AG7 - Revenge of the Democracy

[Aggie]

Stapel tells me that he has RL issues. He won't be able to play the turns... That makes Yom up, because I don't think it is wise to let microbe play this one and AG3 I'm not in a hurry and hope that Yom reads this before CFC goes down

ROSTER:
-Aggie
-Jack Merchant (missing in action)
-Yom--------------> up (away until may 7th)
-Stapel-----------> skipped ( away from may 8th until may 15th)
-microbe----------> on deck
-Mark1031

 

[Aggie]

Yom, can you take it?

 

[Yom]

Yeah, I got it. I was a bit busy over the weekend with a combination of a late celebration of my birthday, my mother's birthday, and Mothers day . I don't think I'll be able to play tonight though.

 

[betazed]

Seems you guys are down one player. If it is ok with you I would like to join. Thinking of coming back to SGs again full time.

 

[Aggie]

betazed, you are very welcome I'll replace you with Jack Merchant and put you at the end of the roster.

ROSTER:
-Aggie
-Yom--------------> up
-Stapel-----------> skipped ( away from may 8th until may 15th)
-microbe----------> on deck
-Mark1031
-betazed

 

[Aggie]

Hi Yom, what's the progress?

 

[Yom]

Sorry for the delay. I haven't been able to play yet due to school work, but I'm definitely playing tonight. Expect a report around 9:30 GMT -5.

 

[Yom]

Turn 0 - I notice that Japan is a republic and we have 1 of their workers so I return it now.
Lowering the lux tax will save 23 gpt and dyes only cost 18 and some change (plus the route is pretty secure with multiple trade routes), so I make the deal.
Unfortunately, I find that the dyes aren't enough to lower the lux tax without hiring some entertainers or taxmen in Washington and New York! I have to re-raise the lux tax.

Turn 1 - I take Miami off its library (due in one) and change it to an aqueduct to allow it to grow some more.

IBT - France declared war on the Russians, English complete Sun Tzu's, Russians complete Leo's (hopefully it'll help them fight off the french).

Turn 2 - Japan shows up with Monotheism and Gunpowder and the Babylonians have gunpowder. China and France, too, have monotheism and gunpowder.
I can probably get both techs for a price of about 60-70 gpt and all our 400 gold. I take it.
34 gpt and 415 gold go to France for Monotheism. 33 gpt and Monotheism go to Babylon for Gunpowder and 7 gold.
Both Russia and England lack these techs and have little to offer.
A look at the power graph shows us ahead of everyone but France. Unfortunately, most treaties (all but France and Russia, who has nothing) have some time left on them.

Single beaker research goes to chemistry. We have saltpeter at Chicago.

Turn 3 - England now has monotheism and no gold (so I don't renogiate peace). Babylon gives us 60 gold,
I notice that China and France both lack saltpeter. I sell our only source to France for 31 gpt and 14 gold (I figure, if we are attacked, the best thing they can attack with are slow moving MDIs that can be easily taken out before they get a chance to attack).

Turn 4 - I set Washington to building military for now, as it has few buildings left to build.

Turn 5 - Nothing of importance.

I don't have any time to finish it tonight, so I'm posting the save and turnlog now. I'll finish my turns tomorrow night, but I'm posting it in case the next person in the roster might want to take it before then and finish my turns.

 

[Aggie]

We can wait one day for those turns I'd say.

 

[Yom]

Turns Continued...

Turn 6 - More military out of Washington.

Turn 7 - Philly finishes its library and is set on military production. Notice that Russia has 2 workers hiding in its capital. Has France advanced that far already?

Turn 8 - Renew Gems for horses deal with France. Costs us 4 gpt more. Russia now has Monotheism.

Turn 9 - Nothing of importance, but we need more workers and more culture.

Turn 10 - New York finishes its Marketplace and fires its taxman. It has 30% corruption, so I set it to a Courthouse.
Atlanta finishes its Library and is also set on military production.
Argh!!! Nara flips to the Japanese! Fortunately, it retains no cultural memory and the silks are still in our territory (unroaded).The Japanese now have a monopoly on Chivalry and still have a large amount of gold.
Chicago is on its way to being a 2-turn worker farm (with +10 food and +5 shields), but it needs another mined desert first. The next player may want to switch to a temple to get its borders expanded faster. One Horse town still has 4 Japanese citizens and no culture, so the next player might consider rushing a temple there as well.

 

[Aggie]

ROSTER:
-Aggie
-Yom
-Stapel
-microbe----------> up
-Mark1031--------> on deck
-betazed

EDIT: We could use Chemistry as a trading tech, but in general we should get Democracy asap. I suggest switching min science to Printing Press when this is possible. This is a nice gambit that could end up in nice trading optionss. Better than Chemistry. It is strange to see that the AI doesn't research...

The flip was very unlucky

 

[microbe]

preturn: I noticed we don't have embassy with everybody, then how could we know who declared on whom??? So I create them:

France: Paris has 5 lux, size 9, 7 musketeers, 13spt and building musketeer. It has a lot of improvements.

England: London has 2 lux, size 5, 4 pikes, 7spt and building market. It has Sun Tzu's - shouldn't we think about capturing it? She has only horses, but there is an unhooked saltpeter just outside of London.

China: Beijing has 5 lux, size 12, 8 pikes, 16spt and building pikes. It has no saltpeter.

China/Russia in Monarchy, and others in Republic. But I don't know who declared on whom.

We are doing quite well - 2nd in score already, but our military is still weak to almost everybody.

I switch St. Louis and Buffalo from library to temple. We need expansion faster and we don't need library yet.

Chicago is building a library in 15 turns, but it's wasting food right now. I rush it now with 172g.

(1)30BC: France/Japan exchanged Chemistry/Chivalry.

IBT France/Russia sign peace. AI starts Knights Templar.

(2)10BC: disband a scout.

IBT France declares on China.

(3)10AD: China also gets Chivalry/Chemistry. I MM Atlanta to get 10spt instead of 9, but grow a little slower.

Washington also needs to switch some irrigation to mine.

(4)30AD: switch washington to worker.

IBT France starts Sistine Chapel.

(5)50AD: Both Japan and France have Theology.

I buy Theology from France by 38gpt+642g. I sell silks to France for 18gpt.

Theology to Babylon for Chivalry+77g. Theology+34gpt+61g to China for Chemistry.

Not a great deal - 72gpt+626g for 3 techs, but we need to take it as it opens up the gate to Printing Press.

Silks to Japan to get 10gpt. I think our next target is Babylon instead of Japan. I don't want to fight Samurais, and Babylon's land is much better.

With 10 lux we are now making +1gpt.

Min research on Printing Press.

Chicago is now a 3-turn worker factory. If it has a granary we could make it 2-turn. I'll build a worker first then switch to granary.

 

[Aggie]

It is a great deal microbe 30 gpt per tech! It's a must for us to keep profiting from these 2fers or 3fers

 

[microbe]

(6)70AD: ZZZ

(7)90AD: Set Washington and New York to Cathedral as we are paying 10 lux just for these two cities. Should have done so earlier!

(8)110AD: I decide to switch seattle from library to harbor - we don't do self-research so soon yet, and the extra food is good.

China captured St. Petersburg (which has saltpeter). Russia has no iron now, but has furs/incense for sale. I ship iron to her for furs. The route might not be safe but no harm. Lower lux to 0.

On the other hand France captured Xinjian which has iron.

IBT Washington riots! Seems we lost some other lux. Scroll ahead to fix all other cities.

(9)130AD: Seems the Chinese dyes city is captured by Babs. Our payment is back and we are making 49gpt. Raise lux back to 10 and we are making 22gpt.

France/Japan have Education.

IBT Japan asks for peace treaty, I have to renew. Russia/France sign peace.

(10)150AD: I hire a scientist in Washington, a taxman in New York and a clown in Chicago. Lower lux to 0. This brings extra +26gpt to our income and only delay cathedral by one turn. Now we are making +97gpt.

We are doing quite well. I am mainly building infra and struggling in managing economy, but I know we need more military too. FP is due in 2 turns.

 

[Aggie]

Good job microbe. China seems to be dogpiled and Russia is also weak.

ROSTER:
-Aggie
-Yom
-Stapel
-microbe
-Mark1031--------> up
-betazed----------> on deck

Good luck Mark1031!

 

[microbe]

Should we prepare for a war against babs? if we could get 5-10 knights, with the MDIs in horsetown we could capture Nippur and Eulbar (which has incense) quickly. I think most Bab units are in Chinese territory (we can even sign RoP with Japan to see where those units are, but I don't expect them to reach us within 5 turns).

With our economy we'll be able to upgrade several horses and build up an initial knight army in the next 10 turns without any problem. Our peace treaty with Bab is going to expire in 3 turns - I should have prepared it earlier.

Another question: If we are at war with a representative civ, and a non-representative civ declares on it too, are we required to declare on the 2nd civ? I would say no.

 

[Mark1031]

got it. Just noticed i have to patch down to 1.15. will try to look at it tonight.

 

[Aggie]

It can't hurt to build up our military. We have to be strong when we revolt to a Democracy.

 

[Mark1031]

In the year 150 A.D. a great election is held throughout the American Republic and the candidate of peace and prosperity Mark 1031 humbly takes on the role of first citizen. He finds to his great surprise that all is well in the Republic and all the scurrilous charges against his opponents in the campaign may have been a tad exaggerated. A survey of his fine Republic reveals a potential for greatness and the chance for economic domination. However many cities are rife with corruption and lack appropriate infrastructure. Moreover, we are weak against the many lesser nations of the world. It is thus decided that he will stick to his election promises and preside over a relatively boring administration of building infrastructure and some military.

Microbe. I didn't go to war with the Babs for a number of reasons. First, this is my first succession game and I didn't want to screw up too badly by getting into a dogpile, I was chicken. Second, it looks like we have a reasonably nice empire to build up as it is. Third, we are weak militarily, and with this variant I think it will take a lot more troops to capture and hold cities against cultural flips. I'm still worried about a flip in one horse with four Japanese citizens and the bulk of our military. Elubar seemed a bit of a stretch with the military we could have on my turn.

Preturn: Miami courthouse to Temple MM Atlanta to get growth, rushed Temple in St. Louis.

Turn 1: St. Louis Temple to courthouse, Detroit market to aqueduct.

Turn 2: the forbidden palace is built in Houston to much celebration. The celebration is canceled when it is found how little surrounding corruption is reduced. I'm always disappointed by the forbidden palace effects. Houston starts market.

Some trade deals end and we start rakin' it in. 206 gpt 304 g.

Turn 3: china/Babs make peace. Denver worker to courthouse. Rushed Temple in one horse. Find a couple of conscript warriors and disband them.

Turn 4: New Orleans worker to Temple. Joan starts Copernicus. Cancel salt deal with Joan as its our only one and we may need it for upgrades/builds. England/China make peace.

Turn 5: Washington Cathedral to Knight.

Turn 6: Baltimore courthouse to granary.

Turn 7: renewed gems deal with France, gems +5gpt for horses. We lost our furs, Washington revolts, scroll through to fix the other cities. We can no longer trade with Russia. It looks like they're being chewed up by the Japanese samurai's. I hire a few entertainers/tax collectors and managed to keep luxs @0. Switch some cities to temples. French start Magellan's

Turn 8: a deal presents itself and I take it. 1000g + 58gpt to China for metallurgy. Metallurgy + 10g to Japan for education. Education back to China for 850g. Iron to China for 49gpt. I could have used the iron in the original deal with China but with them at war I didn't want to risk our rep. We now have a straight gpt deal which should protect us. 2 techs for 160g + 9gpt + iron.

Turn 9: Atlanta Knight to temple.

Turn 10 : Liz demands iron. After about 10 min of thought I refuse/ she backs down. whew. We are not ready for war but I think we could fend off defensively.

summary: I built mostly infrastructure and a few Knights. I really focused on financial infrastructure. We have enough money to upgrade all our horses to Knight's in a crisis. We have seven horses and three Knight's. We lost a luxury from the Russians and have some happiness issues in some cities. We are down astronomy and navigation to the French and astronomy to several others. We are woefully weak militarily although I think we could defend ourselves in a crisis I just couldn't resist trying to get some of our peripheral cities in better shape with courthouses and marketplaces. We have a fair amount of time before democracy to build up military. Once these cities get set up we should be ready for military build up. My understanding is that most of the restrictions kick in once we hit democracy.

Long-term: things look great now but I see long-term problems with this scenario. My main concern is that this is shaping up to be a cultural defeat to the French. The French are more than double culture on everybody but England who is small and behind a few techs. The French are chewing up China whose military is average to our's lol. I think their days are numbered. This means more French cities and more French culture. This can be very difficult to stop in a normal game where I would typically just go and burn a few high culture cities to the ground and try to take them out militarily. In this scenario it will be almost impossible to take and hold large cities against a high culture civ. France is also likely to stay in Republic which means we will be helping her militarily throughout the game.
I'm not sure what everyone else thinks but I think domination with these restrictions will be too difficult because of cultural flips and war weariness. If we were to try it we could dogpile each civ and take them out completely in as few turns as possible.


Alternatives for the culture issue: try to catch up ourselves in culture (very difficult I think although I'm not very good at these calculations).

Help England along by allying to carve up the Babs or do the same with the Japanese, they seem to be getting quite big and this should allow them to catch up in culture, on the other hand they become a powerhouse on our boarder. In any case I think we need to make sure that somebody stays in the culture race with France. I had culture become a problem in a number of deity games before the space race.

will post file tonight.

 

[Aggie]

Your turnlog suggests a good turn Can't wait to see the save. I agree that we aren't very strong to think about expansion now.

ROSTER:
-Aggie------------> on deck
-Yom
-Stapel
-microbe
-Mark1031
-betazed----------> up