ALC Game 18: Spain/Isabella

[Jet]

The brown city is a low priority. It will need Civil Service for irrigation and workshops for production.
It shouldn't be, and no it won't. It's a cash cow.

An alternate way to dotmap your front lawn is 3W of Madrid plus 2S of the lake. I like your brown city, but I like my way a little better.

with 3 Religions (assuming you get Conf) that's another 3 Happy from cheap spiritual temples, so Monarchy can be delayed.
Not it's not, and no it can't. All those Missionaries wouldn't be worth it.

 

[kniteowl]

with 3 Religions (assuming you get Conf) that's another 3 Happy from cheap spiritual temples, so Monarchy can be delayed.
Not it's not, and no it can't. All those Missionaries wouldn't be worth it.

Why does he need Monarchy now? Shouldn't he be more focused on horizontal expansion then vertical expansion? Besides Monarchy is generally one of those key techs the AI generally researches early which he can trade for once he picks up Alphabet. I don't see him building garrison units for extra happy to grow his cities in the next round. More likely expansion and rex.

 

[ChinaBlue]

I've only encountered Pacal once in an off-line game so far, and he was right next door to Rome, so I didn't get to know him very well, if you catch my drift. Any opinions on him? .

Talking about a few lines of code as if it's a real person, I say he's a spoiled little brat

Am I good or what?

Yes you are, in fact you're my Civ Idol and I want an autographed picture

 

[Sisiutil]

The brown city is a low priority. It will need Civil Service for irrigation and workshops for production.
It shouldn't be, and no it won't. It's a cash cow.

An alternate way to dotmap your front lawn is 3W of Madrid plus 2S of the lake. I like your brown city, but I like my way a little better.

I take it you're talking about cottaging up all those grasslands then. But neither city will have much in the way of production, will they?

 

[Scarredroman]

Very impressive. Especially by 1050 BC.

Blocking off your peninsula would be a smart move. You wouldn't want to have to go to war with Elizabeth. At least, not until you've found her.

Citywise iwould agree with your positioning and your decision to move the capital, which you can do once you have taken Prague. The placement
of Brown - move INW
Dark Blue I SE
Light Blue 2W

In BtS, provided you have a city no more than two squares from the coast, you can build forts and create a canal.

By the time you have researched Meditation, Masonry and Monotheism, Monarchy will be in the 20 turn range and you'll have all 4 inside the 51.

Monarchy, now offers HR and winery. I'm not so sure it is a game breaking choice at this time.

Metal Casting offers triremes, the Colossus and forges. Triremes can go off exploring. Forges can produce an GE. May the forge be with you.

 

[carl corey]

Nice second round! I didn't see who said that Aachen would be on a hill, but I doubted it with all that floodplains around anyway. Glad you decided to take it out.

 

[Sisiutil]

To bad the Theology Slingshot with Oracle is out the window now. Well it's never too late if you can Change builds and research the correct techs, but that's unlikely. although if you produce a Great Prophet early enough that's four religions and another temple to increase the happy cap.

Not necessarily, I could always take the Oracle out of the queue and put it back in later. Though that seems a little to me in this game--a big part of the reason for the Oracle is to generate Great Prophets, so the sooner I get going on that the better.

I like your thinking on CoL, though. Courthouses do sound appealing if I'm going to REX after Charlie is no more. Plus they add espionage points. Hmmm...

Very impressive. Especially by 1050 BC.

Blocking off your peninsula would be a smart move. You wouldn't want to have to go to war with Elizabeth. At least, not until you've found her.

Citywise iwould agree with your positioning and your decision to move the capital, which you can do once you have taken Prague. The placement
of Brown - move INW
Dark Blue I SE
Light Blue 2W

In BtS, provided you have a city no more than two squares from the coast, you can build forts and create a canal.

I have found Liz; she's SW of the HRE. check out the white-coloured resource indicators in the map.

Sorry, but those city site moves don't make sense to me. Moving brown the way you've indicated gives up the cows, moving dark blue gives up the crabs (and puts it 1 tile from the coast), and moving light blue gives up the fish. Does a canal to an inland city let you build ships, a lighthouse, and a harbour there? I'd be kind of surprised if it did.

However, I am considering Jet's city site suggestions around Madrid.

 

[Sisiutil]

Nice second round! I didn't see who said that Aachen would be on a hill, but I doubted it with all that floodplains around anyway. Glad you decided to take it out.

It was me, being pessimistic. And yes, I'm glad about it too.

 

[Scarredroman]

Brown - NE Chop the forest befoire you settle.Dark blue still keeps the crabs (they're 2 north of proposed city). I'll check out the building harbours etc.

 

[carl corey]

Hmm, tough call between CoL and Monarchy. Metal Casting may seem nice (taking most beakers you can) but you're not Industrious and that means Forges will cost you a fortune to build. You're better off expanding, which is where courthouses help. I agree with kniteowl that for most cities Monarchy will be a two-happiness boost (Wine + one garrison unit). Temples may give you additional happiness for a while if needed and Monarchy will complete them, as you want at least your two 'capitals' to get really big. They're both premium sites and it's probably better to grow them up than to chase every low priority city you could get.

I really wonder which tech path would be better. You're likely to get two trading partners in Lizzy and Pacal if you go for Alphabet, but on the other hand there's Monarchy and the Construction line to be dealt with. I'd say that since you're probably done warring for a while (after you finish Charlie), you can go with Alphabet, maybe hoping to trade for Monarchy.

As for civics, don't forget to get out of Slavery if you don't need it. It's not funny to see your cities' population reduced, unhappy and in disorder due to slave revolts.

 

[Water2Funk]

Great job by 1050 BC!!

In my opinion, you should convert to Buddhism. You have its holy city, and more civs have it in their cities (and like you said, Elizabeth is closer to the Buddhist holy city). Madrid can be a good GP spammer to make The Mahabodhi. Since Barcelona is stubborn with Hinduism, if by the next few turns it doesn't sway under Hinduism, go Buddhist and start building missionaries with Aachen and get Elizabeth squarely under your faith.

Take out Pacal ASAP after Charlie goes down, he's a more aggressive leader and a backstabber (though not as much as HC) as well as a unique unit in the Classical Era, which you can outmatch with Swords and Catapults in the future.

my 2
Water2Funk

 

[kniteowl]

Well... It's kinda hard to know what we should do next but tech Alphabet, finish off Charlie and rex then stop playing so we can see the possible tech trades with the other AIs and maybe explore more territory with your scouts preferably south and west around Lizzy's area.

If you're lucky you might be able to extort techs from charlie if he's still alive after you finish alphabet.

But if I were to play on after Alphabet I'd probably make a beeline to CS while I either bulb the religious techs or building shrines and ultimately beeline to Engineering after CS.

CS=> Machinery=> Construction=>Engineering

But that's thinking too far ahead lol

 

[Fierabras]

Now that Charlemagne is out of the way it might be wise to give more emphasis with spy points towards Elizabeth, your closest neighbour (assuming Pacal is further away).

Be aware that REX-ing will cost you dearly. You might need to spend the first Great Prophet on the Mahabodi, even when you go COL for courthouses (too bad Barcelona will be the Conf shrine city). I think Madrid should build a temple soon for the priest specialist to speed up generation of the great prophet.

Edit: maybe better to stick to the plan of lightbulbing Theology and take the science slider down when needed, but then alphabet should be a priority.

Note: Aachen is connected, so when it comes out of revolt you get +1 happiness from the ivory camp.

 

[JujuLautre]

I like your thinking on CoL, though. Courthouses do sound appealing if I'm going to REX after Charlie is no more. Plus they add espionage points. Hmmm...

Plus a new religion !

 

[madscientist]

Excellent Job!!! I still say COL, you have alot of Territory and will need teh courthouses (and early extra EPs). I'm Isabella would very pleased to get another religion. Gte Theology with a GP and the only religion you will not control would be Judaism (speaking of which you need Masony/Monotheism before you can Bulb Theology).

Finish Charles off, raze PRague, prioritize the Western Cities to establish your borders with Liz.

Pacal Seams more like a builder/techer and should be a decent friend especially if you are the same religion.

 

[EEE_BOY]

agree with your dotmap, its perfect!

another vote for the free CoL, but there will probably only one religion on the other continent. the culture victory might be another option.

MC will put him closer to the UB with the help of GE lightbulb if he can get one or two, but CoL is more important to your REX. so MC<CoL

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Here's my comparison game report, my first time at Monarch level, or maybe 2nd, one was a GOTM when I was a noble level player, needless to say DISASTER...

Ok, Polytheism was first religion, Buddism founded by HRE no diff, exploring warrior popped 4 huts, First for tech "the wheel" Hmm, 2nd for 28 gold..Ho hum...2 more huts both for EXPERIENCE..woo hoo...LEVEL 3 WOODSMAN, He's now called 'Woody Woodpecker' because it pleases me to do so...Uh hey heh heh ya, uh hey heh heh ya, heyheyheyheya

No worker techs or workers as yet, apart from wheel, research is Masonary/monotheism and building 2 work boats, then stonehenge. built 2nd warrior to guard home, as English archer sniffed about. Then plan on mining/bronze working.

Seems to be going as I planned, I'm trying for a game along the lines of....Neil I think it was the wonder capital and 1-3 other cities...one other close by and 2nd by stone accross water. Stone city is going to enable building of stone wonders...ie Pyraminds, Ankor wat, Hagia Sohia. I'm aiming for preist specialists in city.

I'm trying to report on line with your updates, so maybe delayed if I read some of one, and take day or 2 to try forget it, but as it diverges, won't matter. Part 2 all ready has SIGNIFICANTLY DIVERGED.

 

[Porphyrius]

Nicely done.

Your immidiate goal shoud be to expand SSW towards lizzie, to block land.
The land between you is just to good, i mean a pair gold/FPs/rivers. What more could one wish for?
But do hurry especially for the 2 gold city, Lizzy is heading west but for how much longer?

Monarchy feels just wrong, despite the wine and the costless civic change. Now, you should have easy access to no less than 3 resources and a religion. I see no immidiate need for more. Besides, while land is available why bother with vertical expansion. Especially on a land swarming with FPs and resources.
CE looks a more viable option too.

Between CoL and MC i'd go for CoL, though its a tough call. Its a matter of vs and right now economy seem more important. Ofcourse if later we have to go on a spree of religious infrastructure build we will regret it.

Your dot map looks fine. Though this being a rather rare case in an ALC to not have a mostly explored continent map yet, i hope theres no major surprises. Oh, blame the (lack) of scouts...

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I'd go Code of Laws too. A religion with its free missionary isn't to be sniffed at. Make sure you have meditation for monasteries and get your religions spread around to all cities that need temples for happiness. Trade for monarchy. Forges take ages to build, so I'd only get metal casting if you are desperate to build triremes or the colossus.

 

[KMadCandy]

Not necessarily, I could always take the Oracle out of the queue and put it back in later. Though that seems a little to me in this game--a big part of the reason for the Oracle is to generate Great Prophets, so the sooner I get going on that the better.

I like your thinking on CoL, though. Courthouses do sound appealing if I'm going to REX after Charlie is no more. Plus they add espionage points. Hmmm...

100% true on both paragraphs.

Plus a new religion !

that's true but is it necessarily good? we already have the buddhist and hindu holy cities, and we're hoping for the christian one too. if we lock up Conf for ourselves, that'll be 4 right there. and that's before we ever consider how soon we want pacifism or just to learn philo for lib race, or debate maybe gunning for DR for spiral.

sometimes a run on religions is good, sometimes it's bad. obviously, if an AI found a religion so that they're likely to spread it and stick to it has implications diplomatically. especially so here when our goal is an AP win. how do we want to do it? convert everybody to one faith and we all love each other and hope they vote for us? or hope that other faiths spread to them (hoping can include sending missionaries) so that they qualify as AP voting members but not full members?

courthouses are lovely things. even better in BtS than before, with the spy points. but given the goal of this game, think about the implications of being the founder of Conf. might be great, i'm not saying don't do it. it's just that i don't really know how you want to approach the "diplomatic" aspect of your victory goal here. there are a couple ways to do it, and they're wildly different from each other, so things like this are big turning points. we talked around it a bunch pre-game, maybe there was an answer there that i missed. maybe we don't have a set in stone answer because the world always evolves ... well, this is a point where what we do would probably be a big fat part of that.

ps nice job on that mean guy's capital. you sure showed him!