ALC Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar

[KaytieKat]

I'm not too familiar with war weariness mechanics, but could you not capture Berlin and use the Statue of Zeus against your enemies?

Also, note Mehmed's crappy placement of Samsun. *sigh*

Hi

Well the problem with using SoZ against someone is they have to be fighting in your territory for it to kick in which is usually NOT a good thing since most times you would rather most of the battles be happening on theirs (its kinda like this quote that a Spartan was supposed to give during war with Athens an Athenian asks "How can you say the Spartans are supperior warriors when so many Spartans lay dead on Athenien lands? Spartan answers "Because there are NO dead Atheniens on Spartan lands").

Wich is kinda sucky. I dont know if owning it makes the AI less likely to attack which I am not sure it does. And if it doesnt it is pretty much a wonder you really want to own but ONLY benefit you really get out of it is to make sure no one else will have it then :/.

Kaytie

 

[iamnleth]

Ahh, I thought that may be the case. So it is largely a defensive wonder.

Anyhow, we don't really have to worry about it. Bismark has it, and it doesn't look like he's going to be much of a threat. If Sisiutil wants to conquer Germany, it shouldn't be a problem because it's right on the coast (and Germany is so small ).

 

[Civman123]

I agree about SoZ.

 

[Killroyan]

The suspense is killing me. Who will get the army boot up his ....? Come on Sisi, tell us.

 

[Sisiutil]

Sorry for the delay, gang. Remember that writing is a big hobby of mine... well, I got BLASTED by this story idea and it wouldn't let me go until I'd written it out.

I hope to play and post the next round in a day or two.

 

[Killroyan]

No problem Sisiutil. Get the story first and if it is a good one then post it here also

 

[Solid]

The problem with this is tha if Sis is anything like me he will tinker with that story, writing end rewriting for weeks, mayby even years before he´s done. My stories never end, they just keep going in my head. And if the story is finished, theres always that last pesky sentence that just don´t fit...

 

[RockTheCazbah87]

Looking forward to it Sis.

 

[iamnleth]

I had the idea that it is only the number of civic changes you do that influences the length of anarchy. One and two changes will give 1 turn and three changes will result in two turns of anarchy. Prbably 5 changes will mean 3 turns, and of course it will follow the changes in game speed but it is still only the # of changes, not the size of empire.
Have I misunderstood the above quoted sentence or am I missing something here ?

Can someone clear this up? I'd really like to know for sure.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

I'm pretty sure game speed, empire size, and difficulty level all affect the length of anarchy.

I exclusively play on Epic.

Back when I played on Monarch, I could do 2 civic changes in 1 turn at the beginning of the game (say slavery + OR). Fast forward to the modern era, and it took me 2 turns to make only 1 civic change, like say free market to state property. 2 civic changes would eat 3 turns.

Now that I have moved up to emperor, it takes at least 2 turns to make a double switch no matter how small or young my empire is.

 

[KMadCandy]

i know game speed affects it, spiritual is worth less on quick. (note: not worthless, it's still my favorite ).

i wasn't sure how empire size affected it but i know it does. i loaded a save and did a WB test, details in spoiler so that someone can pipe in if i missed anything. what i found was that even a drastic increase in the population of my existing cities did not change the number of turns revolutions would take. but doubling the number of my cities did make revolutions take longer, even tho all the new cities were size one. it's not directly a function of civic upkeep costs, since mine were much higher in the "add tons of people" test.

Spoiler HighlyScientificTestingMethods :

originally i had 9 cities, civic upkeep cost was 43 gpt. only 2 cities were size 10+.

i increased the population in each of them by 20. that's a huge jump in population by the UN definition, 180 new votes where before that i had less than 70 (forgot to count). number of turns to change civics did not change. 1 change would take 1 turn, 2 = 2 turns, 3 and 4 both = 3 turns, 5 would take 4 turns. civic upkeep cost with the huge populations was 144 gpt.

then i loaded that save again to have original populations, gave myself settlers and made 8 new cities. my land area percentage on F8 only went up only 0.8% because i put as many as i could in my cultural borders; my UN votes would have gone up by only 8. this time civics changes did take more turns. even 1 change was going to take me 2 turns, 2 and 3 both = 3 turns, 4 = 4 turns, 5 would take 5 turns. civic upkeep cost was 62 gpt.

i tried to check an era change, but the only way to force it was using "add techs by era". that didn't show any change but i'm not sure that cheating way would get recognized like a normal era change does, so i'm not counting that as evidence one way or the other.

oh, forgot to add: test was BtS, Monarch, epic speed, standard map, a game i finished a while back so that WB testing wouldn't spoil the fun . and of course, in typical permanoob fashion, the save i randomly picked i had to wait one turn to change civics because way back then, i'd had a recent revolution .

i swap difficulties all the time and haven't noticed a difference there. very possible that's because i'm spiritual so often, or because i switch levels so often that i don't ever get used to one level in the way that you are, Monkeyfinger. edit: i don't see any guilty-looking lines in the handicapinfo.xml file about Anarchy or Civics, only iCivicUpkeepPercent.

for CivCorpse:

Spoiler :

i didn't mean "big whoop", really really. ummmmm, my internet connection was down when i posted that, so i was really stressed out about having no contact with the forums and was clearly out of my mind. you buying this?

 

[iamnleth]

Interesting, thanks a lot! It seems that anarchy is more of an annoyance in the late ages of the game than earlier, not only because it is longer, but because you are losing much more commerce/production per turn!

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I'm not an expert on the SDK but the following code looks relevant.

Spoiler :

int CvPlayer::getCivicAnarchyLength(CivicTypes* paeNewCivics) const
{
	bool bChange;
	int iAnarchyLength;
	int iI;

	if (getMaxAnarchyTurns() == 0)
	{
		return 0;
	}

	if (isGoldenAge())
	{
		return 0;
	}

	iAnarchyLength = 0;

	bChange = false;

	for (iI = 0; iI < GC.getNumCivicOptionInfos(); iI++)
	{
		if (paeNewCivics[iI] != getCivics((CivicOptionTypes)iI))
		{
			iAnarchyLength += GC.getCivicInfo(paeNewCivics[iI]).getAnarchyLength();

			bChange = true;
		}
	}

	if (bChange)
	{
		iAnarchyLength += GC.getDefineINT("BASE_CIVIC_ANARCHY_LENGTH");

		iAnarchyLength += ((getNumCities() * GC.getWorldInfo(GC.getMapINLINE().getWorldSize()).getNumCitiesAnarchyPercent()) / 100);
	}

	iAnarchyLength = ((iAnarchyLength * std::max(0, (getAnarchyModifier() + 100))) / 100);

	if (iAnarchyLength == 0)
	{
		return 0;
	}

	iAnarchyLength *= GC.getGameSpeedInfo(GC.getGameINLINE().getGameSpeedType()).getAnarchyPercent();
	iAnarchyLength /= 100;

	iAnarchyLength *= GC.getEraInfo(GC.getGameINLINE().getStartEra()).getAnarchyPercent();
	iAnarchyLength /= 100;

	return range(iAnarchyLength, 1, getMaxAnarchyTurns());
}

From what I can tell it seems that the revolution length for civic changes is a function of

• Number of civics to be changed
• Number of cities
• Map size
• Era
• Game speed

Perhaps someone who is more competent in these matters can tell me if I'm right?

 

[KMadCandy]

i posted a question but confused myself even more so never mind *giggle*.

 

[CivCorpse]

for CivCorpse i didn't mean "big whoop", really really. ummmmm, my internet connection was down when i posted that, so i was really stressed out about having no contact with the forums and was clearly out of my mind. you buying this?

I feel starnge...like someone is using a jedi mind trick of diplomacy on me. For some reason i forgive the cat in the corner

 

[iamnleth]

That must be one great story idea!

 

[reif99]

I feel starnge...like someone is using a jedi mind trick of diplomacy on me. For some reason i forgive the cat in the corner

"These are not the droids you're looking for."

 

[Gliese 581]

Thankfully, you usually get a golden age or two just when anarchy length was starting to get bottersome.
I wish spiritual had an additional effect, like instantly +2 years of peace have strengthened our relations modifier instead of +1.

 

[reknaw]

Bumped out of the oblivion that is Page 2.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Was Sis hired to finish the Wheel Of Time story ?