Alarming silence of Firaxis

I really have a hard time grasping why people are so upset. :confused:

I guess folks here just take this game a lot more seriously than I do. Trying to analyze why a patch introduced new bugs is a big waste of time. It happens all the time. QA misses stuff because there is too much to test in a short amount of time, or a last second change goes in with ver little testing,. It isn't the same thing when a community member fixes something. With all the beauracracy that goes with releasing a new patch to the public, they couldn't fix a typo and turn around a new patch in a matter of days. Plus, quite frankly, if they actually let the ultra hardcore fanatics influence every decision they made their product would not appeal to the wider market of people that just want to play the game and have fun. The fact that many of the denizens of this forum ripped Firaxis a new one because a developer went out of his way to feed you good early informaion is a shame.

Obvoiusly, we all very much enjoy this game, and somebody did a pretty decent job because we are all here spending our time talking about it when we can't play it. As the old saying goes "Don't bite the hand that feeds you ".

Anyway, Good Luck with your whines!
 
ripple01 said:
Um, because we're not paying Bhruic for his work and we did pay Firaxis for theirs?

Cheers,
ripple01
Click to expand...

Agreed.

It is a double standard, but that doesn't make it inherently wrong. If a community member takes time out of their own schedule to bring us a patch and it has some mistakes, I can easily be forgiving and patiently wait for a fix. However, when industry professionals who have received my money for a product make mistakes, I expect it corrected post-haste, and the longer I have to wait for said correction, the less likely it will be that I am forgiving and patient.

Granted I don't know that Bhruic isn't a programmer, but the fact is, what he did was 100% charity work on his part and Firaxis programmers are paid employees so they most certainly should be held to a higher standard. Even if Bhruic is a programmer, he was not operating in a professional capacity and therefore should not be held to the same standards as those who are.

Also, the argument that they don't make any money on patches is debatable and IMO incorrect. Their patching process and customer support for a flawed product will certainly make them money if handled well. On the other hand, it will cost them future earnings if handled poorly. As an example, I will say that there is at least one software company making games right now that I have turned more than a few people away from. That was without actively doing so but merely providing information when the subject of their games arose, so yes, working patches or the lack thereof can most certainly be a financial investment or potential loss for a software company.
 
People have different opinions on the matter here,the discussion output is plenty of personal point of views. Despiting I can agree or not or I can be exactly on the same frequency of some forumers meanwhile I would definitely blame other ones there have always been the basic rule ; a discussion.


I am still waiting for a missing component to JOIN here
 
I ain't going to jump into alot of this but the reason I think it should be patched officially soon is for Multi-player. (The game was built from the ground up for multiplayer and advertised as such.)

Also, I enjoy BTS. Although I will be frustrated an quit feeding Firaxis my money if they don't further address this. As this will be 2 games in a row they just abandoned. I personally doubt that this will be the final patch. It just seems way to rediculous to leave off on. But I also wouldn't be shocked if it happened considering Firaxis's support level since the release of 4.

I am along the mindset that we feed them instead of the other way around. If you think Firaxis is feeding you, you are a horrible consumer. People like 2k see you coming a mile away. Consumers define the market, not the otherway around.
To use a very quote from the game: Everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it.

How much is Civ 5 worth to you if they don't ever patch Civ 4? Making 2 titles in a row that were abandon - regardless of the reasonings on both, it would be fact nonetheless. If 4 was never patched again form here on out, Civ 5 isn't worth much to me. And will actually degrade in value as expansions come out.

What happened to Alexman was a bad deal. But as I have said before, the information he released should have been posted on the webpage for Civ 4 not on a fansite. It was a simple passionate mistake and the "fans" here punished him severly for it. He was doing the community a 'favor' by announcing it here. And I agree that I do not expect him to do so again in the future, I think it shouldn't have happened that way in the first place. It should have been released on the public Civ 4 site, (the one that directs everyone here) and then only discussed here. Such as the Dennis Shirk comment back in vanilla days was.

However, I do enjoy BTS and I doubt that future efforts on a patch have been abandoned although I understand it isn't a far-fetched possibility. If the latter is the case, then anyone disappointed should avoid buying Civ 5. As I garauntee 5 would be abandoned in the same fashion as many consumers on this very forum will still be pre-ordering 5 to show their devotion to a title that abandons a project before it is finished to work on the next idea they plan to abandon when they can't squeeze another dime from their fanbase.
 
Naw, what I mean is if you go to CivIV.com, their site directs you here. This is where the Alexman info on the patch should have been released. I don't know why they pay for server space for that site when they never use it.
 
SwordofStriker said:
Granted I don't know that Bhruic isn't a programmer, but the fact is, what he did was 100% charity work on his part and Firaxis programmers are paid employees so they most certainly should be held to a higher standard. Even if Bhruic is a programmer, he was not operating in a professional capacity and therefore should not be held to the same standards as those who are.
Click to expand...

And that is exactly the point of my original post. I was not debating if/when Firaxis should fix this patch or release another. If they created game breaking issues, like seems to have happened with multiplayer, then yes they should update/fix as soon as possible.

The whole point of my original post was that you can not compare Firaxis with an individual like Bhruic precisely because we hold them to a higher standard. It is unfair to say "If Bhruic can do it in 3 days, why can't Firaxis? See - Firaxis is incompetent!"
 
Indeed, and we should hold the company with dedicated staff that designed the entire game in the first place to a higher standard than this Bhruic fellow.
 
What you're confusing is "higher standard" with "speed of response".

These are two separate things. Faster does not always mean better. And, better does not always include faster. It can, and it sometimes does, respectively.

Every single one of us would like instant gratification. The world doesn't work that way.

Personally, I think the current setup is pretty darn ideal. We get patches within days from Solver or Bhruic, and we also get company sanction later when they are able to incorporate the fixes.

People who want both simply want to "have their cake and eat it too". You can ask for it, but to get obstinate and offended when it doesn't happen strikes me as an unreasonable expectation.

Wodan
 
It makes sense to feel offended if you think of it as the company (Firaxis) failing to deliver a polished product to their customers. A customer has the right to expect a quality product, and to complain when that expectation is not met.
 
My opinion is that the today's 3.13 patch is the alpha or beta version of the definitive patch that Firaxis really intended to make ( they messed up too much stuff to the corrections they actually made.... I think that clearly shows that the patch project was wider than its current form ), and by some reason ( probably because of the fans or wage payers pressure ( choose one ) they decided to release it as it was. The best decision? Probably not.....
They intend to make the whole job? I'm not sure ( I remember the tragic end of Civ III Conquests... ), but it would be stupid not to, even if to not loose the core of the fans ( people are not getting younger and some loose interest ) that seriously helped Firaxis to make the games and in which Firaxis unofficially outsourced the troubleshooting and tech support ( just look at the CivIV.com site: last update from Firaxis to that site was the release of patch 1.61.... the only updated thing are the links to the CFC and to the "Greek" forum last updated threads ). Things are quite sour between a significant part of the fans of CivIV and Firaxis and letting BtS as a ghost ship may make some people to leave Civing for good... ( or just play older versions... for Firaxis is the same thing )
 
TheWilltoAct said:
It makes sense to feel offended if you think of it as the company (Firaxis) failing to deliver a polished product to their customers. A customer has the right to expect a quality product, and to complain when that expectation is not met.
Click to expand...
Sure, and I agree they snarfed up. What's happening though, is people are saying, "See, Solver and Bhruic can do it in 2 days, so why can't Firaxis?" That's where the disconnect is happening.

Wodan
 
I don't think a lot of people understand the process a patch has to go through before being released and I'm not just talking about the beta-testing, but from the beginning. Anyone who's worked at any sort of medium size company and bigger knows how slow it takes to get anything done. Solver and Bhruic are individuals working on their own. They make all decisions and do not have to answer, or seek a higher authority to do it. Firaxis does not have that capability. I don't think people understand the full process.
 
Right! And as things stand now, we get both solutions. Both the individual / fast response, and the full company response. That's why I think we, as consumers, have a good situation as it stands right now.

Not that things couldn't be improved... no one person and no company is perfect... but let's ask for things that are reasonable. e.g., asking for an official Firaxis representative to post on the official site is reasonable. IMO asking for Firaxis to "change the laws of Physics" (for you Star Trek fans out there) is not.

Anyway, just my two cents. :)

Wodan
 
Wodan said:
Right! And as things stand now, we get both solutions. Both the individual / fast response, and the full company response. That's why I think we, as consumers, have a good situation as it stands right now.
Click to expand...

This is incredible logic. The only reason we even need the unofficial patches is because Firaxis regularly puts out patches that are COMPLETELY SCREWED. Just how that can be twisted into a positive thing I don't know! :lol:
 
Hey, 3.13 isn't as screwed up for Single-Player as the dreaded 3.03. And Bh hasn't made as many changes as Solver's Patch did for the 3.0X. Of course, he's still working on it (by the looks of things).

Work with what you get. Don't forget, you don't like something about a patch/unit/building/leader/whatever, you usually can change it yourself for this Civ.
 
vilemerchant said:
This is incredible logic. The only reason we even need the unofficial patches is because Firaxis regularly puts out patches that are COMPLETELY SCREWED. Just how that can be twisted into a positive thing I don't know! :lol:
Click to expand...
You're overstating the situation. One has only to look at the change list to see how many things were fixed. Yes, they loused up 2 or 3 things. However, that's only 2-3% of the change list, if that. 2-3% is a far cry from COMPLETELY SCREWED.

Wodan
 
Wodan said:
You're overstating the situation. One has only to look at the change list to see how many things were fixed. Yes, they loused up 2 or 3 things. However, that's only 2-3% of the change list, if that. 2-3% is a far cry from COMPLETELY SCREWED.

Wodan
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, and when looking at the patch from a single player perspective you're absolutely right.

However, some people are more interested in the multi-player aspect of the game, which is as vilemerchant stated, "completely screwed" for many people who had no problem previously.
 
I have to say you've got me there. I haven't played MP in a while (though I've been meaning to get back into it... I tend to go in waves), but I have heard some alarming reports of, how to say, rampant disconnectivity. That would annoy me to no end, during one of my MP "waves".

That's good question, though. Are the MP problems (hotseat games aside) something that an unofficial patch is incapable of fixing, because of the nature of the MP interface? Thus, the only solution is an official patch? Anyone know?

Wodan
 
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