ALC Game #9: Incas/Huayna Capac

[voek]

Thirdly, if you're really concerned about Nappy being overtaken in population due to lacking biology, why not declare a phony war on him yourself, then gift it to him as part of a peace deal when he's willing to talk to you again. It's a bit gamey, but would get the job done without upsetting any of your friends. You'd just have to be prepared to bribe Freddy/Cyrus out of war if they take it upon themselves to dogpile him on your behalf.

Excellent idea if I may say

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

I could switch right now and take the overflow with me. Should I just bee-line to the UN, via Electricity -> Radio -> Mass Media?

Yes, you should. That's my only quibble with the last round. Assuming you go for a diplomatic win, researching Communism and Railroad isn't really going to gain you anything. You don't really need the extra production, and you shouldn't have time to take much advantage of it anyway. Just get it over with and put these guys out of their misery. You're in the home stretch now.

As far as switching to Universal Suffrage, you could probably do it without losing Cyrus (he would drop to +9 which is 2 more than the minimum value you need), but the more important point is that you really don't need to make that switch. At this point, only four things should be on your radar: research Electricity, research Radio, research Mass Media, build the UN. Universal Suffrage isn't going to help significantly with any of those. If Frederick overtakes Napoleon, then you almost definitely want to be in Representation, since you'll probably need every point you can find to swing Cyrus over to your side.

Patagonia's idea of gifting Biology for peace is brilliant. Terribly risky but brilliantly devious at the same time. Don't necessarily take that as an endorsement. I think it could easily backfire, and it probably isn't necessary, but it's certainly a fine example of some out of the box thinking.

Let's do some quick back of the envelope calculations on how the vote might go. You have 40% right now, which if you build lots of farms and focus on growth (set all your new Egyptian cities to emphasize food) should easily grow to 45% before the vote. It might go higher, but 45% is certainly within reach. Napoleon has 20%. That leaves 40% at the moment distributed between Frederick, Cyrus, and Washington. Mostly Frederick and Cyrus.

Since Washington is nearly irrelevant, the bad news is that means Frederick and Cyrus are probably very, very close to Napoleon's 20%. The good news is that you're only 22% away from victory. Some farm-fueled growth and either one of Frederick or Cyrus should be enough to get you the win, especially if Washington also throws a few votes your way.

So what's the conclusion?

• hurry up and win before Napoleon falls behind!
• build farms in any city where you can afford to do so. That means any city that isn't a top science or production city. At this point you can afford to farm over some cottages. Prioritize the smaller cities, because they'll grow faster.
• maintain excellent relations with Frederick and Cyrus, especially Cyrus if we assume that Frederick is #3 in population. Check the Cyrus -> Frederick attitude to see if there's anything you can do to sour their relationship. Maybe you can bribe Cyrus to switch religions or civics. Consider some resource or technology gifts to Cyrus if it's a close call.
• don't neglect Washington. His votes could make the difference, and he's so backward that you can gift him almost anything without risk (though keep Biology if possible to prevent him from trading it to the others).

edit: 1 additional point re: Washington -- don't build up culture to pressure Seattle. You don't need it, and the close borders can only hurt you. Don't avoid culture in the nearby cities. Whatever happens naturally happens, but don't go out of your way to try to steal it from him. It's a pointless city.

 

[LosBlack]

Dr. EJ is right: at this point, quicker is better for a diplomatic victory. as long as you keep tabs on the victory condtions (and Nappy's pop), there's no reason why you can't grow as much pop as possible while working toward the U.N... if you notice one of the other 2 take over 2nd place in pop, you can do something about it (you probably already have an idea or 2 on how to cross that bridge).

any way you can tweak GPP to get somebody to speed you along to Mass Media?

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

any way you can tweak GPP to get somebody to speed you along to Mass Media?

Interesting idea. An artist would probably be the most effective if one can be generated, since both Radio and Mass Media are two of the most preferred technologies for artists. Only Literature, Drama, Music, Polytheism, and Monarchy have higher priority, and we obviously know those already. I usually find that this late in the game with expensive technologies and a strong research economy, lightbulbing often saves me only 1 or 2 turns, so it's probably not a huge priority.

 

[Sisiutil]

Interesting idea. An artist would probably be the most effective if one can be generated, since both Radio and Mass Media are two of the most preferred technologies for artists. Only Literature, Drama, Music, Polytheism, and Monarchy have higher priority, and we obviously know those already. I usually find that this late in the game with expensive technologies and a strong research economy, lightbulbing often saves me only 1 or 2 turns, so it's probably not a huge priority.

It's worth a shot though; the faster I go, the more likely Napoleon is to hang on to 2nd place. I'll check to see which city is closest to generating a GP and see about generating a GA. It's probably either Machu Picchu or Cuzco. With the former, as it's my science city, I have to balance out switching all its scientists to artists with how that would affect research.

Okay, a bee-line to the UN it is, preceeded by a civics change to Emancipation and State Property. I'll also focus on tile improvements that increase food output to grow the population--same thing for buildings (granaries and lighthouses are priorities, as are health increasers like harbours and aqueducts). Emancipation may force Freddy to divert research from Biology; Vasut, good catch regarding Cyrus and Biology--you must be correct, he must have it now.

By the way, I defend the decision to research Communism for SP--remember that my workshops and watermills will all contribute +1 food after the civics change. And if I get Scotland Yard built and Spies soon, the extra intelligence may help get the win. Heck, I could even sabaotage farms, risky though it would be.

EDIT: I just saw the news that the Warlords patch is almost ready for release! What perfect timing. Once this game is complete, I'll scrounge up the funds to buy Warlords, and the next ALC will use it--the patched version, of course. Frankly, I'm starting to mop up, more often than not, in my off-line Monarch games now--even without playing as a Financial leader. So I'm hoping the new gameplay elements in the expansion (and the better balance provided by the patch) will pose a challenge. Otherwise, we'll be heading for Emperor before too long!

 

[LosBlack]

i'll be sad to see the ALC move to Warlords..it just won't be the same watching a game with a leader and units i've never seen. (i'll probably end up reading the Warlords threads anyways..)

thanks again for the long run of threads on Vanilla. a Diplomatic win on Monarch seems a fitting end to this chapter of the ALC.

 

[Eggolas]

Frankly, I'm starting to mop up, more often than not, in my off-line Monarch games now--even without playing as a Financial leader. So I'm hoping the new gameplay elements in the expansion (and the better balance provided by the patch) will pose a challenge. Otherwise, we'll be heading for Emperor before too long!

Warlords in nice, but I'm finding Monarch/Normal too easy if I manage to get The Great Wall built. The patch might help with the GPP cut 50%, but the real power is the ability to negate barbarian destruction of units and improvements resulting in turn advantage and hammer production preservation. Also the nerfing of the CS slingshot will definitely have a rebalancing effect, although metal casting is still available.

Nice games though. I'm learning a little more about diplomatic wins in this one.

 

[wioneo]

In the few games which I built the Great Wall, I seemed to do worse... but that's probably just a coincidence.

 

[flamingzaroc121]

yeha, use good ol ben for the UN because the statue is to close to being done.

 

[Alan Bradely]

I'll vote for the phony war idea, as it seems the safest way to keep Nappy up without getting penalties for the others.

 

[voek]

Patagonia's idea of gifting Biology for peace is brilliant. Terribly risky but brilliantly devious at the same time. Don't necessarily take that as an endorsement. I think it could easily backfire, and it probably isn't necessary, but it's certainly a fine example of some out of the box thinking.

No credit for me?

 

[FeedBack]

Greetings, guys.
Phew! After two weeks of really intensive reading, I finally made it! I read all of the previous ALC games and I'd like to thank all you guys. I'm just a wannabe noble player (I still lose too much on noble, so sometimes I move back to Warlord), but with a little more time to play, I may get to at least Prince soon.
Again, I think I'll be giving almost no good opinions (if any) to you masteers, but I'll keep lurking.

Anyway, as I think this ALC is a matter of time, I'll just cast a vote on the next ALC... I don't have warlords yet, but I read some posts saying that some leaders changed. If it's true, maybe tha ALC should stick a little more with Vanilla to cover the standard ones and then move to the expansion.
BUT, nothing keeps Sisiutil from moving to Warlords to taste the new flavour and then, anytime, do another ALC with a Vanilla leader.

Oh, let me stop! I talk too much for a newbie!

 

[cabert]

No credit for me?

I credit you the pain i'm having with my health article

 

[cabert]

sorry double post
I will use this to say I'm glad to see some thoughts put into a diplomatic win!

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

No credit for me?

Actually you deserve credit for making me notice his idea, because I had skimmed past it until I saw your post.

 

[aelf]

Sisiutil, are you going to patch your Warlords immediately? If you are, take note of the changes to AI that are supposed to make the game significantly harder.

 

[patagonia]

Sisiutil, are you going to patch your Warlords immediately? If you are, take note of the changes to AI that are supposed to make the game significantly harder.

Also (maybe not so much for the ALC, but in general) take note of the trait changes that make Augustus Caesar (cre/org) far and away the most powerful leader in the game. Could be worth testing out the new AI with his Romans first.

 

[aelf]

Also (maybe not so much for the ALC, but in general) take note of the trait changes that make Augustus Caesar (cre/org) far and away the most powerful leader in the game. Could be worth testing out the new AI with his Romans first.

No! No Romans! Grrr...

Seriously, why make the game too easy? Anyway, the next on the list for ALC is India. Will it be Gandhi or Asoka?

 

[carl corey]

aelf: Not sure. Sisiutil is playing only with the leaders with which he hasn't won before. I think everyone played Gandhi at least once.

 

[patagonia]

No! No Romans! Grrr...

Seriously, why make the game too easy? Anyway, the next on the list for ALC is India. Will it be Gandhi or Asoka?

I meant more playing with them offline to see how much tougher the new AI is before firing up another ALC with the new and improved version. Seriously though, giving Augustus cheap libraries and factories on top of everything else...how did they think that was going to improve balance? I guess as Rome you don't need to research beyond CoL anyway so they're of limited value, but still...

*Apologies for this going waaaaay off-topic now*