AI Peace Offers...Still a Little Silly

[bcaiko]

Hey folks,

I'm really enjoying the new expansion. My poor friends are seriously having their ears talked off while I blather on about spreading my Japanese TenticleMonsterism. One thing I've noticed, however, is that the AI's peace offerings still seem to be...extreme and not based on the situation at hand.

In my first game, I ran into Arabia near my borders. He was clearly moving his Settler toward a spot I wanted to claim. Arabia also seemed to be having problems with Barbs, who were chasing their Settler. I did a quick DOW, took the Settler, killed the Barb, then noticed Arabia had some free workers that I could make my own. Arabia sued for peace, offering my all his gold. I took it and left Arabia alone.

Arabia never recovered. He never expanded and I don't think he even had a worker by the time I eventually returned to pick him off before someone else did. I removed him from the game by taking his one city. No one on the continent seemed to mind.

After some exploration, I noticed a large contingent of German troops hiding in the shadows. Bismark DOWs/Backstabs me, as I predicted. Unfortunately for Bismark, I finished the Great Wall a turn after he DOWed. I called back my army and routed his forces. He sues for straight peace, which I refused. At this point, my army is clearly larger than his. I marched on his cities and began picking them off and burning them to the ground. It was a tough slog, but I have a superior military force. Bismark sues for straight peace. I eventually became allies with all the CSs on Germany's borders and walked through them to march on Berlin. It was tough, but I'm eventually on his doorstep with very stong, pissed off Samurai, trebuchets, and Crossbowmen.

Bismark sues for straight peace, in a war he started and after I have slaughtered his army, burned down his cities and have marched on his capital. Rediculous! Bismark should have been offering me something, anything, after his initial DOW failed. Instead, he stubbornly and stupidly kept offering straight peace even after it was clear that this was a war he could not win.

Bismark's defeat allowed me to run roughshod over any other Civ in the game. My military was so powerful by that point that no one could possibly stand up to me from that point on. If Germany had offered me something aside from straight peace, they perhaps would have prevented the destruction of their cities and would have had time to rebuild. Instead he insisted on straight peace...because I had removed Arabia after two wars, I guess? This war wasn't anything like those, though.

And, it wasn't just Bismark. When Harold of Denmark declared an admittedly suicidal war against me, I quickly destroyed his army and marched on Copenhagen. What does his offer me? Straight peace. There is absolutely no reason I should accept that.

So...in my experience, the AI's peace offerings are still a bit silly. The AI really should get better at making viable peace offerings, instead of the mere extremes of "We'll give you everything!" and "Straight peace or remove me from the game!"

Anyone else have a similar experience? Should my (admittedly mean) removal of Arabia have blocked the AI from giving me anything ever again? Or can the AI be written to take that into account but still make valid offers to save its own neck?

 

[smallfish]

Its just his personality.

I had Monty do the same, and after I smashed his invasion and chased him back to his lands, he offered me his gold, his luxes, horses and peace with my CSes.

 

[kgoodrid]

Agreed that this is situational and Civ / Leader based. I attacked the Maya and they were very quick to offer peace. Started offering cities quickly too.

 

[Sincro]

My personal favorite for lunatic peace deals is where I get DOWed, and because I'm in a happiness crunch, I decide to play defence and just wreck any bad guy unit that comes my way. But after a few waves of me killing every unit that gets sent my way, I get the AI contacting me with a peace offer where I am supposed to give them all my gold, all my gpt, all my luxes, and all my cities save my capital.

Uh, what war where you watching, cause I was watching the one where I killed like 15 of your units and lost a couple in return. I'll happily decline that peace offer and continue killing your units. I'm happy for the XP.

-Sinc

 

[Kabloosh]

Most of them don't take into demands or "fair" peace treaties. When I'm at the door of you capital and you want peace don't make me laugh. You know what I'm there for. Join my empire ether willingly or I'll force you to. Its cool though cause ice cream is free!

Russia is a backstabber by the way! Unfortunately for her 3 of my frigates have +1 range which tore up her ironclads. She has now offered peace which is good cause it is giving me time to upgrade my frigates into battleships. Now I'll be able to lay siege to her cities from quite a distance which I will abuse cause I'm currently behind her and Persia in tech and it looks like the only way I'll be able to catch up is through war unfortunately. I had to gobble up Spain and Songhai which were the other 2 sharing my island. Especially Spain cause she fricken expanded like crazy in the beginning even grabbing the first city I wanted. I also jacked a city state cause they were the closest city to iron on the entire continent.

 

[smallfish]

Uh, what war where you watching, cause I was watching the one where I killed like 15 of your units and lost a couple in return. I'll happily decline that peace offer and continue killing your units. I'm happy for the XP.

He isn't losing - his production cities are still intact, he can still spam a gazillion units at you, why should he offer you unconditional peace other than stripping-everything-off-you-ala-Versailles kind of peace?

 

[Kabloosh]

He isn't losing - his production cities are still intact, he can still spam a gazillion units at you, why should he offer you unconditional peace other than stripping-everything-off-you-ala-Versailles kind of peace?

Cause hes ******** to not realize once I get a experienced force with some siege capability I'm going to push back and take your cities.

 

[smallfish]

Cause hes ******** to not realize once I get a experienced force with some siege capability I'm going to push back and take your cities.

Well, that experienced force doesn't come out of thin air.

 

[Loucypher]

I found Boudicca very fair, actually. She initially attacked me, I staved off her attack but at the expense of some units and a Missionary who got captured, and she asked for money to end it. I didn't agree to it and went to attack her, slaughtered some of her men and took Cardiff.
She then offered me money and pearls to end the war. Sounds a lot more reasonable then what you are portraying. I ended up selling her Cardiff back too - it didn't do much for me anyway.

 

[smallfish]

I found Boudicca very fair, actually. She initially attacked me, I staved off her attack but at the expense of some units and a Missionary who got captured, and she asked for money to end it. I didn't agree to it and went to attack her, slaughtered some of her men and took Cardiff.
She then offered me money and pearls to end the war. Sounds a lot more reasonable then what you are portraying. I ended up selling her Cardiff back too - it didn't do much for me anyway.

From reading her personality chart, she seems to be more of a "honorable" warmonger than Attila, Montezuma, Napoleon etc.

 

[bffcfm]

If it works the same way it did in Civ V vanilla, once you accept a peace offering from a civilization in which they offer you an incentive (no matter how small or big), and then you declare war on that SAME Civ again, you will NEVER receive any peace offers from ANY civ other than straight up peace for peace.

If you would not have declared war on Arabia again, then Germany would have offered incentives

 

[smallfish]

If it works the same way it did in Civ V vanilla, once you accept a peace offering from a civilization in which they offer you an incentive (no matter how small or big), and then you declare war on that SAME Civ again, you will NEVER receive any peace offers from ANY civ other than straight up peace for peace.

In the latest patch for Vanilla, they would.

I had gone to war with Runaway Denmark *twice*, and all of them ended with him giving up his treasury, his luxuries and resources... and in the second peace deal, all of his cities!

 

[Putmalk]

If it works the same way it did in Civ V vanilla, once you accept a peace offering from a civilization in which they offer you an incentive (no matter how small or big), and then you declare war on that SAME Civ again, you will NEVER receive any peace offers from ANY civ other than straight up peace for peace.

If you would not have declared war on Arabia again, then Germany would have offered incentives

It doesn't work like this anymore. I believe that effect comes into play with major warmonger penalties, however, over time this penalty reduces naturally (unlike vanilla) and so peace deals are available again.

 

[MadDjinn]

If it works the same way it did in Civ V vanilla, once you accept a peace offering from a civilization in which they offer you an incentive (no matter how small or big), and then you declare war on that SAME Civ again, you will NEVER receive any peace offers from ANY civ other than straight up peace for peace.

If you would not have declared war on Arabia again, then Germany would have offered incentives

I think still works like that.

Basically, if someone gives you 'anything' to be at peace, and you DoW them again before the 30 turns is up, then no one will believe that giving you stuff to end the war will work for more 'lasting' peace.

 

[bffcfm]

In the latest patch for Vanilla, they would.

I had gone to war with Runaway Denmark *twice*, and all of them ended with him giving up his treasury, his luxuries and resources... and in the second peace deal, all of his cities!

Did you DOW him, or did he DOW you? If you DOW'd him after receiving some form of compensation from that same civ earlier, then my experience has been no other civ will ever offer you compensation.

If you are at war with a CIV, that CIV sues for peace and gives you all his gold, then later, that same civ DOWs you again, he will still give compensation.

Haven't played in the last 2 weeks, so if it is changed in the very latest patch, my apologies.

 

[Morningcalm]

Yea, when the AI realizes it's losing an invasion, they offer peace, but want your cities. Are they idiots? They should just offer straight peace, because then we're more likely to accept it.

Seriously....I know the developers are worried about the AI giving up too much. But STILL.

 

[bcaiko]

If it works the same way it did in Civ V vanilla, once you accept a peace offering from a civilization in which they offer you an incentive (no matter how small or big), and then you declare war on that SAME Civ again, you will NEVER receive any peace offers from ANY civ other than straight up peace for peace.

If you would not have declared war on Arabia again, then Germany would have offered incentives

That's rediculous, though. The variables in the wars against Arabia and Germany were totally different. Against Arabia, I was putting down a sick horse, but it was me being the aggressor. Germany started my war against him, though, and he had several more cities than Arabia (who had one). The AI should be able to take those kind of variables into account and be able to determine that the jig is up. Even taking into account a discounted offer for me attacking Arabia, Germany should have offered something.

Seriously....I know the developers are worried about the AI giving up too much. But STILL.

In those early peace treaties, the AI often will give up too much. They'll cripple themselves in order to get 30 turns of peace, which will prevent them from developing an army to prevent another attack. The AI needs to find a balance. I don't need all your cities, Washington, but if you offer me a couple of luxuries and some gold, I might back off.

Like I said, the AI needs to be better at finding a treaty in the happy middle instead of bugging out into the extremes.

 

[Aaron90495]

One thing nice addition to the game would be different-length peace treaties. Sometimes I want to make peace with an enemy for 30 or 40 turns just so I can focus on something else (like building up my economy or building wonders) before going to war with them again. At the same time, sometimes I just want a 10-turn peace treaty, so I can collect the surrender incentive from then but then attack them again ASAP.

Hopefully that gets added in a patch.

 

[bffcfm]

That's rediculous, though. The variables in the wars against Arabia and Germany were totally different. Against Arabia, I was putting down a sick horse, but it was me being the aggressor. Germany started my war against him, though, and he had several more cities than Arabia (who had one). The AI should be able to take those kind of variables into account and be able to determine that the jig is up. Even taking into account a discounted offer for me attacking Arabia, Germany should have offered something.

It is ridiculous, I agree. But knowing this, it is sometimes better to not DOW a CIV that offered you compensation previously, even if they are extremely vulnerable.

 

[Gomer_Pyle]

This is not even funny. Silly? No it is total failure. In my 5 attempts (all to modern era) in G&K I have ended up in neverending wars because some **** of an AI DoW'ed me. But everytime I managed to defend against them. They sue for peace and they demand all my cities and money to stop the war. WHAT? What a joke. This was much better in vanilla before the exp. got released. Never had this issue atleast!