AI suggestions

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Subdued animals are great people as far as the AI is concerned. It will never trash GPs I don't think.

Since I did the work to allow new unitAIs to be added without losing backward compatibility a month or so ago, maybe now is the time to use it to split off a UINTAI_SUBDUED_ANIMAL which behaves like a great engineer for the most part but is not somethign the AI is too afraid to trash?

Great, just after I went through and made sure all were UNITAI_ENGINEER.

Good idea

 

[Koshling]

Great, just after I went through and made sure all were UNITAI_ENGINEER.

Good idea

Well, it needs some DLL work so not today. I really want to crack this CTD that some people are seeing before embarking on anything else.

 

[Thunderbrd]

We have an interesting choice made repeatedly by the strongest nation aside from our team in the world, the decision to enact a naval heckling war against us repeatedly. Is this just to try to slow us down?

He brings a minimal amount of troops in on transport galleons and then quickly gives up on further efforts (and even when he CAN drop them off he chooses not to... huh?)

 

[EldrinFal]

Bringing this up here as it is at least somewhat relevant to the thread topic...

I mentioned this is another thread, but with the AI unable (or unwilling??) to delete subdued units, it is ending up suffering setbacks in the early game.

In the autoplay I ran for 500 turns, my nation went completely broke, units were on STRIKE, and my research rate dropped to 0% because of all the subdued hawks and eagles I possessed. Progressing another 50 turns after that to see what the AI did achieved nothing more than 50 turns of stagnation.

I cannot imagine this is an isolated incident. But it's one the Player avoids by deleting units, where the AI cannot/does not/will not.

So either the AI needs some capability to deal with this drain:

• Delete units when it evaluates them as too costly for the benefit
• Delete units when slider drops below 10-15%
• Delete units when treasury hits 0
• Gift the units to another nation
• Offer to sell the units via diplomacy

Or we need some new action/command for subdued animals that the AI can make use of:

• Butcher animal for or
• Rush production for MINIMAL benefit (+1 )
• Sell the unit in a city for a small return
• Sacrifice the animal at a Sacrificial Altar or Temple for +1 GPP

 

[EldrinFal]

Continuing my autoplay, I'm seeing more issues with the way the AI handles things.

• City spamming is still occurring despite the penalties to happiness. My Civ has 13 cities and still using Chiefdom, which means all cities beyond 6 cause +3 each. ALL cities are and AI STILL making Settler units at several cities!
• AI has my Civ making and maintaining a large number of units despite money problems.
• Noticed in the Financial Adviser that it shows a lot of for Unit Maintenance, but for Military Unit Maintenance it listed 0, despite the 41 military units it says there are.

Other statistics about this game...

• Current year 0 AD. Turn 900
• Nation: Zulu (tend to get them a lot on Random pick)
• Speed: Snail. Difficulty: Prince.
• Map: Planet Generator, Huge, Tropical, Low Sea
• Other Settings: Play Now (whatever those defaults are)
• Total Cities: 13, Sizes 10/8/5/4/3/3/1~
• Current Gov't : Chiefdom (have not gotten Despotism or Monarchy yet)
• So far only 1-2 Classical Age techs discovered, and some not yet researched from earlier eras.

 

[Necratoid]

I've managed to effectively stun lock all the Civs on my contient. What is happening is that I took two other Civs capital as my first two expansions and torched a third one. This made me the biggest on block and at that point I was scary and only like 3 techs ahead.

Now with me as the uber threat they started making unit after unit in panic... and then noticed that everyone had big, big armies so build more units to compinsate. So the rest of them are in an arms race they can't win... and is building so very many units they are out of for any research percentage... and building more and more so they end up deleting troops from upkeep issues... which lets them get enough to research for a turn or six before the cycle repeats.

Its so bad they are all just finishing researching megafauna domestication and I'm on machinery.

 

[Koshling]

Continuing my autoplay, I'm seeing more issues with the way the AI handles things.

• City spamming is still occurring despite the penalties to happiness. My Civ has 13 cities and still using Chiefdom, which means all cities beyond 6 cause +3 each. ALL cities are and AI STILL making Settler units at several cities!
• AI has my Civ making and maintaining a large number of units despite money problems.
• Noticed in the Financial Adviser that it shows a lot of for Unit Maintenance, but for Military Unit Maintenance it listed 0, despite the 41 military units it says there are.

Other statistics about this game...

• Current year 0 AD. Turn 900
• Total Cities: 13, Sizes 10/8/5/4/3/3/1~
• Current Gov't : Chiefdom (have not gotten Despotism or Monarchy yet)
• So far only 1-2 Classical Age techs discovered, and some not yet researched from earlier eras.

I need a save game from a turn in which the AI decides to found incorrectly (auto playing the next turn doesn't found another city from the posted save game). Not sure when the last city was founded but that is the turn I need to debug if you still have the save game for it from your autosaves. Or if you take some older save game and auto-play it again to re-find such a case that would also work. Trying to go forward in the debug version is not really possible (takes approx 10-15 minutes per turn), so if you could pin it down for me that would be extremely helpful.

I HAVE been able to find out why its BUILDING more settlers in your save game (that save game records a value of -17 settlers in existance, which is obviously incorrect, and screws up the inhibition of new settlers). However, that doesn't explain why it would found cities anyway even after building the settlers. I also don't know how that number gets to be negative, but I'm searching for that.

 

[EldrinFal]

I need a save game from a turn in which the AI decides to found incorrectly (auto playing the next turn doesn't found another city from the posted save game). Not sure when the last city was founded but that is the turn I need to debug if you still have the save game for it from your autosaves. Or if you take some older save game and auto-play it again to re-find such a case that would also work. Trying to go forward in the debug version is not really possible (takes approx 10-15 minutes per turn), so if you could pin it down for me that would be extremely helpful.

I HAVE been able to find out why its BUILDING more settlers in your save game (that save game records a value of -17 settlers in existance, which is obviously incorrect, and screws up the inhibition of new settlers). However, that doesn't explain why it would found cities anyway even after building the settlers. I also don't know how that number gets to be negative, but I'm searching for that.

I've been doing Max Comp saves along the way so I have one from an earlier period I can autoplay up a bit at a time. Do you need the turn where the AI actually PLANTS the new city? When it sends the settler out from a city? Or when it starts to build a settler?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Continuing my autoplay, I'm seeing more issues with the way the AI handles things.

• City spamming is still occurring despite the penalties to happiness. My Civ has 13 cities and still using Chiefdom, which means all cities beyond 6 cause +3 each. ALL cities are and AI STILL making Settler units at several cities!
• AI has my Civ making and maintaining a large number of units despite money problems.
• Noticed in the Financial Adviser that it shows a lot of for Unit Maintenance, but for Military Unit Maintenance it listed 0, despite the 41 military units it says there are.

Other statistics about this game...

• Current year 0 AD. Turn 900
• Total Cities: 13, Sizes 10/8/5/4/3/3/1~
• Current Gov't : Chiefdom (have not gotten Despotism or Monarchy yet)
• So far only 1-2 Classical Age techs discovered, and some not yet researched from earlier eras.

Have you posted the Game set up Options that you selected, and Bug Options? How many AI? Size and Type of Map? Game Speed? If so I missed them.

JosEPh

 

[EldrinFal]

Have you posted the Game set up Options that you selected, and Bug Options? How many AI? Size and Type of Map? Game Speed? If so I missed them.

JosEPh

I hadn't. But I will now in that post above.

I need a save game from a turn in which the AI decides to found incorrectly (auto playing the next turn doesn't found another city from the posted save game). Not sure when the last city was founded but that is the turn I need to debug if you still have the save game for it from your autosaves. Or if you take some older save game and auto-play it again to re-find such a case that would also work. Trying to go forward in the debug version is not really possible (takes approx 10-15 minutes per turn), so if you could pin it down for me that would be extremely helpful.

I HAVE been able to find out why its BUILDING more settlers in your save game (that save game records a value of -17 settlers in existance, which is obviously incorrect, and screws up the inhibition of new settlers). However, that doesn't explain why it would found cities anyway even after building the settlers. I also don't know how that number gets to be negative, but I'm searching for that.

Save posted. Founds city on next turn.

 

[Koshling]

I hadn't. But I will now in that post above.



Save posted. Founds city on next turn.

Oops. x >= y...x <= y - much the same really!? er...

I had a test the wrong way around. Pushed the fix to SVN - should stop city founding when it's a really bad idea!

 

[JosEPh_II]

The "Play Now" vs Custom game uses standard BtS settings and may not recognize added "Options" that a Custom game provides. So your C2C option for City Limits may not even be used, or turned off.

I quit using the "Play Now" a long time ago when RoM was still young, because it produced "different" results than using the Custom Game setting. (Boy was that a while ago, going on 5 years now )

JosEPh

 

[EldrinFal]

The "Play Now" vs Custom game uses standard BtS settings and may not recognize added "Options" that a Custom game provides. So your C2C option for City Limits may not even be used, or turned off.

I quit using the "Play Now" a long time ago when RoM was still young, because it produced "different" results than using the Custom Game setting. (Boy was that a while ago, going on 5 years now )

JosEPh

That may be true. But I do know that ALL of my cities were in revolt, so I think it's likely the anger penalty for too many cities was included.

Noted though. Next test I won't be using Play Now

 

[EldrinFal]

Oops. x >= y...x <= y - much the same really!? er...

I had a test the wrong way around. Pushed the fix to SVN - should stop city founding when it's a really bad idea!

Just reporting back that your fix appears to be operating properly. On my autoplay game tonight my civ stopped at 4 cities. There was a little anger because of the number that caused 1 city to get but the AI wasn't continuing to expand.

Regarding the stockpiling of subdued animals, that also seems to better: I didn't see ANY stocked at the cities on a brief check. But I also had another Civ nearby which could have contributed to keeping the animal pop. down.

 

[ls612]

I found an apparent AI Error involving large stacks of units in the Prehistoric Era.

The AI playing the Hittites has a rather large stack (see screenie), which it just mills about outside it's cultural area. I have seen this multiple times with my subdued animals, so I'm pretty sure that this is not normal.

EDIT: I'm using a very recent SVN revision (1130ish)

View attachment 306210

 

[strategyonly]

Still getting this ALOT: Barbs all in a bunch and dont go anyplace? It has been over 300 turns since i noticed the city there, and all i have in the nearest city for fortification is two units in my cities? Plus again the POP is still at 1?

 

[Koshling]

Still getting this ALOT: Barbs all in a bunch and dont go anyplace? It has been over 300 turns since i noticed the city there, and all i have in the nearest city for fortification is two units in my cities? Plus again the POP is still at 1?

The barbarian Ai hasn't been touched really ever since I started on the mod, so I doubt is is a new issue, though I guess something about the other game changes may have triggered it. Not sure I'll be able to spend time on it - I'm a bit pressed for time on completing what I said I would for v19, so it will likely have to wait.

 

[BlueGenie]

In all my games the AI starts losing the tech race after a while. From my experience I'd say it's mainly due to having way, way, way too many units and thus a lot higher costs, resulting in lower tech %.

It's more pronounced when the AI has a player nearby. Could be AI player as well but that I can't say.

Attaching a save game where one can see how the AI has and builds too many units.
Oh, and Mod folder is C2C, not Caveman2Cosmos.

Cheers

 

[JosEPh_II]

@BG,
Have you tried setting the stack limit to say 10? It's in the BUG Options.

I set mine to 10 and at 1928AD out of 9 players I only rank #5. I do not see the AI overproducing units with the stack limit on. I'm struggling to keep up tech wise. I have just passed the leader in # of cities owned. And I'm at war with 2 AI.

JosEPh

 

[BlueGenie]

Stacking isn't the problem. Siam with so many units they have to run at 5% science is.
I always set stacks to 12.

Khmer also had problems with science until I took out most of their units (some 100 turns). Of course I also took over their cities so now they have trouble again, for other reasons.

Been at war with Siam and Khmer since start. Those were the two near neighbours I had. Running on Eternal I have so far killed a total of 1125 units from both, most from Khmer. And I've only just reached Medieval Era and am 991 turns into the game.

Both of them were ahead of me in Tech for a long time. Passing them was easy. A couple of unknown civs are still ahead of me in tech but since I've gotten a few religions and a Great Doctor I know it's not by much they are ahead with.
Had they not gone for as many troops as they have they could have had better units to fight and defend with rather than a myriad of worthless units I just kill.

Cheers