Advice Needed on a Prince Game

[Tycho]

In an attempt to try and become better at the game to get up to higher levels of difficulty, I decided to step out of the comfort zone of Noble difficulty that I have worn a groove into and decided that it was time to try my hand at a higher level of difficulty. I've only played at a higher level once before, and I mostly Quecha rushed the enemy into oblivion (which doesn't really count as winning all that much). Any advice would be appreciated for this game.

Alright, so here is my starting location.

Settings:
Leader: Bismarck
Civilization: Germany
Prince difficulty
Continents
Large world size
Temperate climate
Low sea level
Ancient starting era
Marathon game speed

I've used the Germans plenty of times before, rather enjoy their unique building and the Panzer in late game warfare. I'm rather tempted to move onto the nearby hills to try and snag the Clams for later use, or should I stay where I am and make the best of my situation? I know that the second my city is established, I need to train a warrior to protect the city from barbs.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Ghpstage]

I'm rather tempted to move onto the nearby hills to try and snag the Clams for later use, or should I stay where I am and make the best of my situation?

Settle in place will already get both clams, theres no reason to waste a good hill tile and a turn by moving.

I know that the second my city is established, I need to train a warrior to protect the city from barbs.

No you don't need to, build a worker first while researching Agri to improve the corn and then build a few warriors while growing and use them to spawnbust.

 

[CreeDakota]

I would not move your settler. SIP is not the best city ever but is fine. Worker first teching agriculture. Second tech likely either fishing or BW depending on the what your early scouting has revealed.

EDIT: or I could have typed 'what Ghpstage said'

 

[Tycho]

Ah, thank you both Ghpstage and CreeDakota. I'll tech up Agriculture and see what my scouts find next.

EDIT: And it appears I have marble directly south of the city, just need the culture to expand.

 

[Tycho]

Spoiler :

Alright, so Berlin has been established and a nice hunk of marble has been found south of the capital; that will come in handy in case I decide to build something like the Temple of Artemis or something else of the sort, and will be useful just for the hammers if I don't opt for wonders.

Spoiler :

The scouts move south to see whatever is down there. Pigs and more clams makes that spot look like a place for possibly a new city? Plenty of food but an apparent lack of hammers.

Spoiler :

That didn't take too long. Looks like the Portugese are here.

Spoiler :

Edge of their territory is extremely close to mine, a worrying prospect if they decide to build up their military and declare war on me.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Alright, so far in these explorations, we have managed to discover plenty of resources, but not a lot of variety yet. Still trying to decide upon where to settle after a settler is built later on in Berlin.

Spoiler :

A snippet of Portugese territory, and it looks like Lisbon is rather undefended... possible attack that could be made to take the city?

Spoiler :

And we run into the Russians soon afterwards. Starting to get crowded on the continent.

Spoiler :

First worker finishes up. I put him to sleep for the moment while I wait for agriculture to finish teching up.

Spoiler :

This continent must be very small... already found Russian territory. Someone is going to have to give eventually.

Spoiler :

Someone snagged Bhuddism already, which eliminates it as a possible candidate for the state religion.

Spoiler :

And there it is; Agriculture has been teched up. Got one worker moving in for the corn and another being assembled in about two dozen turns or so, a little less once we get that farm going.

Still trying to decide upon what techs to shoot for next... fishing seems like a no brainer, but archery seems like a good pick as well if I want to defend my city from barbs once the worker finishes up. Opinions on the tech?

Spoiler :

Fishing (18 turns)
Archery (23 turns)
Mysticism (23 turns)
The Wheel (28 turns)
Masonry (31 turns)
Animal Husbandry (33 turns)
Bronze Working (46 turns)

 

[lymond]

few comments:

1) resource bubbles are your friend (and ours )

2) put your pics in spoiler tags with so many

3) I suggest going BW next so that you can chop out wbs, workers and settlers. It will get your empire up faster. You need to clear a hill or two for mines too.

 

[Tycho]

few comments:

1) resource bubbles are your friend (and ours )

2) put your pics in spoiler tags with so many

3) I suggest going BW next so that you can chop out wbs, workers and settlers. It will get your empire up faster. You need to clear a hill or two for mines too.

Ah, thank you Lymond, I'll edit those spoilers in right now .

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

First worker finishes up. I put him to sleep for the moment while I wait for agriculture to finish teching up.

Why not mine the hill while you wait for agriculture to finish teching up? Worried you'll forget to cancel the order?

Your scouts job is to find your next cities; when that's done, he can then wander all over the continent to get his mack on. First things first.

Second worker doesn't make sense to me here - after all, didn't you just have the first worker sitting around with nothing to do?

Some warrior builds to keep an eye on the black is probably a better choice than teching archery.

 

[Tycho]

Why not mine the hill while you wait for agriculture to finish teching up? Worried you'll forget to cancel the order?

Your scouts job is to find your next cities; when that's done, he can then wander all over the continent to get his mack on. First things first.

Second worker doesn't make sense to me here - after all, didn't you just have the first worker sitting around with nothing to do?

Some warrior builds to keep an eye on the black is probably a better choice than teching archery.

Not worried to forget the cancellation of the order, just need the food more than the hammers so that the city can expand faster once it's done producing workers.

Scouts are doing what they are supposed to be doing; scouting. I know that they are supposed to find my next cities and they are doing so very nicely.

Building another worker also speeds up the process of the improvements that are created on the terrain.

Also, a warrior is being trained after I finish up with this worker, I'll get the images up in about thirty minutes or so, probably sooner.

 

[Tycho]

Spoiler :

Now that I have agriculture done, I decide to do Bronze Working like Lymond suggested to try and chop down those woods for extra workers/settlers/warriors. I send the first worker out to the corn to get him to start farming and hopefully speed along the process for the next worker.

Spoiler :

The scouts exploring around the Ruskie's territory find lots of die; a handy luxury resource in case I even decide to go to war with a cause against the Russians. That won't happen until at least the Medieval Age though.

Spoiler :

Looks they have marble as well; wonder construction might get a little heated.

Spoiler :

The worker finishes the creation of a farm, helpfully boosting along the worker in Berlin's progress significantly (i.e. 4 turns instead of 8 or so). I send the worker off to do worker things at the nearby hill to try and provide some handy hammers for the capitol.

Spoiler :

Very helpful! Cuts down on the time remaining until I have Bronze Working underneath my belt.

Spoiler :

Construction of the Berlin worker is finished, and we move on to start building a warrior to protect the city from any possible barbarian attacks.

Spoiler :

How nice... another civilization. The Khmer don't look too happy with me at the moment.

Spoiler :

The mine's construction goes down from eight turns to about four, a nice boost to the worker's que of orders that I have ready for them... though after they finish that mine, they will essentially have nothing left to do until Bronze working finishes off.

Spoiler :

Alright, so I'm not the largest civilization in the world. Jao must have been building a settler for a new city or something...

Spoiler :

The mine finishes off and the workers go back to Berlin to sit around and squat over the ground, doing nothing. A pity no random event occurs.

Spoiler :

A rather significant blow I believe. Without that scout, I can't really explore... I'm going to have to build a new one.

Spoiler :

Warrior finishes up production in Berlin, and we start the training of a new scout to replace the old one.

Spoiler :

Since Bronze Working finishes up, I can finally mine the forested hills around Berlin. I opt for fishing as my next tech, need those fishies to help Berlin expand a bit more. I contemplate taking Slavery for the whips, but decline it at the moment. Maybe after I'm done with fishing, though I hazard a guess you guys will want me to spring for slavery now for the whips.

Spoiler :

The workers go up there to start chopping and mining for the additional hammers that are needed in Berlin.

 

[Ghpstage]

Not worried to forget the cancellation of the order, just need the food more than the hammers so that the city can expand faster once it's done producing workers.

Trust me, VoU realises that food is the priority. What he's saying is the turns the worker was sitting on his thumbs waiting for Agri to be finished could have been spent beginning to build the mine 1S of the capital, the worker could have been stopped and moved to farming the corn on the turn Agri was finished leaving you with a part built mine you could quickly finish on completion of the farm.

Scouts are doing what they are supposed to be doing; scouting. I know that they are supposed to find my next cities and they are doing so very nicely.

The first job your starting scout/warrior should do is explore the region surrounding your capital as this is where your second city will go, after this it can wander further afield. unfortunately you forgot to scout west of your capital before wandering off, not going north I can understand more as you can see tundra.

Building another worker also speeds up the process of the improvements that are created on the terrain.

Indeed it does, but improvments require population to use them, without that your workers can only contribute by chopping. While building that second worker you left yourself unable to grow to work the nice grassland mine and ended up with a period where your workers were sat around doing nothing again.

EDIT - Started posting before your new pics were up

Without that scout, I can't really explore... I'm going to have to build a new one.

The scouting priority is still to find and secure your nearby second site, a role a warrior is easily fast enough to do, the warrior would then be superior at spawnbusting and holding that site and can function as a garrison afterwards. Basically scouts are terrible and are only worth building to become a supermedic with a GG later in the game!

 

[CreeDakota]

I second everything VoUnreason says.

what are your planned sites for city two and three?

are you planning for any wonders? Oracle perhaps?

 

[Tycho]

Trust me, VoU realises that food is the priority. What he's saying is the turns the workers was sitting on his thumbs could have been spent beginning to build the mine 1S of the capital, the worker could have been stopped and moved to farming the corn on the turn Agri was finished leaving you with a part built mine you could quickly finish on completion of the farm.

Not thinking too much there, was I? I should have built the mine, but I decided to just wait until agriculture was finished up... my bad.

The first job your starting scout/warrior should do is explore the region surrounding your capital as this is where your second city will go, after this it can wander further afield. unfortunately you forgot to scout west of your capital before wandering off, not going north I can understand more as you can see tundra.

Yep, whenever I see tundra, I send scouts in the other direction, especially on continents and pangea maps. I prefer cities that can work good land instead of the barren tundra while the AI typically springs for the latter. I would not be surprised right now if Jao established his city in the tundra.

Indeed it does, but improvments require population to use them without that your workers can only contribute by chopping. While building that second worker you left yourself unable to grow to work the nice grassland mine and ended up with a period where your workers were sat around doing nothing again.

I'll keep this point in mind now, a really good one that I should pay attention to.

 

[Tycho]

I second everything VoUnreason says.

what are your planned sites for city two and three?

are you planning for any wonders? Oracle perhaps?

I plan to move to the south mostly along the coast to snag the sheep first, and the pigs and clams second. Not without guard though.

Planning on hopefully the Great Wall to keep the barbs out so that I don't have to build quite so many military units, and the Oracle definitely to get Metal Casting as soon as possible for the Triremes, forges, and the Colossus. Also plan on getting the Colossus and the Great Lighthouse unless someone else stops me, I could use the commerce bonus and the trade expansion as the empire expands.

 

[Tycho]

Spoiler :

Since the scout has finished up and I plan on expanding south soon, I begin the creation of a warrior that will protect the settler as it moves south.

Spoiler :

An updated map of the terrain and the resources available. I plan on settling along the coast to the south to snag the sheep.

Spoiler :

With the worker finishing chopping and creating a mine in the hills it nicely wraps up the creation of the warrior and gives us a little bit of a head start on the settler. I managed to shave several turns on the construction of that settler, so I'm going to put it to good use.

Spoiler :

In response to the question asked to me about exploring the north, I sent the scout that way. A lot of tundra and plains to the north, not a whole lot of resources that I can see so far.

Spoiler :

Fishing is finally finished up, and I start on masonry right now to try and procure the technology to get that marble resource up and running to the south and maybe create the Great Wall. So far I have found four people on the continent, a possible three targets if someone else builds the Great Wall and leaves me out in the cold...

Spoiler :

After killing some wolves in the tundra area, the scout finally has enough XP to get the Woodsman II perk, which will come in handy in these forested areas, allowing it to move twice as fast through woods.

Spoiler :

Corn found, though I will have to explore some more first before I decide if that area is worth settling around.

Spoiler :

Another short burst of added hammers to Berlin, and some permanent (at least as long as the mine stays around) hammers added. This should speed the construction of the Settler along rather nicely.

Spoiler :

Rather unimportant at the moment.

Spoiler :

After some more heavy duty chopping, the settler is finished and joins the warrior slated for it and begins the journey south along the coast line to found the next city.

Spoiler :

Probably not a good spot for Hamburg, but I wasn't really interested in tempting fate with the lions right there. Production of barracks begins in the city to allow it some growth before any workers or settlers are built in the city.

Spoiler :

Workers sent over to another hill to commence mining and chopping to give us a boost. Those clams are already being claimed and Berlin is growing rapidly.

Spoiler :

And with that, Masonry finishes up. As soon as those workers finish up there tasks up there on the hills, I'm going to make them build a quarry on the marble to give Berlin even more hammers. I'm teching up for Archery right now, but is there another tech I should be shooting for?


I'll check the thread in the morning to see any advice that any contributors have. Did I do something that could have been done another way? Should I have moved Hamburg's settler in another way? Feel free to comment and say what needs to be said, all in the name of improving gameplay.

 

[lymond]

Worker management is one of the more important aspects of improving your game, so VoU is very correct(as usual). Make sure you make the most of worker turns. Workers should never be idle if there is something that can be improved or roaded. You can always cancel a worker turn with the cancel action button or the space bar.

Try to scout in more of a circular pattern around your cap at first...say ten tiles in each direction. You want to bust as much fog as possible to identify good immediate spots for future settling. Scout can continue scouting after that or stick around to help spawnbust.

Post saves...pics are great, but with saves we can give more detailed advice. (If you post starting saves, some folks will play along with you)

Pics are a bit to close to make out anything or see resource bubbles. I can't make heads or tails of Hamburg.

Having Joao so close is problematic. I would look to take him out. Not sure if you have strats yet.

I would get TW before Masonry. You want to set up those trade routes.

 

[Tycho]

Worker management is one of the more important aspects of improving your game, so VoU is very correct(as usual). Make sure you make the most of worker turns. Workers should never be idle if there is something that can be improved or roaded. You can always cancel a worker turn with the cancel action button or the space bar.

Try to scout in more of a circular pattern around your cap at first...say ten tiles in each direction. You want to bust as much fog as possible to identify good immediate spots for future settling. Scout can continue scouting after that or stick around to help spawnbust.

Post saves...pics are great, but with saves we can give more detailed advice. (If you post starting saves, some folks will play along with you)

Pics are a bit to close to make out anything or see resource bubbles. I can't make heads or tails of Hamburg.

Having Joao so close is problematic. I would look to take him out. Not sure if you have strats yet.

I would get TW before Masonry. You want to set up those trade routes.

Ah, I see. I'll try to host the file in the next half hour, never done it before really. Would you prefer the starting save or the current turn 114 save?

 

[Um the Muse]

Hi Tycho. You might want to check out some of the advice from my signature below. Voice of Unreason's Foundation and Empire series might be worth trying, too. I especially like Builder's Bargain, since I have a bad tendency to build a lot.

It looks to me like you war a lot, though. Am I right? Joao really isn't all that close to you; the Russians are definitely too far to fight at this point. Otoh, maybe you could use Joao to get lots of workers?

 

[lymond]

Ah, I see. I'll try to host the file in the next half hour, never done it before really. Would you prefer the starting save or the current turn 114 save?

Always post your current save when you report. Starting save should be posted when you start the game.

 

[krikav]

Hello!
You are putting up some great material to give pointers on here, hope you learn quickly.


I see in a screenshot, that you go with your worker up on a forested hill, and tell them to mine it.
This makes you get the hammers from the forest much later.
If you chop first, and only then mine the naked hill, you will get the hammers from the forest sooner. This is preferable in almost all situations.

Screenshots are abit too much zoomed in. it's difficult to get a idea of what is going on in the surrounding area. Try to zoom out abit more.
Ideally, I want to be able to see at least 9x9 squares. This makes it easier for me to do dotmapping.

When you built your settler, was the warrior waiting for him?
If so, you should have sent the warrior out before he finished, to guard the potential city-spot.

Putting hamburg there was probably a mistake. 1N would probably be better. Closer to capital, possible tile-sharing and more land-tiles and less ocean-tiles.

Keep up the good work!