ADD: Can You Fake It 'Till You Make It?

[dusters]

Crazy determination can mean a lot of things, but willpower is an exhaustible resource and not a trait of moral strength.

The problem with requiring willpower to overcome something like ADHD is that willpower, being an exhaustible energy, and ADHD often being a disorder of reduced cognitive "energy" (often through dopaminergic channels) is that you're trying to fix having less by using more of what you have.

I can agree with this. However, ADHD means dissipated focus. Willpower to maintain focus is what counters ADHD. But again - ADHD requires something very interesting, complex to maintain focus or it gets lost easily.

Willpower here might mean simply spending a lot of time analysing oneself (and together with a therapist) to determine what could provide the most interest over a long run to maintain the said focus.

Finding appropriate job and hobbies for ADHD person is the lifelong task generally (imho).

 

[KMRblue1027]

*Snip*

Real ADHD takes months if not years to properly diagnose. It's not likely it's being over-diagnosed (In fact it's showing up a lot at college suggests that our primary education systems still are failing to properly detect it, at least here in The States) rather people don't want to do the follow up work and just throw medication at the problem. If we actually did the effort to see how things would play out first it could be a lot simpler but more expensive process rather than, oh here's some Riddlin, see if it make you kid clam down or become more hyper. Many theories seem to point to the kids who go play sports are more likely to have ADHD than the introverts (Or at least more likely for it to not being detected), possibly explaining things like why MLB has over twice the rate of ADHD as the general population

Real ADHD you actually think slightly differently, your mind tends to latch on to specific things for short periods of time than something pulls you off to the next idea. It's why people like myself struggle in timed environments you could go into say a test sit down work for a bit until you hear someone banging their pencil, than you starting thinking about pencils - what type is it, what color, where was it made, stupid **** like that - for a awhile until your like oh crap I wasted 15 minutes. Meds can help somewhat on keeping you on track but it can't completely change that flow like thought process.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

But the thing is that this thought process you just described isn't as such something unusual, but rather just stuff people do. Our brains simply aren't optimized to handle the demands of our modern systems. That is why many people are so exhausted after a day of work, even if the physical part isn't demanding at all*. Modern work life is just immense stress for our brain. School is a lot more relaxed, the demand is still very unusual in terms of what our brain is optimized for. So when in school those brains have to adapt anyway, there is a lot of friction going on. Especially for young children it is normal for thoughts to wander. I would say people who don't know this are the actual unusual ones.
I get that you probably mean a special intensity and frequency of such thought wandering stuff happening. But there are so many reasons for the trouble of finding focus.
Let's assume there is a couple of ways this manifests that it is right to call it a mental condition which needs some kind of treatment / will be a chronic and considerable issue for the one affected. Then I strongly assume that those couple of ways are among even more ways which amount to no more than normal development stages of a young human being / a difficult phase / a quirk.
It simply is not natural for a young human being to sit still and stay highly alert listening to abstract stuff half the day 5 days a week. It is absolutely to be expected that trying to enforce this life style means a lot of trouble. And I think that goes to show why just labeling kids as little princesses and princes is not a satisfactory explanation for this trouble (though I tend to agree that it also is an issue).

*and this is why by now modern economies are self-defeating in their use for life quality, to pick up on a pet issue of mine

 

[KMRblue1027]

You cannot even begin the process of diagnoses of ADHD until at least six and usually not until much older than that. IIRC the average age of the process starting is around 11ish, if an 11 year old cannot sit still at all and isn't even remotely able to pay attention there's a problem. Now I was diagnosed much earlier at 7 due to the fact that I also have Type I Bipolar disorder (I was a terrible child ) and they go hand and hand but that's not even close to normal.

The diagnoses process works based on general targets with modifications of age and background. When someone is far behind in how their attention and activity levels should be they start keeping a closer look (This has changed over time the margin before they start is much smaller now than even 15 years ago, maybe this should be reviewed), in practice this is supposed to be a long term study that should continue until they leave the education system, because there's always going to be outliers that aren't a problem. Unfortunately as I said before it's ultimately the parents fault for thinking the meds are some kind of magic bullet and they don't need to continue to seek treatment and modifications.

Often kids are just developmentally behind and "grow out of it" as people say but something like 45% DO NOT. Most mental disorders come from some feature or flaw in our evolution (Bipolar, ADHD, Autism, I could go on) but to throw you arms up and ignore the fact that this minority of the population (It's less than 5% of adults) is just "different" and we shouldn't do anything about is laughable at best. We need significantly more research into the science of the brain to really understand how these disorders work.

 

[Phrossack]

But the thing is that this thought process you just described isn't as such something unusual, but rather just stuff people do. Our brains simply aren't optimized to handle the demands of our modern systems. That is why many people are so exhausted after a day of work, even if the physical part isn't demanding at all*. Modern work life is just immense stress for our brain. School is a lot more relaxed, the demand is still very unusual in terms of what our brain is optimized for. So when in school those brains have to adapt anyway, there is a lot of friction going on. Especially for young children it is normal for thoughts to wander. I would say people who don't know this are the actual unusual ones.
I get that you probably mean a special intensity and frequency of such thought wandering stuff happening. But there are so many reasons for the trouble of finding focus.
Let's assume there is a couple of ways this manifests that it is right to call it a mental condition which needs some kind of treatment / will be a chronic and considerable issue for the one affected. Then I strongly assume that those couple of ways are among even more ways which amount to no more than normal development stages of a young human being / a difficult phase / a quirk.
It simply is not natural for a young human being to sit still and stay highly alert listening to abstract stuff half the day 5 days a week. It is absolutely to be expected that trying to enforce this life style means a lot of trouble. And I think that goes to show why just labeling kids as little princesses and princes is not a satisfactory explanation for this trouble (though I tend to agree that it also is an issue).

*and this is why by now modern economies are self-defeating in their use for life quality, to pick up on a pet issue of mine

Well, that's weird. Somebody actually agrees with me about this.

 

[Hygro]

I really frown on using drugs to treat ADD. When I was coming up you'd use a paddle or a switch. That would provoke an emotional response from the child which would alter his or her brain chemistry to treat the condition in the manner God intended.

Spare not the rod.

Instead we randomly inject chemicals in a mostly experimental parody of kindness and wisdom.

And often spoil the child.

Everyone I know taking regular ADHD medication (pretty well only amphetamine, because methylphenidate is real hit or miss) is doing really well in life. High paying and rewarding jobs, prestigious law schools, cool friend groups, fun lifestyles.... I don't get the point of growing up thinking you should be ashamed of having trouble filtering information, which is most of what ADHD is as KMRBlue already described.

That information filtering loss can come from deficits, in which using abuse just means limiting that kid. It means they have the cognitive deficit that the body chooses to take away from filtering resources, and now on top you're adding a constant vigilance against abuse (basically a perpetually shame mechanism which is often seretonergic) which directs energy back to the filter but inefficiently via a weaker function, which takes energy away from their core strengths.

And the ADHD can also come not from deficits but some other cause, in which case the abuse is just asking the kid to dismiss their creative advantage and joy in favor of a fear response for being different.

What you're describing is a lose-lose combo.

I can agree with this. However, ADHD means dissipated focus. Willpower to maintain focus is what counters ADHD. But again - ADHD requires something very interesting, complex to maintain focus or it gets lost easily.

That means substituting one form of energy and focus for another. I'm not sure it's optimal, though it's a tool.

Willpower here might mean simply spending a lot of time analysing oneself (and together with a therapist) to determine what could provide the most interest over a long run to maintain the said focus.

But that's not willpower that's psychotherapy. We can't just substitute meanings of words like that

Unless you mean using your willpower to stay focused on treatment that carries you the rest of the way, in which case, I think that's the winning strategy.

Finding appropriate job and hobbies for ADHD person is the lifelong task generally (imho).

definitely

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Wouldn't amphetamine make everyone "better"?
Shouldn't we all be taking amphetamine?

 

[Farm Boy]

It's always been the all American drug. Can you think of one that fits better with our national image of success? Bootstraps. Just work hard enough and it's the dreeeeeeam.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I really want my amphetamine now

 

[Narz]

Often kids are just developmentally behind and "grow out of it" as people say but something like 45% DO NOT.

Do you have a source for this. From what I've read almost ALL kids with ADD become "normal" (or more functional anyway) as they grow up. I've only met one adult with the severe led of ADD symptoms you'd see in a child. ADD symptoms are pretty much a normal part of adolescence for a large percentage of kids. And as I said before, the payoff is far superior to the price. I'd venture to say it's the "normals" who are the deficient ones.

 

[Hygro]

Wouldn't amphetamine make everyone "better"?
Shouldn't we all be taking amphetamine?

not really, it boosts some chemicals and then suppresses some others. It can definitely reduce performance

 

[KMRblue1027]

Do you have a source for this. From what I've read almost ALL kids with ADD become "normal" (or more functional anyway) as they grow up. I've only met one adult with the severe led of ADD symptoms you'd see in a child. ADD symptoms are pretty much a normal part of adolescence for a large percentage of kids. And as I said before, the payoff is far superior to the price. I'd venture to say it's the "normals" who are the deficient ones.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19129549

It's 30-50% on the most recent study. The 45% was from an older Harvard study that seems to have disappeared off the internet.

Wouldn't amphetamine make everyone "better"?
Shouldn't we all be taking amphetamine?

No, not at all. With ADHD anything that falls under stimulants like amphetamine, caffeine, cocaine, I could go on, has the opposite as normal biological effects. That's why stimulants increase attention so effectively when you have ADHD as its literally backwards (The inverse of this is depressants act as stimulants so someone with ADHD gets hyper as hell when drunk, it's pretty funny). If you just shot up everyone with stimulants they'd just get dependent on it for normal energy levels like something like 60% of Americans already are for caffeine.

 

[Zelig]

ADD is <snip>. It's neither a deficit nor a disorder.

I agree with this.

People with more typical minds are just jealous & school-systems are not prepared to handle kids too smart or energetic to sit thru their drivel.

This is silly, you're just projecting.

There's nothing to suggest that people with ADD/ADHD symptoms are more intelligent than those without, or that people without ADD symptoms have more "typical" minds unless you're defining typical as simply a function of not presenting ADD symptoms.

 

[Narz]

Isn't the opposite of disordered typical?

While ADD people might not necessarily be more intelligent I'd say they're probably more creative as a whole, if only because they have to be to get thru life.