Adolf Hitler

[Afforess]

Some of you given absolute power would turn into monsters. Some would become benevolent despots.

And some of us would make games...

But your point is good, and 100% correct.

 

[civ_king]

Hilarious. Shame on the Italian and German gov'ts. Luckily, if they made a billboard like that in America, our gov't would not remove it.



Looks realistic enough to be funny and awesome. And it's in English. I'll have to see it.

actually it was the Israelis not Italians... makes much more sense from that perspective

Once a Hindu kid at my school had a swastika on his bind and the administration was brilliant and tried to expel needless to say it didn't work so well, all because of 0 tolerance policy

 

[Crusis]

Sort of crazy because the swastika has been a symbol of various religions and groups for as long as humans have used symbology.

 

[os79]

Gee, you're gone for a few days and you miss a good Hitler debate.

Hitler certainly shouldn't be left out for moral reasons, but for legal reasons as Zappara said. Germany is the only home country of the three leading murderers of the 20th century that had the decency to take a stand against the glorification of that murderer.

Both Stalin and Mao killed more people than Hitler. I'm not belittling the evil of Hitler, I'm saying that he wasn't alone in that evil. If you step back into History, there are dozens of men who are no different than Hitler. How many cities in history have been sacked and every man woman and child killed? In East Germany after WWII every woman was raped repeatedly by the occupying Red Army. The Japanese massacred millions of Koreans and Chinese, and set up rape houses for their soldiers. They ate the livers of their conquered foes.

Barbarism isn't limited to Hitler, it's just that Hitler was a Western leader from a civilized nation therefore had a much larger impact on the psyche of the Western world. We expected the communists to act like animals. After all, they're just communists. We expected the Japanese to act like animals, after all just 100 years prior they were beheading people with swords and tearing their own guts out. But the Germans? We live NEXT to GERMANS! Surely they can't be baking Jews. Noooooo, let's put our heads in some sand.

Hitler hit us harder because he was closer to what we thought we were. But he was no more of a monster than thousands of characters from history. Vlad the Impaler? That countess from Transylvania who bathed in the blood of 600+ young maidens as a youth elixir? Genghis Khan? The Romans crucifying thousands on the road out of Rome? Nero killing Christians? Osama bin Laden? Saddam?

Hitler is dime a dozen. Some of you given absolute power would turn into monsters. Some would become benevolent despots.

Someone asked the question "what does it simulate in Civ when your armies conquer a city?". If you were the aggressor, it simulates the German expansion into France, the Japanese conquest of Manchuria, the Chinese conquest of Tibet, or the Russian annexation of Eastern Europe.

Just my point(s) of view, really. But Hitler was nothing special in his evil, but he was absolute evil like so many others. To accord him special status as an anti-christ gives him status he is not worthy of.

:waving hands: (Deaf's clapping hands)

You nailed it for once and all!

 

[Galacticat42]

I just find it funny people always think of Hitler in a bad light. He was a smart man but was corrupted by power and his adviser Himmler. Hitler made the autobahn and jump started the Volkswagen business, only in his older days of reign did he start to lose his mind, calling out army squads that either died or never existed. It's Himmler that gave Hitler the idea that Jews were bad and white skinned, blond hair, blue eyed people were superior. WWII however was Hitler but Himmler pushed it overboard. So all in all I'd say I'd have to agree that Hitler was not as nearly as bad as a lot of other figures through history. Only the fact that, as Crusis pointed out, that it was so close and unreal because it was in a 'civilized' area and that a lot of people put Himmler's suggestions as though it was Hitler's original ideas. I'm not saying that Hitler is excused from actually authorizing it but that it wasn't his intent until Himmler came along.

 

[cheesemijit]

I just find it funny people always think of Hitler in a bad light. He was a smart man but was corrupted by power and his adviser Himmler. Hitler made the autobahn and jump started the Volkswagen business, only in his older days of reign did he start to lose his mind, calling out army squads that either died or never existed. It's Himmler that gave Hitler the idea that Jews were bad and white skinned, blond hair, blue eyed people were superior. WWII however was Hitler but Himmler pushed it overboard. So all in all I'd say I'd have to agree that Hitler was not as nearly as bad as a lot of other figures through history. Only the fact that, as Crusis pointed out, that it was so close and unreal because it was in a 'civilized' area and that a lot of people put Himmler's suggestions as though it was Hitler's original ideas. I'm not saying that Hitler is excused from actually authorizing it but that it wasn't his intent until Himmler came along.

How do you know this?, could you post a link to this information because its new to me.

Personnally i think he should be included. HOWEVER, i don't matter and if it's offensive to even a few people then it shouldnt be put in, pollitical correctness is a good thing.

 

[os79]

How do you know this?, could you post a link to this information because its new to me.

New to me too. Best strategy is to read Hitler biographies. I know it will be awkward to walk around with Hitler's biographies in your arms but... That is how you can confirm or devalue claims about Hitler because biographers already went through some disgusting and boring primary sources for us.

 

[Galacticat42]

How do you know this?, could you post a link to this information because its new to me.

Personnally i think he should be included. HOWEVER, i don't matter and if it's offensive to even a few people then it shouldnt be put in, pollitical correctness is a good thing.

Textbooks from 10th grade world history (not sure if Britain's grade school's education courses are the same) and 12th grade's WWII class textbooks.

 

[Master176281]

I just find it funny people always think of Hitler in a bad light. He was a smart man but was corrupted by power and his adviser Himmler.

I definitely think of Hitler in a bad light and he was not smart and was not corrupted by power(EDIT of course he was corrupted by power but that was not the origin of his ill ideas). The origin of his insane ideas can be found during his childhood and not only in his older days. I agree that Hitler should not be censored because confrontation is better than ignoring his terror regime but saying he was not bad and was smart is in my opinion not correct.

I am from Germany and I think in our education we are very well informed about this dark chapter of our history but nevertheless there are sadly enough people even nowadays following his ill ideas.

 

[2ndimpression]

I am just glad we live in a world where we are free to have this conversation.

 

[NBAfan]

I do not think Hitler should be censored as who knows what could be censored next. Crusis sumed it up nicely.

I am just glad we live in a world where we are free to have this conversation.

Well said

 

[Galacticat42]

I definitely think of Hitler in a bad light and he was not smart and was not corrupted by power. The origin of his insane ideas can be found during his childhood and not only in his older days.

And that's your opinion, there's nothing wrong with that however the autobahn was the first freeway on the planet, the USA took the idea of an inter-national freeway system from Germany's Autobahn which happens to have been made by the Nazi regime which was after Hitler joined but before he took office. How legitimate all these sources are aren't 100% liable as a textbook may say one thing but Wiki may say another, both able to be censored by governments and/or the source owner.

 

[Afforess]

I definitely think of Hitler in a bad light

Who doesn't?

and he was not smart

No, he was a genius. He invented the first cruise missiles, was also inventing the nuclear bomb, and if not for America, would have undoubtedly defeated all of Europe.

and was not corrupted by power(EDIT of course he was corrupted by power but that was not the origin of his ill ideas). The origin of his insane ideas can be found during his childhood and not only in his older days. I agree that Hitler should not be censored because confrontation is better than ignoring his terror regime but saying he was not bad and was smart is in my opinion not correct.

You're incorrect here. He was corrupted by power, but he wasn't insane until near the end of WWII. Or are you telling me that all it takes is a bit of insanity to conquer the world.

You can't hope to suppress Hitler by belittling him; rather, learn from him and avoid the same mistakes. By belittling him, you instead belittle the leaders of the Allies in WWII. If Hitler was such an idiot, then Churchill and FDR must have been real bumbling fools to take so long to crush him. Since that is obviously incorrect, he must have been a genius. The real cause of WWII was the aftermath of WWI. The Allies destroyed the German Economy, the German Spirit, and nearly, the German country itself. Such a broken people had no choice but to join with a charismatic new leader who promised revenge.

I am from Germany and I think in our education we are very well informed about this dark chapter of our history but nevertheless there are sadly enough people even nowadays following his ill ideas.

Seeing from the way your country tries to shun everything to do with Hitler, I doubt it. You seem gravely misinformed.

 

[Master176281]

And that's your opinion, there's nothing wrong with that however the autobahn was the first freeway on the planet, the USA took the idea of an inter-national freeway system from Germany's Autobahn which happens to have been made by the Nazi regime which was after Hitler joined but before he took office. How legitimate all these sources are aren't 100% liable as a textbook may say one thing but Wiki may say another, both able to be censored by governments and/or the source owner.

That's true. I just wanted to say that in my opinion even his achievements cannot compensate his evil deeds and the lives of many men (jews as germans as people from other nations) can not be compared to scientific or constructional achievements.

Therefore the dualism bad light - good light is in my opinion heavily shifted towards bad light.

 

[NBAfan]

Who doesn't?



No, he was a genius. He invented the first cruise missiles, was also inventing the nuclear bomb, and if not for America, would have undoubtedly defeated all of Europe.


You're incorrect here. He was corrupted by power, but he wasn't insane until near the end of WWII. Or are you telling me that all it takes is a bit of insanity to conquer the world.

You can't hope to suppress Hitler by belittling him; rather, learn from him and avoid the same mistakes. By belittling him, you instead belittle the leaders of the Allies in WWII. If Hitler was such an idiot, then Churchill and FDR must have been real bumbling fools to take so long to crush him. Since that is obviously incorrect, he must have been a genius. The real cause of WWII was the aftermath of WWI. The Allies destroyed the German Economy, the German Spirit, and nearly, the German country itself. Such a broken people had no choice but to join with a charismatic new leader who promised revenge.



Seeing from the way your country tries to shun everything to do with Hitler, I doubt it. You seem gravely misinformed.

Hitler was very smart as he was trying to forge an Allience with Britton. Of course Britton declered war on Germany later.
I would argue that Hitler went insane earler: One because he foolishly declered war on America Two, He killed himself before the war ended.

 

[Afforess]

Hitler was very smart as he was trying to forge an Allience with Britton. Of course Britton declered war on Germany later.
I would argue that Hitler went insane earler: One because he foolishly declered war on America Two, He killed himself before the war ended.

1.) Japan forced it early, with Pearl Harbor. He really had no choice after that.

2.) The war was over when he died. The Allies had Berlin surrounded. One could argue that his sanity had returned for that action. A madman would have kept living...

 

[Galacticat42]

Who doesn't?
No, he was a genius. He invented the first cruise missiles, was also inventing the nuclear bomb, and if not for America, would have undoubtedly defeated all of Europe.

Well I'd say America helped tip the scale(specially with Patton), but I think turning away from the UK and calling off that blitzkrieg was more of Germany's undoing, fighting the USSR at the same time as US, UK and the remaining French forces that fled during the invasion.

 

[Master176281]

Seeing from the way your country tries to shun everything to do with Hitler, I doubt it. You seem gravely misinformed.

Sorry to say this but I am studying History (I know that being a student does not protect from foolishness) but I think despite maybe the majority in my country I'm not as bad informed as you might think.

Just an easy example:

You can see his evil ideas in his book "Mein Kampf". At this point he was not corrupted by power. His ideas for this book have been formed by The Protocols of the Elders of Zion which even at this time it has been proofed to be fake.

@Afforess: I really like your Mod compilation but I am a little sad that you are judging about people you do not know and denying them competence. Especially as we as all the others have the same opinion of not ignoring Hitler and let him be a historical person like the others.
As a german i am a little sensitive to the bad light commentary.

 

[Afforess]

Sorry to say this but I am studying History (I know that being a student does not protect from foolishness) but I think despite maybe the majority in my country I'm not as bad informed as you might think.

Just an easy example:

You can see his evil ideas in his book "Mein Kampf". At this point he was not corrupted by power. His ideas for this book have been formed by The Protocols of the Elders of Zion which even at this time it has been proofed to be fake.

@Afforess: I really like your Mod compilation but I am a little sad that you are judging about people you do not know and denying them competence. Especially as we as all the others have the same opinion of not ignoring Hitler and let him be a historical person like the others.
As a german i am a little sensitive to the bad light commentary.

Backwards First,

I was serious about that comment. I agree that Hitler was an evil man. However, he was not stupid.

I didn't say that you lacked competence, just that you had been misinformed. That says nothing about your intelligence, just who your sources of knowledge are.

Mainly, I dispute your point that Hitler was stupid.

 

[Master176281]

Mainly, I dispute your point that Hitler was stupid.

No he was not stupid just wanted to point out that most of his ideology has been built up from the Zion protocols which are fake and therefore he absorbed ideas from this fake. And one can discuss if absorbing ideas without critical analysis is intelligent but he was not stupid you are right.