ALC Game #25: Celts/Boudica

[r_rolo1]

I am with whakamole except that IMHO you should get a worker or a work boat after the first work boat

And settle in place... I can't see much of possible reasons to move.

P.S there is a void in the trees 2 E of the settler... hummmmmm

 

[carl corey]

Settle in place, Fishing->Mining->BW, warrior->workboat->worker->workboat->settler seems like a pretty straightforward way to start. The only question is whether the first warrior will be out before Fishing is done.

 

[hal08]

I would think that "no goodie huts" hurts the AI since they are most likely to get the lion's share of them.

 

[vicawoo]

Build a worker until you get fishing. Trying to grow to size 2 on a 2 food tile with no early reward (aka a warrior) is stupid.

 

[oyzar]

I know it's gamey, but it also crossed my mind that if someone's vetted the starting positions to be 'a good map for Boudica,' Sis probably isn't isolated. Still, I wouldn't really expect you to comment on that, Oyzar...

I'd certainly say that if any neighbours have Mysticism, Stone, or Industrious, we should skip it and hope they build it for us. &Even if that's not the case, Boudica wasn't made to build.

I said he either have good city spots or isn't isolated(or both)... Any game where that is not true is obviously not winnable...

 

[DMOC]

I'm not sure why there's no technology brokering, but anyway, just settle in place and see what the map provides you.

 

[Gliese 581]

I would settle in place.
With landlocked food resource: Mining->Bw, otherwise fishing first.
With land food resource: Worker first, without, scout and grow to size 2 synchronized, wb wb worker or wb worker wb.
I wish you would start moving the scout/warrior before discussions so we have all the relevant turn 1 info.

 

[Sisiutil]

I'll be interested to see how the "No Technology Brokering" works out. I would have voted against it. I'm not a fan of that option in general, and for this game in particular, I worry that it may backfire on you.

In any game, it just seems strange to me. Why would you disable such a critical part of the game? There's no "no building workers" option. There's no "no resource trading" option. There's no "no boats" option. Why should there be an option for no technology trading? Anyway ...

For this game, it seems like you've removed one of the key benefits of an aggressive war posture. Lots of wars can hurt your economy in all kinds of ways -- troop upkeep, supply costs, over-expansion, war weariness, delayed infrastructure building, diplomatic troubles, etc. One way to remedy that is to extract technologies as part of a peace treaty. If you don't allow yourself that luxury, you might be screwed.

We'll see ...

I think you're confusing "No Technology Brokering" with "No Technology Trading". The former option, which is the one I've chosen, still allows you to trade technologies. The restriction is that you can't trade away a technology which you yourself did not research (same goes for the AI). So I can still demand techs from the AI for peace. I've found in my off-line games that it slows the pace of tech advancement a little. It also evens out the playing field with the AI a bit, since the AI seems more reluctant, on average, to trade techs in the first place. It also does away with the tactic of selling a tech the AI has almost finished researching for a chunk of gold; once they get within a handful of turns of completing a tech, they won't trade anything for it, apparently preferring to retain the benefit of being able to trade it.

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

I think you're confusing "No Technology Brokering" with "No Technology Trading".

Oh! Yeah, you're right. I didn't realize that's how it works. That sounds better.

 

[marstinson]

Not a bad start. Only three tiles where metal can pop. I've never had metal pop under my starting position, but I assuming it's possible. Fractals can be interesting maps, especially if you get stuck on a big island or small continent with a psycho.

I don't know about turning off the goody huts, though. The AI civs are going to start with at least one, probably a couple of Scouts. So at best you're only going to remove their 2:1 advantage in popping huts. But on the other hand, that's gold and techs you're not going to get. But yours is the hand on the tiller, Cap'n. The rest of us are just along for the ride.

Settle in place.

Fishing -> Mining -> BW -> IW (I'm not holding my breath on popping Copper with only two or three tiles that can do it and no goody huts means slower early expansion in case there's no metal in the BFC)

'Henge -> WB (when Fishing finishes) -> Worker -> Finish 'Henge -> Warrior or GW (depending on metal popping) -> WB (Settler if no metal)

Since you're not playing with Aggressive AI, you can probably afford to put off the defending unit for a little bit. And if the AI beats you to 'Henge, at least you'll have a little gold for deficits. If the scout turns up a psycho, move the Warrior to the front of the queue and forget I said anything.

 

[Killroyan]

Lol, now this is different from the normal 2 pages in an ALC. No talking about where to move the scout/warrior but discussing the build/tech order to the max.

Warrior->WB->worker->chop workboat->Henge sounds good.

 

[Scarredroman]

Scout move INE to see what is revealed, but settling in place will ex[amd what Sisiutil can see anyway.

A speedy exploation of the map is called for.So build a scout. Then build a couple of workboats from fishing and then mining and bronzeworking. That silver needs a road , so The Wheel comes next. I'd be ery tempted to do sailing and bild a galley for costal exploration.

Whip the first worker and here enough forests to chop a second worker and build Stonehenge andthe Great Wall-though that would require a beeline to Alphabet to have the spies to take advantage of the Great Spy the Great Wall will generate. Stealing those early worker/religious techs appeals. I'd go to masonry for the fifth tech. Let's get those happy duns. You might even get the Pyramids, though I'd suspect you were really Obsolete in disguise.

Not having copper close by would be a major setback, but a couple of settlers would alieviate that and there ought to be some copper not too far away that can be settled. The starting point at the foot of the world intimates a move of capital as Boudica expands north. An early, as possible, start on building the rush force would be ideal.

 

[CivSetä]

Good start, settle in place.

Maybe this is time to go wonder-crazy, because you have plenty of forests to chop! I suggest building both Stonehenge and Oracle. It is definitely possible even on immortal with such a good start!

1) Build: warrior (to explore and fogbust; while growing to size 2) - worker (you want chop and get silver online) - Stohenge (must be built before settler or it's too risky) - warrior (for 2nd city) - settler - Oracle (pre-chop).

2) And techs: BW (for chopping) - fishing - polytheism - priesthood - wheel+pottery (OR writing)
Seafood and silver will provide enough commerce to get priesthood fast enough, then wheel+pottery to get MC (or writing to get Col/Aest/Alpha/Monarchy) as free tech. Or if there is not enough time, just get IW for UU.

 

[kazapp]

Okay, lots of advice, some conflicting.

Let's just reiterate what Sisiutil already knows

Starting locations are special.
While there is a risk you lose out on a resource just outside of your BFC, chances are much greater you lose out on a resource by moving. As somebody said above, there could be two hidden resources, one on either side of your current position. Move, and you might lose one of them without gaining something in return.

The RNG stacks things against making this gamble. Settle in place.

Growth is everything early on.
Unless you find food by settling, go Fishing first. Mining can definitely wait.

If you find two grains, Agriculture is a better bet than Fishing.
If you find pigs OTOH, I'd take the seafood first. Cows or Sheep, not even a contest. By researching Animal Handling, you're effectively saying at Immortal level: "I'm not doing Bronze Working until after Archery" and this is unacceptable with such a forested start.

Your start is heavily forested, you need Bronze Working a.s.a.p; but you need to ensure you can work one or two improved food tiles while researching it.

Early speed-research is a gambit best abandoned at high levels.
Yes, the Silver is nice, but not our most valuable tile. Food is more important.

Once your capital grows to size 3, yes, it would be very nice if a Worker had completed a silver mine the turn before...

Stonehenge is a key asset for Boudica.
By itself, I agree a well-executed Axe Rush is superior to Stonehenge.

But getting +1 happy is huge for a big portion of the game!

Getting +1 +1 in every city for free is a bargain for the cost of Stonehenge. And you (eventually) get a Great Prophet too... It would be criminal to neglect this opportunity.

But should you build it straight away? No. That would indeed make the cost far too high.

Instead, Stonehenge needs to be chopped. So build a Work Boat and a Worker, explore while researching Bronze Working after a minimum of worker techs, then chop the 'Henge.

If somebody builds it even faster than that, well, then you can always take it from their cold, dead hands.

You should not sacrifice everything to get the SH. But you should definitely not give up on it either. You have a good shot at getting it without having to sacrifice everything else, and this is the best way.

By chopping it, the cost stops at, what, a few Axes. By slow-building it, you sacrifice lots of growth. By not going after it at all, you give up one of the few really good things about your chosen leader.

Then you can chop the rest for an Axe Rush if that's what the map tells you to. Personally, I get the best results from chopping a 2nd, 3rd and 4th Worker (minus any stolen Worker) and then a Settler (lumber supply allowing).


Zapp

PS. And move the Scout out of the BFC. Didn't Corpse establish 1NW is always best?

 

[Munch]

Another reason to attempt to build Stonehenge is that if you fail, you will at least have some bonus gold that you'd be hungry for considering that there are no tribal villages. Of course succeeding in building Stonehenge is a far better situation, as has been mentioned several times. If you do succeed I think that large scale whipping will be in order due to the silly amount of happiness you'll have spare.

PS. Kazapp makes a good argument for chopping 'henge!

 

[oynaz]

I bet there is a military resource in one of the two forestless squares. I think setting in place is the best option.

 

[oyzar]

The point of stonehenge is that it will be built in the first 30-40 turns by the AI... He can't build it unless he built it before the first settler and as such the cost is way too high...

 

[Calder]

Boudica's traits won't advantage her economiclly as some of the A1 you'll encounter, and especially as this is played on Immortal, you'll need all the commerce you can muster, even if its only 1 extra tile, which you gain settling 1W. Naturally before deciding to settle 1W the warrior should move SE first to to see if you're going to miss out on any goodies.
The extra happy caps from Monuments and the Silver gives you an early growth advantage aided by the crabs, so naturally Fishing first followed by Mining and Bronze. If you're lucky enough to have copper nearby I would sneak pottery in before going for Iron Working and The Wheel. Gallic Warriors only require copper or iron. Having a granary and early cottages will help you advance quickly and put you in a good position to whip out an army of gallic warriors.

 

[DrJambo]

Playing with two extra civs BUT no 'low sea level'! Well. That's definitely stacking in favour of the human and an early rush. AND you're Boudica!

Without low sea level the two extra civs will mean all civs will be crammed in much closer! This will effectively negate many of the AI's bonuses at Immortal level when it comes to early REX'ing, and we all know how bad the AI is at declaring war when there's no land left in which to expand peacefully. If you're adding extra civs, which I fully endorse by the way, you simply have to lower the sea level.

Best,

 

[Gliese 581]

Some more thoughts..

As a standard sized medium sea level map with 9 players, it's going to get crowded. This favours an axe rush/expansion even more than normally as oyzar is correct in the fact that you need to build SH before your first settler on immortal.

A single irrigated corn in the BFC would make agriculture and worker a better choice than going for fishing (same food surplus from the corn as from both fishes). I'm in fact not too happy about the fish start, on such a crowded map it's slow.
What could prove to be very useful in the early game is the silver. It could allow getting IW early for a potential axe+gw rush which would increase effectiveness.
GWs can also potentially be fast reinforcers if there's enough hills to join up with the SOD as it moves from one city to the next.