ALC Game #24: Hammurabi/Babylon
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Wow, I hadn't checked this game out in a while, but you've certainly made a good job of pulling ahead since the early game. Keep up the good work! 
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 12: 1796 AD to 1844 AD (26 turns), Part 2
I was getting sick of my land-stack taking a pounding outside of Amorium, so even though several of my units were damaged from Bomber attacks, I decided it was time to take the city. So I was willing to sacrifice a barrage/accuracy Artillery unit, for example...
And then it was time for the Tanks to have their say. Unfortunately the city is on a hill, so each Tank could only attack once rather than utilizing the two attacks the blitz permission normally allows.
I had to throw some semi-obsolete Cavalry into the fray, but I managed to take the city:
In this next screenshot, you can see the effects of these battles on Justinian's power rating.
I hadn't realized until I looked at it how I'd shot up in power. The advantage of that is that I think it's unlikely that Justinian will be able to capitulate to anyone else, because I think they'd be reluctant to go to war with me. However, if anyone can explain the mechanics of that, I (and several others, I suspect) would be grateful.
My next Great Person appeared in Babylon: a Great Merchant. Since I also had a Great Engineer with no real use for him, I decided to follow CivCorpse's advice and start a Golden Age.
Right off the bat, I changed civics, to Police State and Nationalism.
Both would be a relief, as war weariness was beginning to mount in some of my cities. My concern, at this point, was the possibility of a UN resolution to adopt Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, or, worst of all, Environmentalism as a global civic. I think I'd have to defy any of those, and you know how much fun that is. Remember the Lincoln game, with all those defied resolutions while I warred with Montezuma? Yuck.
We should discuss which resolutions to accept and which to defy. I wouldn't object too much to Free Speech--it's not optimal, but I don't think Nationalism holds such an advantage for me that it would be worth the "villainy" unhappiness. Universal Suffrage and especially Environmentalism would be quite different, however. Then again, building wealth (which I haven't started doing yet, despite your suggestions) could deal with Environmentalism's additional corporation costs, while simply raising the culture slider would deal with the loss of PS' war weariness negation. Thoughts?
I sent my water-based stack to capture another Byzantine coastal city:
And because Mehmed has not yet researched Mass Media, the AP is still going strong. Mehmed's the only candidate, and each vote I give him helps keep him at "Pleased". I haven't seen an AP resolution in a while--do they stop if the UN is around?
Meanwhile, once the Tanks in my land-based stack had finished healing in Amorium, I sent them out to attack Trebizond, which is located just a few tiles to its north. This would alleviate a lot of the cultural pressure Amorium was facing.
I left all the other units at home and only moved my Tanks in for the attack. In this battle, the absence of Bombers definitely hurt me. I only had a few Fighters that could attack (and Trebizond, as you can see, is not within range of any Carrier-based air units). Justinian's own Fighters flying intercept missions shot several of my planes down. As a result, the cultural defenses were intact, and almost none of the defenders were injured.
I decided to attack first with a Barrage II Tank. Yes, I left that box unchecked when I installed Solver's unofficial patch. It was bad enough that I lost the ability to follow the Syrian Doctrine as a result of the latest patch; I was in no mood to lose one of my favourite Tank promotions as well.
Several Tank attacks followed, and I lost three of them in the process.
With the city captured, it was time for the Paratroopers to secure it.
As I mentioned in a previous post, this is how I use Paratroopers. The fast-moving Tanks attack and capture the city, then the Paratroopers drop in to defend it (and the often-injured and vulnerable Tanks). You'll notice that Byzantine culture to Trabizond's southeast meant I could not move any regular land units in to the city from Amorium on the same turn. Iconim, to the north, had only a few token defenders, with most of its units loaded back onto Transports and on their way to the next target. So, this was the quickest way to load some defenders into the city.
It's that ability to ignore cultural barriers that make me value Paratroopers. In addition, they're the strongest defensive unit around until Mech Infantry come along. Yes, I could use Marines, but I prefer to give them offensive promotions, otherwise I think their March and Amphibious promotions are going to wasted. So Paratroopers give me a defensive unit with the strength of Marines and the ability to quickly go exactly where I need them.
And the animation is cool. Sometimes I do a paradrop just to see those parachutes open up.
I'm a man of simple pleasures.
Anyway, to step back and look at this from a broader perspective, I'm trying to think of ways I could have made that battle go better, with fewer lost Tanks. All of them involve waiting (for more Fighters, for Bombers, for more units), and I was in a mood to get on with things, whatever the cost, hence the loss of 3 Tanks.
Perhaps a Spy would have come in handy, to put the city into revolt and eliminate the cultural defenses. (Insert sound of palm smacking against forehead here.)
Another turn, another tech.
Now I have Bombers, ho ho ho.
On the last turn of the round, this resolution showed up. In fact, it's the reason I decided to end the round here.
I voted no, but not "Never!". As I mentioned above, I figure I better save my defiance (and the resultant unhappiness) for one of the civic resolutions. As you saw previously, Justinian is pretty popular, so I think this resolution is likely to pass. More on this shortly.
Also in this round, for the first time in recent memory, global warming struck one of my tiles:
Anyone care to explain what causes that, or is it just a random event?
I was able to capture one more city before the resultion ends the war.
This is the home city of Aluminum Inc. It competes with Mining Inc., using coal and contributing Aluminum (which I have in abundance) and some research points, which as CivCorpse pointed out are about to become irrelevant. So it's unlikely that I'll spread it.
Now, here's what Justinian will offer for peace--or, more accurately, a cease fire. But since he's capitulating, it amounts to the same thing:
Basra, you might remember, is the former Arab city on top of a copper tile that I liberated to Justinian many moons ago. So it's a little ironic that I could be getting it back this way.
Now, I haven't accepted peace with him, because I wanted to put that decision before all of you. Should I accept this deal? Or should I keep going? I have Bombers now, and if the UN enforces 10 turns of peace, I'll have a lot of them ready to go by the time I declare war again.
I wouldn't mind capturing some more east coast cities; I only have 2, and it takes forever to move naval units over there from the west coast. Justinian has managed to sink every ship I had over there by spamming Destroyers and throwing them at me non-stop; I think I've lost around 6 Destroyers, 4 Battleships, and 2 Carriers in that area. A 10-turn pause would also give me a chance to move/build a replacement fleet for the east coast.
Justinian does have some far-flung cities on islands, so it would take a while to clean him out completely. Is it worth it, or should I accept his capitulation and move on? I don't think his land or cities are particularly enticing, and he might make a decent vassal.
Anyway, the state-of-the-world post will contain some more information to help us make a more informed decision.
I was getting sick of my land-stack taking a pounding outside of Amorium, so even though several of my units were damaged from Bomber attacks, I decided it was time to take the city. So I was willing to sacrifice a barrage/accuracy Artillery unit, for example...
And then it was time for the Tanks to have their say. Unfortunately the city is on a hill, so each Tank could only attack once rather than utilizing the two attacks the blitz permission normally allows.
I had to throw some semi-obsolete Cavalry into the fray, but I managed to take the city:
In this next screenshot, you can see the effects of these battles on Justinian's power rating.
I hadn't realized until I looked at it how I'd shot up in power. The advantage of that is that I think it's unlikely that Justinian will be able to capitulate to anyone else, because I think they'd be reluctant to go to war with me. However, if anyone can explain the mechanics of that, I (and several others, I suspect) would be grateful.
My next Great Person appeared in Babylon: a Great Merchant. Since I also had a Great Engineer with no real use for him, I decided to follow CivCorpse's advice and start a Golden Age.
Right off the bat, I changed civics, to Police State and Nationalism.
Both would be a relief, as war weariness was beginning to mount in some of my cities. My concern, at this point, was the possibility of a UN resolution to adopt Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, or, worst of all, Environmentalism as a global civic. I think I'd have to defy any of those, and you know how much fun that is. Remember the Lincoln game, with all those defied resolutions while I warred with Montezuma? Yuck.
We should discuss which resolutions to accept and which to defy. I wouldn't object too much to Free Speech--it's not optimal, but I don't think Nationalism holds such an advantage for me that it would be worth the "villainy" unhappiness. Universal Suffrage and especially Environmentalism would be quite different, however. Then again, building wealth (which I haven't started doing yet, despite your suggestions) could deal with Environmentalism's additional corporation costs, while simply raising the culture slider would deal with the loss of PS' war weariness negation. Thoughts?
I sent my water-based stack to capture another Byzantine coastal city:
And because Mehmed has not yet researched Mass Media, the AP is still going strong. Mehmed's the only candidate, and each vote I give him helps keep him at "Pleased". I haven't seen an AP resolution in a while--do they stop if the UN is around?
Meanwhile, once the Tanks in my land-based stack had finished healing in Amorium, I sent them out to attack Trebizond, which is located just a few tiles to its north. This would alleviate a lot of the cultural pressure Amorium was facing.
I left all the other units at home and only moved my Tanks in for the attack. In this battle, the absence of Bombers definitely hurt me. I only had a few Fighters that could attack (and Trebizond, as you can see, is not within range of any Carrier-based air units). Justinian's own Fighters flying intercept missions shot several of my planes down. As a result, the cultural defenses were intact, and almost none of the defenders were injured.
I decided to attack first with a Barrage II Tank. Yes, I left that box unchecked when I installed Solver's unofficial patch. It was bad enough that I lost the ability to follow the Syrian Doctrine as a result of the latest patch; I was in no mood to lose one of my favourite Tank promotions as well.
Several Tank attacks followed, and I lost three of them in the process.
With the city captured, it was time for the Paratroopers to secure it.
As I mentioned in a previous post, this is how I use Paratroopers. The fast-moving Tanks attack and capture the city, then the Paratroopers drop in to defend it (and the often-injured and vulnerable Tanks). You'll notice that Byzantine culture to Trabizond's southeast meant I could not move any regular land units in to the city from Amorium on the same turn. Iconim, to the north, had only a few token defenders, with most of its units loaded back onto Transports and on their way to the next target. So, this was the quickest way to load some defenders into the city.
It's that ability to ignore cultural barriers that make me value Paratroopers. In addition, they're the strongest defensive unit around until Mech Infantry come along. Yes, I could use Marines, but I prefer to give them offensive promotions, otherwise I think their March and Amphibious promotions are going to wasted. So Paratroopers give me a defensive unit with the strength of Marines and the ability to quickly go exactly where I need them.
And the animation is cool. Sometimes I do a paradrop just to see those parachutes open up.
I'm a man of simple pleasures.
Anyway, to step back and look at this from a broader perspective, I'm trying to think of ways I could have made that battle go better, with fewer lost Tanks. All of them involve waiting (for more Fighters, for Bombers, for more units), and I was in a mood to get on with things, whatever the cost, hence the loss of 3 Tanks.
Perhaps a Spy would have come in handy, to put the city into revolt and eliminate the cultural defenses. (Insert sound of palm smacking against forehead here.)
Another turn, another tech.
Now I have Bombers, ho ho ho.
On the last turn of the round, this resolution showed up. In fact, it's the reason I decided to end the round here.
I voted no, but not "Never!". As I mentioned above, I figure I better save my defiance (and the resultant unhappiness) for one of the civic resolutions. As you saw previously, Justinian is pretty popular, so I think this resolution is likely to pass. More on this shortly.
Also in this round, for the first time in recent memory, global warming struck one of my tiles:
Anyone care to explain what causes that, or is it just a random event?
I was able to capture one more city before the resultion ends the war.
This is the home city of Aluminum Inc. It competes with Mining Inc., using coal and contributing Aluminum (which I have in abundance) and some research points, which as CivCorpse pointed out are about to become irrelevant. So it's unlikely that I'll spread it.
Now, here's what Justinian will offer for peace--or, more accurately, a cease fire. But since he's capitulating, it amounts to the same thing:
Basra, you might remember, is the former Arab city on top of a copper tile that I liberated to Justinian many moons ago. So it's a little ironic that I could be getting it back this way.
Now, I haven't accepted peace with him, because I wanted to put that decision before all of you. Should I accept this deal? Or should I keep going? I have Bombers now, and if the UN enforces 10 turns of peace, I'll have a lot of them ready to go by the time I declare war again.
I wouldn't mind capturing some more east coast cities; I only have 2, and it takes forever to move naval units over there from the west coast. Justinian has managed to sink every ship I had over there by spamming Destroyers and throwing them at me non-stop; I think I've lost around 6 Destroyers, 4 Battleships, and 2 Carriers in that area. A 10-turn pause would also give me a chance to move/build a replacement fleet for the east coast.
Justinian does have some far-flung cities on islands, so it would take a while to clean him out completely. Is it worth it, or should I accept his capitulation and move on? I don't think his land or cities are particularly enticing, and he might make a decent vassal.
Anyway, the state-of-the-world post will contain some more information to help us make a more informed decision.
Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
I'd say take the capitulation and move on to stopping Hannibal before he gets close to a cultural victory. I guess it will depend on how close the victory conditions screen says he is.
In terms of civic's defying, I'd say US isn't worth defying, but Environmentalism would be.
In terms of civic's defying, I'd say US isn't worth defying, but Environmentalism would be.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
The State of the World, 1844 AD
Here's what the map now looks like:
On the one hand I wouldn't mind going after Mehmed next just to capture or remove those annoying cities he has on my continent. On the other hand, as you'll see, he's one of my only friends!
Domestic advisor:
You'd think I would be sick of micro-managing modern units, but here I am, building more of them...
Foreign advisor, Relations & Glance:
So as you can see, Mehmed and Pacal are my only friends. Of course, if I'm going for a domination win, I don't expect to make or keep many of those. Too bad Hannibal switched out of his favourite civic, Free Market (for Environmentalism), or he'd probably be please with me too.
Resources:
As I mentioned, I trimmed back on my seafood and mineral deals, and that has allowed me to keep the slider at a respectable level.
Info--trade route income and civics:
Technology:
Since Hannibal decided to go after a cultural win, Darius is now the tech leader. Good thing he doesn't have Rocketry yet, so he can't build nukes. I was kind of hoping our Secretary-General, Hannibal, would see his way through to banning those.
Religion:
I posted this because I started spreading Christianity and Islam again for the income benefits.
Corporations:
As you can see, I focused on spreading my corporations to pretty much all of my cities.
Victory conditions:
I'm nearly there in population (and spreading Sid's Sushi recently to some of my stagnant cities should help), but I've got a ways to go for land area. Which is why I'm thinking it might be good to take all of Justinian's land rather than just 50%.
Power:
Yeah, I don't think anyone's going to go declaring war on me, or taking Justinian in as a vassal.
Demographics:
Top 5 Cities/Wonders:
So there you have it, the latest round. Should Justinian become my little pale-faced buddy, or an even paler-faced corpse? And once he's done in whatever way we decide to have done with him, who's next?
Here's what the map now looks like:
On the one hand I wouldn't mind going after Mehmed next just to capture or remove those annoying cities he has on my continent. On the other hand, as you'll see, he's one of my only friends!
Domestic advisor:
You'd think I would be sick of micro-managing modern units, but here I am, building more of them...
Foreign advisor, Relations & Glance:
So as you can see, Mehmed and Pacal are my only friends. Of course, if I'm going for a domination win, I don't expect to make or keep many of those. Too bad Hannibal switched out of his favourite civic, Free Market (for Environmentalism), or he'd probably be please with me too.
Resources:
As I mentioned, I trimmed back on my seafood and mineral deals, and that has allowed me to keep the slider at a respectable level.
Info--trade route income and civics:
Technology:
Since Hannibal decided to go after a cultural win, Darius is now the tech leader. Good thing he doesn't have Rocketry yet, so he can't build nukes. I was kind of hoping our Secretary-General, Hannibal, would see his way through to banning those.
Religion:
I posted this because I started spreading Christianity and Islam again for the income benefits.
Corporations:
As you can see, I focused on spreading my corporations to pretty much all of my cities.
Victory conditions:
I'm nearly there in population (and spreading Sid's Sushi recently to some of my stagnant cities should help), but I've got a ways to go for land area. Which is why I'm thinking it might be good to take all of Justinian's land rather than just 50%.
Power:
Yeah, I don't think anyone's going to go declaring war on me, or taking Justinian in as a vassal.
Demographics:
Top 5 Cities/Wonders:
So there you have it, the latest round. Should Justinian become my little pale-faced buddy, or an even paler-faced corpse? And once he's done in whatever way we decide to have done with him, who's next?
senor_k
Chieftain
Go for the surprise cultural victory! Slider at 100%!
Joshua368
Warmongering builder
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2008
- Messages
- 3,072
How much culture does he need on Epic speed?
Also in my last game I got a domination win, and I found that other civs would help their friends by vassalizing during my final steam roll, even though I was signifigantly more powerful and advanced than them (they pretty much did me a favor by giving me a new target to strike faster without diplomatic demerits with others). Justinian, Kublai Khan, Brennus... whoo funtime.
But yeah, in my personal experience being high in power doesn't stop the domino effect of wartime, as long as guys like your opponent more than you. Though I use 3.13, so maybe things are different in 3.17.
Also in my last game I got a domination win, and I found that other civs would help their friends by vassalizing during my final steam roll, even though I was signifigantly more powerful and advanced than them (they pretty much did me a favor by giving me a new target to strike faster without diplomatic demerits with others). Justinian, Kublai Khan, Brennus... whoo funtime.
But yeah, in my personal experience being high in power doesn't stop the domino effect of wartime, as long as guys like your opponent more than you. Though I use 3.13, so maybe things are different in 3.17.
Lord Chambers
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2001
- Messages
- 1,004
Two alternatives to Paratroopers are marching your units into enemy territory the old way, which is nice because it invites attacks and leaves fewer units on the city tile than you might normally have to face--good when you're not lowering the cultural defense and have counter units like anti-tank or machine guns with your stack.
But the real winner, and reason I've never used a paratrooper, is that with enough tanks, you can take multiple cities per turn, which will remove the culture enough for you to railroad in defending units. In a situation where it's impossible to open up a railroad line after capturing a city a Paratrooper is a great defender. But, if you will be able to, it's a good way to keep your old Infantry and whatever from molding in cities far away.
I'd rather put 160 hammers into a Tank, and allow it to defend in the rare circumstance they attack a city I just captured, than build a Paratrooper. Tanks work everywhere, on attack and defense. And since they get built during the domination swath, it's better to have too many than too few even if Paratroopers make your defense of new cities is more efficient, in my opinion.
Given Sisutil's hammer situation, he won't have too few of anything.
But the real winner, and reason I've never used a paratrooper, is that with enough tanks, you can take multiple cities per turn, which will remove the culture enough for you to railroad in defending units. In a situation where it's impossible to open up a railroad line after capturing a city a Paratrooper is a great defender. But, if you will be able to, it's a good way to keep your old Infantry and whatever from molding in cities far away.
I'd rather put 160 hammers into a Tank, and allow it to defend in the rare circumstance they attack a city I just captured, than build a Paratrooper. Tanks work everywhere, on attack and defense. And since they get built during the domination swath, it's better to have too many than too few even if Paratroopers make your defense of new cities is more efficient, in my opinion.
Given Sisutil's hammer situation, he won't have too few of anything.
sophie
Break My Heart
I like how a good portion of the ALC posts are either you or someone else bemoaning how screwed you are or how you're way behind, and then you go to war. In demographics you go from middle or bottom of the pack to number 1 in everything except usually popularity (but what do the plebs know, eh?), and you just proceed to steamroll over everything.
I suppose if I've learned anything from these couple months of reading these forums, is that the AI can out-tech you, it can out-compete you in land, and it can out-produce you, but it cannot wage a war to save it's life, that's the one advantage the human will always have over the AI, and it should be taken advantage of as much as possible.
I suppose land truly is power.
I suppose if I've learned anything from these couple months of reading these forums, is that the AI can out-tech you, it can out-compete you in land, and it can out-produce you, but it cannot wage a war to save it's life, that's the one advantage the human will always have over the AI, and it should be taken advantage of as much as possible.
I suppose land truly is power.
azzaman333
meh
My gut feeling is that making Justinian your bit... err... vassal... will be more beneficial than killing him, thanks to the resolution that is most likely about to make you stop killing him.
Global Warming is a major PITA since the last patch.
The only way to get rid of it is to build recycling centers everywhere (and hope the AI does the same!!) You're lucky to only lose one tile in this game so far.You can always spread it to the AI -- especially to civs that already have Aluminum!
Just don't spread it to Hannibal, because it makes Creative Constructions much more powerful.Speaking of Hannibal...I think your next target should be Carthage. He's *very* close to a Cultural win, plus he has a few useful wonders (Versailles, Rock & Roll), plus he just deleted half his army so he should be a pushover.
Take Justin's capitulation, since the war will likely end next turn anyway. And don't worry about Mehmed's crappy pop-2 cities, with Sid's Sushi you'll flip them in no time.
Leventis
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2006
- Messages
- 262
75,000
. It's not gonna happen this game, but keep an eye on Hannibal's culture cities -- he already has 3 cities over 35,000 .
Dresden
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,081
Are you using Unofficial Patch 0.19? There was a problem in that version where AI Bombers would get scared off and never attack if there was a chance of being intercepted; I don't recall if SAMs could cause the aberrant behavior or just intercepting Fighters, but if you use that version, that might be the explanation. That bug was the primary motivation behind the even less official 0.19.1 release
Building pollution. Every forge, factory, airport, drydock, industrial park, and ironworks (i.e. any building with inherent
) contributes to the global pollution pool. Once that pool reaches a certain level, it can trigger Global Warming. Given the amount of forest/jungle left on your map, a ballpark estimate would be that you have a 15-20% chance of GW striking each turn. If it hits, it should only hit a single tile (assuming nobody gets frisky with nukes) and the tile picked is totally random.Note that this is nearly irreversible; Recycling Centers have zero effect on Global Warming. Once you're over the pollution limit, nothing short of razing cities that contain the offending buildings will get you back under.
The UN doesn't stop them, but often in the late game there just simply aren't any applicable resolutions. Mehmed's not even running the AP religion anymore so he might not actually be able to propose anything.
On a somewhat-related note, I see Isabella is displaying the Theocracy-without-religion oddity that has cropped up recently. Any chance you have a save from just before she was created? Several people have posted about this bug but nobody ever has a save to help track it down...
Finally, Hannibal is right now about 90 turns from Cultural Victory (based on estimating city culture rates by looking at the F8 readout on consecutive turns.) That's probably more than enough time for you to win, however his #3 city doesn't have Creative Constructions yet and might still have other cultural buildings available including cathedrals (it has 3 religions) and even Hollywood since he has Mass Media so that number may drop significantly. Civ Jewellers is still available too although if he pops an artist he'd probably culture-bomb with it instead which also shortens the time. So you definitely want to keep a close eye on this and might have to take out one of those cities.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
I'll have to double-check.Are you using Unofficial Patch 0.19? There was a problem in that version where AI Bombers would get scared off and never attack if there was a chance of being intercepted; I don't recall if SAMs could cause the aberrant behavior or just intercepting Fighters, but if you use that version, that might be the explanation. That bug was the primary motivation behind the even less official 0.19.1 release
The save from the end of the round before the round she appeared (got that?) would be the closest I've got. She appeared in round 10, so that would be the save from round 9.
I could always wait 10 turns and resume killing him later. However, I'm beginning to hear people making noise that Hannibal should be next on my list. And he certainly has many juicy wonders built that would be nice to acquire. So maybe it is indeed time to end things with Justinian--who has enough land left to be a decent vassal--and go after someone else, probably Hannibal.
I would say take Justinian as a vasal. With his cities he is still a valuable allie. You can propably get satelites from him as well as some resources and then you can concentrate on Hannibal. Come on, he has the 4 top cities in the world with so many wonders, that that alone justifies him to be the first next target. Also because cultural victory is getting closer.
About the cities of Mehmed, let him pay for the maintenance of his size 2 cities. Who cares about that. On the other hand, if you take on Mehmed, you might be able to pull Hannibal into that war too. Let them have a go at each other and then take over that whole continent starting with Pacal who will give you a good beach head and the city with the golden shrine (that thing will bring in something like 50-60 gold per turn???).
My advice, check if you can incite a war between Mehmed and Hannibal. If that is the case invade Pacal on one side and backstab Hannibal on the other side to prevent his cultural victory. The crusade against Pacal should last what......4 turns or something? If that is not possible then just take on Hannibal.
About the cities of Mehmed, let him pay for the maintenance of his size 2 cities. Who cares about that. On the other hand, if you take on Mehmed, you might be able to pull Hannibal into that war too. Let them have a go at each other and then take over that whole continent starting with Pacal who will give you a good beach head and the city with the golden shrine (that thing will bring in something like 50-60 gold per turn???).
My advice, check if you can incite a war between Mehmed and Hannibal. If that is the case invade Pacal on one side and backstab Hannibal on the other side to prevent his cultural victory. The crusade against Pacal should last what......4 turns or something? If that is not possible then just take on Hannibal.
Peachrocks
Too Fast For Blazing
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2007
- Messages
- 127
Yes leave Justinian, go after Hannibal, soon enough you'll be winning UN votes with your population alone so nobody can control you. Love your work with the paratroopers too, up til now I didn't find much of a use for them.
I'm wondering what's up with the global warming too, in my latest Incans/Ethopians in space adventure (now on Emperor wee, ty Sisiutil for your help, you are a huge reason why I no longer fiddle about on Noble ahha) I got some global warming even though no one except for me had fission and therefore couldnt even build nuclear power plants and I certainly didnt have any and I hate nukes.
I'm wondering what's up with the global warming too, in my latest Incans/Ethopians in space adventure (now on Emperor wee, ty Sisiutil for your help, you are a huge reason why I no longer fiddle about on Noble ahha) I got some global warming even though no one except for me had fission and therefore couldnt even build nuclear power plants and I certainly didnt have any and I hate nukes.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
I'd be careful of Hannibal, and would consider attacking him next. You've still got time, though. And besides, won't the other AI's try to attack him if he gets too close to victory?
LiberiGlacialis
To the stars!
If they like him too much, they might not. Still, he's going to be the biggest threat for an upset defeat by the looks of things. Kill off his high-culture cities ASAP, and pick up the rest for your own domination win.
Byzintine? It's your call, but I think capitulation would be better in this case if you turn your guns to Hannibal soon
Byzintine? It's your call, but I think capitulation would be better in this case if you turn your guns to Hannibal soon
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
If you think the UN's going to stop the war, capitulate Justinian now.
At that point, you'll have a lot of units over in the west of your empire, so station your fighters/bombers in Justinian's cities (Hannibal's easily within range from there), load the transports and press on to Carthage while building another eastern stack to take over Pacal. You can use bombers when attacking Pacal too, by stationing them in Mehmed's island cities.
Lastly, civics. You're still in a GA which is good as you'll benefit from swapping to vassalage/theocracy. This puts a stock unit on 9XP, one fight away from a promotion, and means your boats will start on 10XP (with a drydock). Extra naval power and the ability to promote/heal will give the remaining wars a nice little boost. Vassalage also has the nice benefit of being Mehmed's favourite civic and he's still running it himself so you'll get a nice relations boost with him to offset all the negatives for declaring on his friends.
They're both expensive civics, but you're organized which means they're actually not. Time to leverage the trait rather than sticking to cheap ones like nationhood and FR (especially now the research bonus is redundant).
With police state/jails/Rushmore, you don't need to worry about WW and since you're basically done with research, ramp the slider to counter the effects of defying if the UN puts up any resolutions you don't like. This may have the added bonus of helping you grab the last few tiles for domination a turn or two faster.
At that point, you'll have a lot of units over in the west of your empire, so station your fighters/bombers in Justinian's cities (Hannibal's easily within range from there), load the transports and press on to Carthage while building another eastern stack to take over Pacal. You can use bombers when attacking Pacal too, by stationing them in Mehmed's island cities.
Lastly, civics. You're still in a GA which is good as you'll benefit from swapping to vassalage/theocracy. This puts a stock unit on 9XP, one fight away from a promotion, and means your boats will start on 10XP (with a drydock). Extra naval power and the ability to promote/heal will give the remaining wars a nice little boost. Vassalage also has the nice benefit of being Mehmed's favourite civic and he's still running it himself so you'll get a nice relations boost with him to offset all the negatives for declaring on his friends.
They're both expensive civics, but you're organized which means they're actually not. Time to leverage the trait rather than sticking to cheap ones like nationhood and FR (especially now the research bonus is redundant).
With police state/jails/Rushmore, you don't need to worry about WW and since you're basically done with research, ramp the slider to counter the effects of defying if the UN puts up any resolutions you don't like. This may have the added bonus of helping you grab the last few tiles for domination a turn or two faster.
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