Alarming silence of Firaxis

[ImperialGuard]

And it goes on in this thread even, with ImperialGuard's bizarre claim that BTS was conceived as nothing more than an attempt to "milk the cash cow" and did not at all add to the game. Whaaaaa???

Technically I didn't say they did not add anything to the game, what I was illustrating (in my opinion) was that they produced BTS with minimal effort/cost

CIV4 expansion (which tens (hundreds?) of thousands have) + minimal effort/cost = opportunity to make sizeable profit....

.... based on this premise ("milk the cash cow") we shouldn't expect any communication from Firaxis, and maybe one more patch (to fix bugs introduced in 3.13).... after that I'd be surprised if we get anything else .... they've moved on to other things ...

And I don't think I'm trashing Firaxis here ... just theorizing as to the reason why they made BTS and the corresponding reason for the "alarming silence of Firaxis"

 

[TheWilltoAct]

Well I have heard that it is basically the biggest expansion to a civ game ever... now I do not know whether that is true or not but imo the things they added really really fleshed out the civ game, making it far more fun and interesting. The level of balance which exists in civ makes me think that simply "milking the cash cow" might not even be something that can be applied to a civ game... in the sense that any change to such a complex strategy intensive game has tremendous potential ramifications which the developers have to deal with.

 

[Duuk]

We've bitten the hand that feeds us

I just checked. Firaxis failed to pay me for taking BTS off of their hands.

Ergo, I believe I fed them.

 

[gps]

Well I have heard that it is basically the biggest expansion to a civ game ever... now I do not know whether that is true or not but imo the things they added really really fleshed out the civ game, making it far more fun and interesting.

And they also added a lot of bugs. Bugs for me at least make a game much less fun a a lot less interesting. As far as Civ III is concerend, I rather play PtW instead of Conquests. As far as Civ IV is concerned, I rather play Warlords. Should the Bugs of BtS never be fixed - and after the experiences with III you can't deny there's a slight chance, things might turn out the same way for IV as well - the 30 bucks spent for BtS for me would be cash thrown out of the window. So they better fix them, that's all we want, it's only fair, we remind them now and then. If not I can guarantee, I wont buy a second expansion for Civ V, because we've lerant the hard way already it propably won't get fixed properly anyway. And I probably also wouldn't buy the main installment and the first expansion. If that's what they want, I can only encurage them to continue selleing us Civ-Expansions that never get finished properly.

 

[CivAgamemnon]

I wonder if software falls under the purview of a consumer protection agency? I think it's about time someone held these companies to the same standard that a gadget or a car is produced with. If a company like Ford made a car as buggy as BtS, they'd get their butts reamed with a 50 foot pole, courtesy of the U.S. Government. The new patch is like they fixed something wrong with the headlights on the car, but introduced another bug that effects the turn signals.

That being said, I agree we're the hand that feeds them, and they *bit* us. If we didn't buy their buggy products, they would not exist. Their silence just means that they simply don't care, and they know people will buy their stuff no matter what.

I've learned my lesson. Never again am I buying software until after a year has passed, no matter the temptation. It simply isn't worth the money or the hassle, or the wait time of a patch. I have plenty of other games to play that work better than BtS. Warlords or Vanilla for example. Or even my PS2. Just call me a disgruntled and pissed off customer.

 

[MrWhereItsAt]

• They added espionage (dug out the code from Civ1 / Civ2)

This is the funniest thing I have seen in this thread to date. "Dug out the code"?

And c'mon guys, the patch may not perfect, but there's not many game companies out there that listen to what the fans want/want fixed more than Firaxis have, at least since the build-up to BTS began. That's the reason we got a patch so quickly that fixed and tweaked so many things.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

Uhm the game is still super super fun to play... so I think this might be getting a little out of proportion... o.O
I love BTS and I play it all day and night =P
So don't get so bent out of shape about the bugs that you decide the game isn't worth playing :/

And lol yeah that is funny MrWhereItsAt LOL

 

[CivAgamemnon]

Uhm the game is still super super fun to play... so I think this might be getting a little out of proportion... o.O
I love BTS and I play it all day and night =P
So don't get so bent out of shape about the bugs that you decide the game isn't worth playing :/

And lol yeah that is funny MrWhereItsAt LOL

Just a little, yes. It's a pattern, dude. Feels like they expect us to buy their products and beta-test them, report bugs to them, then they fix it. If it's a beta product, why don't they say so?

I guess it's plain frustration at their lack of responsiveness. Look at Bhruic, he seems to have fixed a lot of the stuff in a fraction of the time it took them. Makes you wonder what they're doing there.

Just needed to blow off steam. Going back to my Warlords game now. Give me a call when BtS finally gets ironed out.

 

[vodlaian]

Just a little, yes. It's a pattern, dude. Feels like they expect us to buy their products and beta-test them, report bugs to them, then they fix it. If it's a beta product, why don't they say so?

I have noticed that this has become a common trend amongst these companies. Instead of going through the normal beta testing period and making sure the game is as bug free as possible, they release the game unfinished, get everyone's cash, use their cash to go on vacation, then come back and finish the game. That way they get paid before having to even finish the product. Sure people can argue what I'm saying, then all I need to do is point out the many MANY games that get released with bugs which can be observed within a few minutes of playing and can be reproduced every time, there is no excuse for that. Software/game companies are one of the only groups who can get away with selling people unfinished products, they are also one of the only groups who somehow manage to make the customer look like the bad guy for complaining.

 

[gps]

So don't get so bent out of shape about the bugs that you decide the game isn't worth playing :/

Really don't want to discuss things further, just two comments:
It's my privilege to decide what I think is worth playing or spending money and time on.
And it's not your privilege to call me 'bent out of shape for that'.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

It's my privilege to say as I like, it's your privilege to disagree.

 

[CivAgamemnon]

So let's just agree to disagree, and leave it at that. The peace must be kept, lest we fall under the moderator's glare and rod!

We wouldn't be humans if we didn't disagree over a game we care so passionately for. Better to be human than Vulcan, sometimes.

 

[gunter]

I am seeing that moderators here are intelligent people that let freely discuss and complain without censure. Of course insulting is not tolerated so please don't insult each other,let's forward them to Firaxis .. I'm joking of course.

Just a snapshot : changing a single dll with a new one also explained in a perfect way inside the read me is definetly easy even for computer rookies so it is enough to read carefully the short read me and the switch is immediately done with no risk. Bhruic my compliments again.

Back to the thread's title I encourage Firaxis to chat with forumers and they are surelly not late to do that. Everyone can make mistakes in terms of programming and in terms of total lack of comunication but these errors can be overtaken talking friendly with us,if they do not consider themselves rockstars of course. ...

Please 2K guys, Civilization and Console are two words that don't stand together very well....therefore get rid of those kiddie arcade Civ Revolutions and get back to Civ core business,pc fields neighboorhood.

 

[gps]

We wouldn't be humans if we didn't disagree over a game we care so passionately for.

I am the last who has a problem with controverse discussions. But beeing called 'bent out of shape' for me is hard on the edge of beeing an insult. And that's not a privilege, if I read the forum rules correctly. Anyone disagrees? Peace! Thanks!

P.S.: Thanks gunter, that's exactly what I meant. Was just writing, while you already postet...

 

[MarkM]

I have seen people state this a number of times on the boards (heck even a mod typed up something similar)...

FYI

We feed them.

No, you fed them when you bought BTS 3.0. With the 3.13 patch, they are feeding you. Firaxis did not get an extra dime from you for that.

 

[jray]

It wouldn't be that hard for Bhruic or someone to make a self-extracting zip that automatically puts the .dll into the default directory on your machine. This obviously would only be for people who installed the game into the default directory, but that's the exact people such as yourself.

Wodan

But wouldn't that overwrite the vanilla DLL? How about making an installation program that re-names the vanilla DLL to CvGameCoreDLL.bak, and when it's uninstalled, reverts to it?

 

[Methos]

While it would be nice to know what their plans/timetable is, I also know that if I worked for Firaxis, there would be no way in H-E-double hockey sticks that I would ever post a status report at this site ever again. Not after the way alexman got reamed. We've bitten the hand that feeds us, sadly, and now we all live with the consequences.

I agree and find the title of this thread humorous. After the way Alex was treated, I'd be shocked if Firaxis informed us beforehand of a patch. Remember that Firaxis is not required to inform us of anything. If they wish to inform us prior to its release, than its because they want to, not because they have to.

The statement of "biting the hand that feeds you" isn't in regards to Firaxis and BTS, but is in regards to "attacking" the individual who was being nice enough to pass information to us. The small group of CFC'er "bit him", so now he's stopped "feeding us". I hear people saying that he should act more professional, but in the same instance that group that was attacking him should act more adult.

Sorry, I'm getting off topic. Basically, I totally expect silence from Firaxis. They have learned what happens when they "feed us" information, so what reason do they have to do it again?

 

[Civinator]

so what reason do they have to do it again?

They have none. And I´m very sad about the way Alexman was treated by the Civ 4 community. He even gave us some of the best informations to understand mechanism of Civ 3 and for all that thank you very much Alexman.

On the other side, I think we have a lot of reasons to remember everyone and at every possible opportunity about the way FIRAXIS left Civ 3 Conquest without fixing and adjusting the things they should do.

Even there, at first there was silence and then the announcement to do something quite different (Civ 4) and to leave all customers who have paid for their Civ 3 products with all the buggy features they did advertise so that these customers had bought these products. And this silence lasts until today... No word, that at least we can try to fix these bugs ourselves, no word about integrating the still existing no-raze-solution with Civ 3.

There are parallels in that probleme and the theme of this thread and it is no wonder that this feeling always comes back to the civers. Who behaves once like that, can do it twice and always again. Blizzard gave their community the last patch for Starcraft more than ten years after this game was released. FIRAXIS, please help your C3C customers and give them some support.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Just a snapshot : changing a single dll with a new one also explained in a perfect way inside the read me is definetly easy even for computer rookies so it is enough to read carefully the short read me and the switch is immediately done with no risk.

It is not. I tried and messed things up. Be tolerant.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

I agree and find the title of this thread humorous. After the way Alex was treated, I'd be shocked if Firaxis informed us beforehand of a patch. Remember that Firaxis is not required to inform us of anything. If they wish to inform us prior to its release, than its because they want to, not because they have to.

The statement of "biting the hand that feeds you" isn't in regards to Firaxis and BTS, but is in regards to "attacking" the individual who was being nice enough to pass information to us. The small group of CFC'er "bit him", so now he's stopped "feeding us". I hear people saying that he should act more professional, but in the same instance that group that was attacking him should act more adult.

Sorry, I'm getting off topic. Basically, I totally expect silence from Firaxis. They have learned what happens when they "feed us" information, so what reason do they have to do it again?

You are contradicting yourself. First, you tell us that the "hand that was feeding us" belonged to "the individual who was being nice enough to pass information to us", not to Firaxis. Then you declare that you "expect total silence from Firaxis" because "they have learned what happens when they 'feed us' information." You can't have it both ways.

Considering how buggy the recent patch is, it is quite reasonable to expect a new patch from Firaxis fairly soon; and Firaxis posting information that they are working on it would be simple courtesy to customers. If, for some reason, they don't want to post the news here, they can do it at their own website. However, that website has links to both CFC and Apolyton, so presumably they regard those two websites as semi-official sources of information.