Adding a new civ: Lithuania

[AbsintheRed]

Great news, everyone!
It seems that we will probably add Lithunia to RFCE!!
Will be very good for gameplay, as north-eastern Europe had a huge void before (both power- and territory-wise)


Right now the plans are:
(but avaiting further suggestions)

Spawn: 1236 AD
(might be moved earlier, but must be connected to a fairly important historical event)

UP: The power of the Pagan faith. +1 Happy and +2 Culture in all cities so long as you don't have state religion
(Lithuania was pagan - and the only pagan european major power - till the end of 14th century)

UHVs:

1. Do not declare a state religion until 1377 AD / 1386 AD
   (till Jogaila got on throne / was baptized)
2. Control the territory from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea (including Kiev and Novogorod) in 1410 AD
   (greatest territorial extent under Vytautas)
3. Conquer or Vassalize Poland and Moscow.

Leaders: As of now 3 names came up

1. Mindaugas (1200-1236-1263) - first Grand Duke of Lithania
2. Gediminas (1275-1316-1341) - resisted the attempts to Christianize his country
3. Vytautas (1350-1392-1430) - greatest territorial extent

They are pretty close on the timeline, so max 2 leaders should be added IMO.
Also, both Mindaugas or Gediminas represents pagan Lithuania, so we shouldn't have both
Art suggestion for the early leader, and here it is for the late leader

We also need help in:

• ideas for UU and UB
• lithuanian city names
• updating the whole city map generally

It would be great if someone would volunteer to do the city map updating
It's a lot of work and historical research if you don't know much about early lithuanian history. And neither of us do -that- much. It should be easy to a lithuanian though ,)
Here are 3Miro's instructions if someone really helps in this:

Spoiler :

For the city names, use the WB. Basically start a game (preferably with the Byzantines), enter the WB and put labels on every tile that we would expect to have it conquered or settled by Lithuania. Than I can convert the WB to a Python array (I have been working one couple of such utilities for some time now).

The rules for city names are:
- Names are in English alphabet avoiding special characters whenever possible.
- Names must correspond to a local pronunciation, not a westernization of one name or another (like Slavs would not say Ragusa, but Dubrovnik).
- Names must align with the names on the neighbour countries' city map (Moscow and Poland in this case)
- Except for capitals, pre-build independents and perhaps some very special city, all names should occupy territory of no more than 2x2 (otherwise you get two cities with the same name).

Alright, that's it for now
I will edit the post with the upcoming suggestions and ideas

 

[3Miro]

Another note on the WB. One should probably use the WB and build a few Russian and Polish cities so that Lithuania's names would align with other name-maps.

 

[merijn_v1]

Just a quick look in the database:

Flag:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=1649 (most left, 4th of above.)

Leaderheads:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15509
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11737

Complete Civ:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14349

 

[AbsintheRed]

Another note on the WB. One should probably use the WB and build a few Russian and Polish cities so that Lithuania's names would align with other name-maps.

Added, but this is hard to test
When you place a city in the WB, it won't choose the name from the city map, but from the city list in the CivilizationInfos.xml

 

[merijn_v1]

We used to have Micbic for the citynamemaps. But unfortunately, he hasn't been around for quite some time.

 

[AbsintheRed]

@merijn: I already suggested exactly those LHs for the civ, so yeah we agree
(Even the links are already in the OP)
Actually I like the bottom left flag better, and it's for Lithuania too

EDIT: the 3rd flag in the 5th row is a third version for it
It also seems nice

 

[3Miro]

OK, we agree on the leaderheads. Mindaugas and Vytautas seem most appropriate

For the unit, I have to look at all the techs/units that we have now, but some infantry with boost vs. Heavy Cavalry (at Battle of Grunwald they defeated a huge army of Teutonic Knights).

I like the Courthouse also, just a note on the name though: Vivodeship is Slavic, the right Lithuanian name is: Vaivadija.

Vivoda or Voevoda comes from war and lead, i.e. combat leader, captain (or general).

 

[ezzlar]

Are the Keshiks heavy cavalry? They are likely to face the barbs that the Kievans cant handle. Usually the heavy cavalry of Teutonic and Templars are never built by Poland so in reality they wont ever see them as long as Poland is a buffer (Germanys and Frances war maps dont reach that far).

An earlier starting date would be good. Unless totally ahistorical.

Poland could probably need a large buff if squeezed between two civs.

 

[merijn_v1]

No, Keshiks are light cavalry. (Which is completely historic.)

But this remindes me of this. If Lithuania starts at 1236 AD, they will almost certainly fight the Keshiks. But they don't have time to build of their defences. How will they deal with them? (I don't like extra units at the start, because they can be used for other things, making Lithuania OP.)

 

[3Miro]

Keshiks are light. If we associate the Lithuanian UU with the battle of 1410AD, this would be too late. They will have to use regular units until then. Alternatively, we can give them something to guard them from the Mongols (earlier Pike unit with large bonus vs light to overpower the Keshiks), thus ensuring their survival.

We can make the Lithuanian start 1009AD, since this is the earliest record that we have, but just give them one settler and a worker, so they will grow slowly. Otherwise, they will expand in the Russian vacuum and become a superpower. Independent Novogorod would hardly keep them at bay.

 

[3Miro]

But this remindes me of this. If Lithuania starts at 1236 AD, they will almost certainly fight the Keshiks. But they don't have time to build of their defences. How will they deal with them? (I don't like extra units at the start, because they can be used for other things, making Lithuania OP.)

Keshiks are barbs, we can give Lithuania more "free" wins vs the Keshiks.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Keshiks are light. If we associate the Lithuanian UU with the battle of 1410AD, this would be too late. They will have to use regular units until then. Alternatively, we can give them something to guard them from the Mongols (earlier Pike unit with large bonus vs light to overpower the Keshiks), thus ensuring their survival.

We can make the Lithuanian start 1009AD, since this is the earliest record that we have, but just give them one settler and a worker, so they will grow slowly. Otherwise, they will expand in the Russian vacuum and become a superpower. Independent Novogorod would hardly keep them at bay.

1009 is too early IMO
I would rather keep the spawn date in the late 12th - middle 13th century, get their UU to have bonus against both heavy and light cavalry (with huge bonus against light), and give them 3-4 UUs, 2 settlers and nothing else at start.
With those extra free wins against barbs, Keshiks won't be a problem for them.

 

[ezzlar]

The later start, the greater risk of one of the AIs gone wild and dominating the game.

 

[3Miro]

The later start, the greater risk of one of the AIs gone wild and dominating the game.

Not for that region, there is nothing there. 1236AD should be OK for Lithuania, they will keep small int he beginning, defending mostly and then get a chance to expand int he void left after the Mongols.

 

[ezzlar]

Domination is usually about wonder/techwise.

 

[AbsintheRed]

General tech rate will be reduced in the next version

 

[3Miro]

On second thought about Lithuania: Do not add the civilization just yet. You can add the UU and UB as well as the leaders, but I will have to change the C++ before we can add them to the XML. I need to change the XML scheme to accommodate the dynamic civ names properly, otherwise the game will probably crash.

Also, I should be the one to add them to the WB and Python files (after the XML has been updated).

Basically, if you want to add something now, add the UU, UB and Leaderhead (warn me about the UU and UB to sync it with Python).

 

[AbsintheRed]

I didn't plan to add anything right now
Will wait for your changes

 

[TheCzech]

So... will this be in the beta 7 then? Also about that, have there been changes to any of the other leader heads; Barbarossa for example?

 

[yogiebere]

where would they start?

currently lithuania has a crapload of moorland, most of that would have to be removed