
Why do you usually play lower difficulty in ToC vs epic game? Do you find hegher difficulties in ToC harder? I only play Regent so not judging lol.
For my first couple of games on a new mod, I usually play Regent (equivalent) so that I can be reasonably sure of avoiding an early-game defeat simply due to unfamiliarity and/or bad RNG. I think that's especially important if the mod is still a work-in-progress that I'm play-testing/ bug-hunting, since I'm then more likely to be able to run through the entire tech-tree (at least for a single tribe). But once I'm more familiar with what a mod has to offer (or am just playing for fun), I'll increase the difficulty for a greater challenge.

With respect to still usually playing Emp on ToC (vs. DG for C3C), that's mainly due to the units in ToC all being substantially more expensive. Even if I'm building Workers and improving my terrain more effectively than the AI, since the AI's shield-discount is a percentage of total build-cost, the absolute number of shields which I need to collect per turn to build my 'equivalent' unit (or counter-unit) to the ToC-tribes' units, needs to be that much higher, just to maintain parity.
Spoiler And playing my epics routinely at DG is also a relatively recent development... :

Though I documented a few (Small map, all-Random) games at DG back when I was still running my "pRNGods" thread (in 2015-ish?), I got discouraged by my general lack of success at the time, so stopped adding posts/games to that thread (because I figured it wasn't helpful/encouraging to be posting nothing but losses!). And I was still playing all my non-thread epics (and SGs) at Emperor anyway.

I only ramped back up to DG after participating in @jarred!'s "Space-Port" SG (DG, Large Continents Map, as Portugal, against all 8 Scientific Civs, and aiming for a Spaceship victory). When we won that game (early 2020), it kinda rammed home the message that Emp was really too easy for me (which stayed true even after I started using @Flintlock's patch). And it should be noted that out of dozens of (nearly-)all-Random DG starts over the past couple of years, I've abandoned most of them sooner or later (frequently when the first AI Cavalries show up, while I'm still fielding Spearmen!).

To date, I've only played out and won about 5 full games at DG (Sumerians, Aztecs, Mayans, Celts and most recently Carthage). I also had a pretty good second run with the Mayans just before the Carthage game, spoiled mainly by the fact that I overcrowded/ mis-sited my core towns. It kind of stalemated in the early Modern, with me and the Persians owning around 25-35% of our Pangaea each, but with every single mainland Iron-tile at the Persian end (though I could probably still win it through attritional grind to Domination, I'd kinda lost interest by that point).
 
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@tjs282 Ok this was a horrible session, please don't hate me. Took over an hour to get through 10 turns, because I'm thinking way more than I am used to. Hahah.

Turn 160:
Demasus Builds Ranger - switched to Windmill
Definale builds Lunar Well - switched to Fishery
Renoa Island bulids Cheftian's guild - switched to Banshee

Turn 161:
Another Sprite built at Jenova Ridge, switching to Watermill
Beginning to stack an army outside of Frostling capital, about to strike
Mtn. Dwarves built Tidesfall Castle!!! UGH

Turn 162:
Attacked an took over Frostlings' city of Winterhaven, no casualties
Changed my mind and switched to Settler Production in Renoa Island

Turn 163:
Fishery complete in Cape Bertonia, switched to Warehouse due to max pop at 7
Panderen Settler training begun in Winterhaven, to get rid of resisters
Forest Harvested near Redemption Isle! big boost to our production of a Nature's Steward

Turn 165:
Nature's steward done in Ankor Whil, pumping out a settler unit next

Turn 166:
Windmill done in Demasus, switched to Banshee
Pandaren settler done in Nassudru, switched to Nature's Steward
Moving a Nature's steward from Renoa island to Winterhaven to chop a tree down so we can get out a settler (to get rid of resisting population)
New Nature's Steward training started in Nassudru to make up for this
Nature's steward built in Ankor-While
Moving military stack out of Winterhaven towards Frostling lands in the North East (Coldstorm Keep)

Turn 168:
Took over Coldstorm Keep! Used a Work Mule to boost the culture! Boom level 2 culture baby!
Settler built in Renoa island, swithced to worker. Moving settler to the east to settle coast side
Barracks done in Nightglades

Turn 169:
Discovered tech Devotion

Turn 170:
City Feraias founded on eastern shoreline

HAND OVER turn 170
 

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OK, just got it and played 5T in.

You didn't leave me much to do with respect to the Frostlings! :thumbsup: Their last 2 towns had only a Bison+Sheep and Bison+GWolf respectively, and our Rangers and Hunters made short work of all of them: no losses suffered, and we even acquired a new Mule + Apprentice (no Dragons, but I remain hopeful!). Three turns to finish the campaign, and the first of those was just getting our units into position.

So Elvis RemG has now left the building (or at least, our bit of the world) -- but I have not signed peace yet, because there's no reason to. He doesn't have anything we really want, we don't have any War-Weariness, and I want to be free to retake any town which flips, without breaking a PT.

Though he still owns a couple of towns overseas (Frozen Pond Grove is definitely on the second major Continent, but is not his current capital -- that one looks like it might be on a small island), neither of them is particularly useful to us at this stage. Maybe 100 turns down the line, if he's still alive, if we're still at war, and if we want a beachhead over there, we can think about demanding FPG (if he still owns it!)...

After they lost all their potential targets, the Ramas immediately signed a PT with the Frostlings, and started moving their units back south. Our RoP with Brihad still has 1-2 turns to run, but even if his units aren't all the way gone before it expires I won't boot them, because I don't want to provoke a war with him quite yet.

I left a few Rangers + Dancers garrisoned oop north to guard against landings and flips, but most of our victorious troops are now shadowing the Ramas' retreat, and new units are mustering in Ashen and Nightglades, in preparation for evicting the Beasts and Lizards. (Once we have enough Spirits to replace the northern Rangers, the latter can be redeployed south as well).

We've now also met the Burning Legion (looks like they have a smallish island to themselves), and have Embassies with everyone. Here's what the minimap looks like as of 175 AD:

ToC-SG1 Minimap 175 AD.png


At some point we need to come to some agreement as to our long-term game-aim. I'm pretty confident that we will be able to overrun our remaining neighbours with equal ease, but (unless you've significantly lowered the Domination-limits?), owning our Continent will likely not be enough to win outright.

So either we then hunker down and go for a late-game win like the Spell or the Chateau, or (after taking down the Legion as well, just on general principle!) we will have to invade (someone on) the other Continent...
 
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