ALC Game 16: Persia/Cyrus

[biggamer132]

Cheater. (10 char)

If I were you, Sisiutil, I would refuse to regenerate just to spite these people. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having someone else check the map when the game is for the purpose of strategy discussion in the first place. Not having horses would defeat the entire purpose of the ALC when the UU requires it. If others don't like it, they don't have to read.

 

[Bhruic]

Yeah, calling it "cheating" is going too far. Although I don't appreciate the accusations of "whining" from the other side either. There's nothing wrong with playing a checked map - it just removes some random elements from the game. I personally enjoy having those random elements present. Others might differ.

It is, however, Sisiutil's series, so he can play how he wants. I certainly wouldn't either suggest or recommend a regeneration at this point. But maybe for the next leader, he could let the chips fall as they may.

Bh

 

[Ajidica]

dont regenerate. cyrus is my 2nd fav leader behind mehmed. dont want another dissapointment because mehmed game didnt show me goood stratagy.

 

[Whitefire]

If I were you, Sisiutil, I would refuse to regenerate just to spite these people. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having someone else check the map when the game is for the purpose of strategy discussion in the first place. Not having horses would defeat the entire purpose of the ALC when the UU requires it. If others don't like it, they don't have to read.

Regenerating because you have a poor starting position? It's fine that you want him to "show off" the various aspects of the leaders, but at the same time, he's here to show how to play every leader to it's fullest potential, regardless of starting position. If you're going to show off the leaders' traits, you might as well save time and build the maps in order to guarantee an optimal start. There's no difference between building the map and re-rolling until you get one that "works". Besides, I'd rather see him win without ever using the UU, since that is a for more educational game than, say, the Mongol game where he popped all of those techs.

Oh yeah, no re-roll =P.

 

[martin031]

Where was it posted that Sisiutil ws given more knowledge of the map other than whether or not he was isolated? I looked through the posts and did not see it. Only saw that Welnic was checking for isolation.

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

Where was it posted that Sisiutil ws given more knowledge of the map other than whether or not he was isolated?

Welnic was kind enough to check the start and has confirmed that I am not isolated, and that there are horses somewhere in the vicinity.

10 letters

 

[carl corey]

While other ALCs might be okish even with isolated starts, or no close resource for the UU, I'd say this one would really suck with all of those. Cyrus with no neighbours is almost without an economic bonus. Faster settlers and one more happiness doesn't really matter if you're isolated, as 1) nobody's competing with you for the new sites, only barbs, and 2) you can run Hereditary Rule to grow as much as you can by building only archers in one of the cities and distributing them to the others.

The UU is also pretty integral to Cyrus's strategy. You can't fight with Immortals when the others have Swords or better.

So playing a map that doesn't enable you to use any of his characteristics isn't playing Cyrus. It's playing a generic leader. And ALCs are certainly not about that.

Go with a checked map, Sisiutil. Show us how to use this leader, that's what you started doing, that's what we're looking for from you.

 

[aelf]

Although I think the start should only have been checked for isolation, I'm with the continue this game party. I can understand why you want to play Cyrus with Immortals. For a game with truly unexpected circumstances, we already have the Mehmed game. And who is to say some AI won't grab the horses first? That would make for an interesting early game while not necessarily negating the UU altogether. Still plenty of random elements to expect from this game.

 

[TRJS]

Continue.

It's just a game and those of us who want to see UUs used, which is one of the main reasons for the ALCs, appreciate your efforts.

 

[Ecofarm]

Not cheating. This is not the 'challenge S series'; I'm sure he could win on emporer without horses. I want to see early UU in action and I'm glad this was pre-checked.

P.s. If you want to see a wild horse steal, check out my save in the mongolia game thread. With my 1st settler, I stole horses from Mansa via culture (he built stables for me) and then killed him with them. I then killed Rome to prevent praets, with only Keshiks.

 

[LlamaCat]

I'm not sure why the debate in the first place ... horses will eventually show up somewhere and you have to go fight for them like any other resource, right? don't other civs' unique units require a resource or something or another at some point?

 

[Ecofarm]

If you must fight for horses, the window of opportunity for Immortals is long gone. Imms are only good until your neighbor gets copper.

 

[LlamaCat]

also to clarify I think Immortals replace Horse Archers, not Chariots (see pre-game thread).. I think the Egyptians have the UU for chariots. thanks for fixing that link by the way

Ecofarm: well, these games are marathon speed right? so maybe the window would not be that short and how is it any different than, say, iron for praetorians? I think the whole idea of the game is you have to fight/strategize for anything you want ...besides whatever happened to the idea of getting horses in a resource trade ... so I guess I'm in the camp of not knowing anything about the start, although I don't really care either way I just like to bicker like the rest of you

 

[BlueSoxSWJ]

I'm fine with checking for horses, as long as "in the vicinity" was left just that vague. In the last game I played, there were no horses anywhere in the world . That sort of map would be horrible for this ALC. Besides, how do we know "in the vicinity" doesn't mean "1 tile away from the closest neighbor's capital?" Then, we could see how to go about dealing with that challenge in order to get the UU.

 

[oyzar]

Ecofarm that is not necisarrily true. I played a game where i managed to take out 3 opponents easy with imortals one who had settled his second city on copper, he only had one spearman though so after he attacked my imortal in the forest and actually lost(i was like huh did he attkack? and how come he lost? defencive bonus ftw). You should easily have time to rush someone with axes and then take out the next opponent with imortals.

 

[CivSetä]

Come on guys!

I think that idea of ALC series is to use UU and UB. It is wise to make sure that there is horses nearby, or the game is no more interesting. It may be more hardcore, but what is the point? I want to see some immortal-action, not that game (10% change) where there is no horses around (or isolated start again). And I don't understand why every game should be finished until the bitter end no matter how bad start it is, one may win immortal game playing Cyrus with isolated start on tundra+ice only island without horses or other resources, but IMHO there is no fun in a game like that... it's better to make sure that game is playable.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Nope, Immortals replace chariots.

 

[carl corey]

also to clarify I think Immortals replace Horse Archers, not Chariots (see pre-game thread).. I think the Egyptians have the UU for chariots.

Nope, chariots. There are UUs that replace the same unit; Immortals and War Chariots are an example, there are also Janissaries and Musketeers, Keshiks and Numidian Cavalry, etc.

 

[Hero]

There are some pretty ungrateful buttheads around here. Sisiutil should do whatever he thinks is most fun.

 

[flamingzaroc121]

Play out the map we should have a trust system here and that means that Welnic didnt add anything or modify the map. playing Cyus isolated or without horses you lose not only your UU but the trait of Cha aswell and besides you have already skipped over a horse UU :cough:Hannibal:cough