• Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .

ALC Game 12: Japan/Tokugawa

Well that round certainly went as well as you could have hoped. The decision to go after Mehmed certainly seems to have paid off. You're in such a dominant position that it appears that the result of this game is no longer in doubt. Certainly a big difference from the last ALC game where you went into the last round not knowing if you win or lose. :D

Even economically I think you're in a much stronger position than the current GNP standing indicates. Things will improve dramatically once Bursa comes out of revolt and Edirne grows some population and gets a border expansion (BTW Edirne and Bursa should be building culture until they get a border expansion). Add in some multiplier buildings and I would expect you to move quickly toward the top of the GNP standings.

As to who to attack next, I think arguments can be made for either JC or Freddy.

As many have pointed out, JC is your main rival and taking him out now will prevent him from getting stronger. To be honest I don't see this as a major issue as JC's UU has already seen its best years, and you have a substantial production advantage on him. Still, attacking the strongest AI and leaving the weakest for later is usually a good play.

OTOH Freddy is so weak that you can begin an attack on Germany almost immediately where you'd want to do some build up before attacking Rome. Attacking Freddy also doesn't leave your core cities exposed, and in fact since JC is pleased with you I don't think he would join in on Freddy's side. You would rather quickly acquire some good cities including Cologne which would make a good HE city and Berlin which would make a good NE city (if you're willing to wait a bit to build those National Wonders). And you've already pointed out that a quickly launched attack on Freddy also might help you get Liberalism.

If you want to build HE in one of your current cities I would recommend Tokyo. Remember that the only reason Kyoto has the most hammers is that you are running Bureaucracy. Given the number of towns and soon-to-be towns you captured from Mehmed you'll probably want to switch to Free Speech relatively soon. Also putting HE in Tokyo means it can speed up the building of ships, and you're going to need a sizable navy to invade the other continent.
 
...but most of those lands will be making enough commerce to get them past the maintenance costs quickly, if not as soon as they leave resistance.

This is actually a good point. While capturing cities early in the game almost always hurts your economy, capturing cottage spammed cities later in the game can actually help your economy. That was probably the case with the Ottoman cities.

Unfortunately it doesn't appear that either Freddy or JC have done much cottage spamming (and to make matters worse Freddy's workers are currently farming over some villages :mad: ). Still there are enough matured cottage tiles available that those cities should pay their upkeep at least.

So at this point I don't think there's an economic reason to stop conquering.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but why did you trade Philosophy away for Music? This move might cost you the Liberalism race, as you seem to vaguely acknowledge.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but why did you trade Philosophy away for Music? This move might cost you the Liberalism race, as you seem to vaguely acknowledge.
I think I wanted the gold more than the tech. Nobody's perfect. :p
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but why did you trade Philosophy away for Music? This move might cost you the Liberalism race, as you seem to vaguely acknowledge.

Not only did trading it give a boost to the AI in the lib race, it put the AI in the race at all. I don't know if warlords is different, but in my games in vanilla, once Taoism is founded, the AI will wait forever to get Philosophy, leaving me in a one-horse race for liberalism.
 
I think I wanted the gold more than the tech. Nobody's perfect.

And everybody loves to nitpick :D But, seriously, don't do that again :nono: :lol:

Thankfully it isn't that big a deal in this game, as carl corey said.
 
Not only did trading it give a boost to the AI in the lib race, it put the AI in the race at all. I don't know if warlords is different, but in my games in vanilla, once Taoism is founded, the AI will wait forever to get Philosophy, leaving me in a one-horse race for liberalism.

Warlords is much the same. It allows you to beat the AI to Liberalism on higher levels or get better techs from it (I managed to get Radio from it on Prince).
 
JC should be next, and when JC is nearly finished (i.e., when just Ravenna, Neapolis, & Apuche are left), I would suggest assembling a small army south of Fredrick and bringing down a portion of your experienced army in ex-Rome to wipe out Fredrick (just be careful that Fredrick doesn’t sneak into one of your newly conquered Roman cities). The obvious benefit being that you get his land quicker, but also you can stop warring sooner which will allow for earlier preparation for a naval attack and earlier victory.

I like the plan of attack on JC.

As Patagonia suggested, build a military instructor in the HE city, and I would add make that city a coastal city with the most production in preparation for a naval attack. I am guessing that city will be Konya, but it could be a Roman /German city instead.

Munich would make a nice GP farm, but you might not want to wait that long before building NE.

As for the liberalism race, you are behind right now, but that could be made up by capitulating/peace treaty JC in exchange for needed techs (if he has them). Same could be done with Freddy, though Freddy’s cities might be too tempting to not have as your own, maybe a peace treaty in exchange for a tech when Freddy only has 1 city remaining - preferably an inland one, so he can’t try and sail off and settle somewhere else. This should not drastically affect the plan of attacking JC and Fred that I suggested above.

I was happy to see an attack on Mehmed. Having his cities early will secure the win very soon, if not already. His land was great, and now, your land is remarkable. I find on Monarch that even if the war on Mehmed had not succeeded, usually you can recover. I look forward to seeing the next level.

Last and least, although it is not necessary in this game, if you have a chance to try out the “rope-o-dope” strategy I suggested in the pre-game thread I would do a little dance.
 
I would go after Julius Caesar. He is powerful. IMHO, if you wipe him out things will be a lot easier later on. The others aren't that important yet I think.
 
I think that Freddy has to be dealt with soon. He is the only one in danger of taking liberalism from you, and that would be quite a blow. Attacking him will almost insure that you get liberalism. For this reason, you should attack him first and then go after JC with a mix of Samurai and CR Grenadiers.
 
I think that Freddy has to be dealt with soon. He is the only one in danger of taking liberalism from you, and that would be quite a blow.
If there's one thing I've learned about playing Prince & above, it's that losing the Liberalism race is rarely a game-breaker. The AI usually takes some crappy tech like Gunpowder or Astronomy, and if your economy is strong enough, it's easy to catch up. Freddy's not even close to becoming the tech leader, heck it's probably best that he get Lib just to keep JC from getting it.

Besides, Sisiutil already explained that he needed the cash...though I suspect he's merely covering up for what really was a :smoke: move. ;)
 
I was not saying that it is a game breaker, as I know that a larger and superiorily (if that's a word) managed human emprie can easily catch up with the AI. However, as Sisiutil, and many other, are saying that they want to go for an early domination win, it seems like any advantage would be worth it.
 
Well, let's not dwell on this. I'm sure Sisiutil is deeply ashamed for his trade right now ;) , but we'll still want him to post the update.
Yeah, it was a moment of carelessness, with me regarding Philosophy as tech trading fodder rather than remembering its utility on the Liberalism track (and that it's better to wait to trade it after the Liberalism race is done). I'll remember next time.

EDIT: I still think that Liberalism may be salvageable by lightbulbing Education with my next Great Scientist, who arrives in a couple of turns IIRC. The AI is usually intimidated by Education's long research time.
 
Great game so far! Just as a side note, in one of my Vanilla games (Prince level), a civ I was at war with (can't remember who) beat me to Liberalism by a just few turns... However, I then finished them off completely, discovered Liberalism myself a turn or two later, and still got the free technology! Assuming this hasn't changed in Warlords, you might be more likely to 'win' the Liberalism race by declaring war on Freddy (even if he beats you to it). I guess you would just have to wait for Liberalism unitl Freddy is dead and hope he does't trade it away before then...
 
If you get liberalism first is there a chance you can use it to turn Freddy on JC or vice versa? This would weaken both a lot and would make it a lot easier for you to take control of the land.
 
If you get liberalism first is there a chance you can use it to turn Freddy on JC or vice versa? This would weaken both a lot and would make it a lot easier for you to take control of the land.
I'd shy away from that approach. Both are currently weak enough (Freddy particularly so), so life will be easier in the long run if we don't encourage them to swap to war civics and start training better troops.
 
Top Bottom