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- Thread starter Siesta Guru
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Siesta Guru
Prince
Heya. Yeah it works with the summer patch. I mean, not optimally, but there are no crashes
For anyone curious, I've mostly stopped working on this mod (except for maintenance if needed) until we get access to some better tools. The available tools feel like they've mostly been exhausted and all that's really left to do is value tweaks. Which is something that's insanely hard to test because you can never tell whether an observed change is the placebo effect. I'd bet a large part of the suboptimal civ AI is because it's just so bloody hard and boring to debug.
For anyone curious, I've mostly stopped working on this mod (except for maintenance if needed) until we get access to some better tools. The available tools feel like they've mostly been exhausted and all that's really left to do is value tweaks. Which is something that's insanely hard to test because you can never tell whether an observed change is the placebo effect. I'd bet a large part of the suboptimal civ AI is because it's just so bloody hard and boring to debug.
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Siesta Guru
Prince
Lol 
So yeah it does seem some maintenance is required here. The AI has gotten weirdly passive and settling has gotten much worse again. I'll try to see if I can get something done. It might have something to do with the weird new pseudoyields..
Edit:
Yep. The new pseudoyields are crazily important in determining whether civs attempt to attack cities, declare war and build units. Keep them as set and there's like 2 attacks on city states during an entire game. Set them to 0, and it's continuous attempted capital attacks, not a single settler build and city states have 200 units. Will have to find some kind of a balance here... Whatever change was involved in adding these is almost certainly the main cause for the broken AI atm.
It also seems the city evaluation spot algorithm had some work done, they're not settling in the expected spots anymore. As in, worse spots..
Additionally some settle operations get "Operation Change Target INVALID" statuses now, whatever that means (on both the default and a custom behavior tree). It's stopping them from settling is all I know.
So yeah it does seem some maintenance is required here. The AI has gotten weirdly passive and settling has gotten much worse again. I'll try to see if I can get something done. It might have something to do with the weird new pseudoyields..
Edit:
Yep. The new pseudoyields are crazily important in determining whether civs attempt to attack cities, declare war and build units. Keep them as set and there's like 2 attacks on city states during an entire game. Set them to 0, and it's continuous attempted capital attacks, not a single settler build and city states have 200 units. Will have to find some kind of a balance here... Whatever change was involved in adding these is almost certainly the main cause for the broken AI atm.
It also seems the city evaluation spot algorithm had some work done, they're not settling in the expected spots anymore. As in, worse spots..
Additionally some settle operations get "Operation Change Target INVALID" statuses now, whatever that means (on both the default and a custom behavior tree). It's stopping them from settling is all I know.
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I can confirm the default (sans AI+) behavior is not settling as much. I tested this by giving each AI 4 starting settlers on Deity, and by turn 109 several AI's still had not planted all their settlers yet even though they had good riverside starting spots available nearby; the settlers would just shuffle around endlessly.
Also, another possible issue was discovered by Isau in his "Quo's Combined Tweaks", here, which states the following (in reference to the new Summer patch):
From Isau: "This small update attempts to correct a possible bug on Firaxis' part that is resulting in civs being too ready to move from neutral to friendly and to formally declare friendships.
- Changed min threshold for a Civ to declare friendship to 15 (up from 5)
- Changed min threshold for a Civ to flip from neutral to friendly to 5 (up from -5)"
View619
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2016
- Messages
- 109
Good to see you're still around, Siesta Guru.
I hear you on the limited tool-set, you've done a lot of work with what's available regardless of what anyone wants to say. Nothing wrong with signing off until Firaxis actually opens up the mod tools for you guys. Thanks for all the effort!
I hear you on the limited tool-set, you've done a lot of work with what's available regardless of what anyone wants to say. Nothing wrong with signing off until Firaxis actually opens up the mod tools for you guys. Thanks for all the effort!
oedali
King
What is your expectation / best guess for full mod set to be made available? Months or years?
Siesta Guru
Prince
That does help, thank you! That does sound like it'd be a huge impactor on the love fest happening right now
The dll of Civ 5 was released fall 2012, 2 years after release. Following the same schedule, we have about a year left. But it could obviously just as easily be tomorrow or never. I'd be surprised if they released it before a first expansion though
Siesta Guru
Prince
So, I did some changes to try to fix things. I moved aggression back up again, so wars happen again. Some settling issues have been made a little better so that they're less likely to stay stuck at only a few cities. In addition I did some small tuning tweaks here and there on yield preferences and diplomacy.
Here's what I have so far if anyone would like to test it out in real games, I have to do most testing in AI only games myself because of how long real games take. Some real game feedback would be awesome if anyone is willing to try. This is not really a full fledged release yet though, so there may be issues.
Edit: nvm, removed link for now. Found a major issue
So far my impression is that while some of the bigger problems that started appearing over time are made a little better, this version isn't as good as v10 was when it was released. They do sometimes take over entire civs again (though not as often), usually have decent expansion rates and have decent tech rates, unit counts and victory times. But a couple of things have gotten plain worse, the causes of which I haven't been able to diagnose (and it's likely outside of what I can touch). Main ones being:
- Settle spot evaluation seems to have changed in a way that makes forward settling more likely.
- They frequently ignore cities in sieges again, instead taking ages to clean the units up. Except of course when they should focus on the units first.
- Max unit limit on operations no longer functioning, which often makes them run 20 units along with a settler instead of attacking something with them. An example:
. Of course as is typical, despite this massive escort, none of the units are actually directly guarding the settler.
- Barb scouts now seem to capture civilians regardless of the barb homeland tactical moves (this used to be how you could change whether they would). This really hurts some AIs early game and barb settlers are everywhere
Here's what I have so far if anyone would like to test it out in real games, I have to do most testing in AI only games myself because of how long real games take. Some real game feedback would be awesome if anyone is willing to try. This is not really a full fledged release yet though, so there may be issues.
Edit: nvm, removed link for now. Found a major issue
So far my impression is that while some of the bigger problems that started appearing over time are made a little better, this version isn't as good as v10 was when it was released. They do sometimes take over entire civs again (though not as often), usually have decent expansion rates and have decent tech rates, unit counts and victory times. But a couple of things have gotten plain worse, the causes of which I haven't been able to diagnose (and it's likely outside of what I can touch). Main ones being:
- Settle spot evaluation seems to have changed in a way that makes forward settling more likely.
- They frequently ignore cities in sieges again, instead taking ages to clean the units up. Except of course when they should focus on the units first.
- Max unit limit on operations no longer functioning, which often makes them run 20 units along with a settler instead of attacking something with them. An example:
Spoiler :
- Barb scouts now seem to capture civilians regardless of the barb homeland tactical moves (this used to be how you could change whether they would). This really hurts some AIs early game and barb settlers are everywhere
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Siesta Guru
Prince
Ok. Here's a new update with a couple of further improvements, mainly to settling behavior.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wdwxowlq5fqexqu/AI+ v10.6.rar?dl=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wdwxowlq5fqexqu/AI+ v10.6.rar?dl=1
Gah! I just started a game last night...
I will say on v10.5 one large civ got taken out completely early game and all civs seemed to have built plenty of units but never seemed to position them outside their borders.
onto v10.6!
Siesta Guru
Prince
Thanks for trying it Smity 
Let me know if you encounter anything interesting! I'll try to get a full release in during the coming week
Let me know if you encounter anything interesting! I'll try to get a full release in during the coming weekI played a partial game on prince and a complete game on emporer yesterday using v10.6. No glaring issues from what I saw. AI declared some surprise and formal wars on me and did a fine job of (forward) settling. No other mods.
I just started an immortal game yesterday evening and nothing else to report. Looking forward to playing more!
I just started an immortal game yesterday evening and nothing else to report. Looking forward to playing more!
Siesta Guru
Prince
Siesta Guru updated AI+ with a new update entry:
v11 - Summer patch fixes
Read the rest of this update entry...
v11 - Summer patch fixes
Read the rest of this update entry...
Siesta Guru
Prince
Alright the new version is out. I hope you'll all enjoy it.
In this version the AI isn't as warlike as it used to be after the launch of v10, but it should be more so than after the summer patch. The sim-city skills of the AI should be quite a bit better than before too. AI Science victories around 1900 seem decently common on emperor+.
Unfortunately I couldn't fix some of the summer patch oddities, such as the AIs coming up with trade offers they won't accept and the ancient era nuclear power comments.
In this version the AI isn't as warlike as it used to be after the launch of v10, but it should be more so than after the summer patch. The sim-city skills of the AI should be quite a bit better than before too. AI Science victories around 1900 seem decently common on emperor+.
Unfortunately I couldn't fix some of the summer patch oddities, such as the AIs coming up with trade offers they won't accept and the ancient era nuclear power comments.
Siesta Guru
Prince
Yep, it's up now.
This version isn't too different from the one you were already trying Smity, so you don't have to start a new game.
for v11 being out!
Siesta, have you seen this post about some SQL changes?
Can it be some sense for you?
That just reduces the cost of producing units, I don't think that is the point of improving the AI
Siesta Guru
Prince
Yeah I've had my own balance mod in the works for a while, which happens to make the AI much stronger. While it makes a huge difference in AI capabilities, I wouldn't want to merge it into AI+ since not everyone likes balance changes, and since many would like different ones.
Not sure if I'll ever end up releasing the balance mod though. I don't really play the game enough anymore to know how the balance has evolved and the mod still needs a lot of work.
Not sure if I'll ever end up releasing the balance mod though. I don't really play the game enough anymore to know how the balance has evolved and the mod still needs a lot of work.
