Alexander the Great Scenario: Help!

[Kryten]

Actually, calgacus is right......I do need help!

This project has been plagued:-
* First there was the wait for the new PTW editor features...
* Then, due to personal reasons, Exansanguination (the team leader) led an exodus to CDG (who have been very nice to us)....
*Due to real life commitments Exsanguination then had to leave the project altogether....
* Without his leadership, I got diverted by the 'multi-figure' project...
* Realn tried to revitalise us by starting a new website....which, to be honest, meant yet another place to visit each day....
* Then I got diverted (yet again!) by making some more player requested units (which I do NOT regret....if someone wants help, then I will always try).
But I will admit that all this has delayed me.

If this sounds like an excuse, then you are right.....it is.

Many people have contributed and helped this project over the past year, and I feel that I have let you all down.

But I have NOT given up!
However, I do admit, I need

Basically, I need people to help me put all the finished bits & pieces together into a workable scenario.
I don't care at the moment whether it is 'historically correct' or 'visually appealing'....I just need something that I can TINKER with.
(Because, let's be honest, it is much easier to change and adapt something that already exists than it is to create something from scratch.
And that is all I am. Someone who can tinker with the existing rules or animations....not a creator)

Please give me a day or two to bring all the various bits together, and....with you're help....I am sure that we can bring this monster to a completion.
ANY help would be appreciated....text files/civilopeadia pictures/historical accuracy....anything.

In the mean time, here are some of the graphics I have been working on....

Note that the Scythian nomads, for obvious reasons, will not have the technology to build walls.

The idea is to not have 'strategic resources' as such, but 'statraps & provinces' instead.
The reason? Well, I have absolutely know idea where the Bactrians got their copper & tin from to make bronze helmets & armour, nor where they got their iron for their weapons, or where they got their horses from.....so these 'regional province names' will replace strategic resources.
So to build "Bactrian Horsemen", you must control "Bactria".

 

[Kryten]

And here is a picture of Exsanguinations’s original map, which I am altering in order to make ‘economic isolation’ possible....

 

[mrtn]

This is a idea I posted in the "Suggesting EXISTING bla bla"-thread, to use resources with negative impact to simulate swamps and such. This would be nice for the Nile Delta, for example, which in your preview has plains. Not suitable, IMO. This is a modded swamp resource I made.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Kryten, I must admit you never cease to amaze Those city graphics are wonderful. But I am a bit confused to the American settler wagons in the Scythian camps but I don't see any need to change them as what you have them there are perfect. Hopefully this project can start to get finished sometime soon.

PS: Did you get your avatar from that TV show, I think its Red Dwarf?

 

[Kryten]

To show everyone the tasks that need to be done in order to make the scenario work, and what has been achieved so far, I have created this chart.
If you see something that you would like to help with, then please feel free.

(Bold items are completed, ready for use)

MAP (created by Exsanguination)
-----------------------------------------
Terrain, Coastline, Rivers
(I’m adding a new terrain type, 'Dirt Tracks', which will require Civilopeadia pictures & text)

REGIONAL RESOURCES
---------------------------------
Graphics, Purpose, Location
(Civilopeadia pictures & text required)

CITIES
---------
Graphics, Ownership, Buildings, Size, Wonders, Roads, Irrigation, Mines, Victory Points, Location

CIVILIZATIONS
----------------------
Leaderheads (by Piernik), Governments, Diplomacy, Allowed Tech/Events, Allowed Units, Starting Techs, Colours
(Civilopeadia pictures & text required)

TECH/EVENTS
--------------------
Names, Costs, Benefits (i.e. buildings/wonders/units/special abilities), Position on the Tech Tree , graphics.
(Civilopeadia pictures & text required)

UNITS
---------
Animations (!), Stats, Costs, Abilities, Upgrade Paths, Required Resources, Sounds, Ownership, Starting Locations and Numbers
(Civilopeadia pictures & text required)

GAME TEXT & MESSAGES
-------------------------------------
Additions to the Civ3 PTW diplomacy, labels and script text files will be required.

PRE-START SET-UP
-------------------------
In order to arrange who is at war with who, and to give Alexander at least the knowledge of where Egypt, Phoenicia, Ionia, Sparta and Cyprus are, it will be necessary to perform certain tasks before the scenario’s first turn (such as sailing a ‘super unit’ with unlimited movement and the radar ability around the whole of the Mediterranean coastline, then disbanding it, as well as some limited map exchanges....at least between the Hellenistic nations).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[LouLong]

Eeer, Kryten, don't want to sound rude (especially against you) but are you really gonna use that map ?

I might be too much focusing on accuracy and maybe my maps are not playable (rethorical question I hope ) but I ave some troubles with this one.

For instance, Western Persia (Iran) between the mountain range and the Euphrate valley is very fertile, that is basically the only rich area even nowadays (a large percentage of the Iranian population lives there today.

Mountains of Caucasus, Northern Irak or Cyprus are way too limited or even non existent. Caucasus should have limited natural routes (along rivers), now it is pretty much an open plain with some mountains.

 

[Yoda Power]

I agree with Lou, the map is´nt really very good.

BTW your ideas are interesting

 

[hetairoi22]

Kryten, if you post (or send me) the techs that are going to be in the scenario, and their benefits, I might be able to put together a tech tree (the chart says that is needed, no!?). I would also (maybe) be able to write some civilopedia entries.

 

[PCHighway]

I would like to help with any of those things under the 'CITIES' box, most everything else is beyond me. I think that it would come along faster with a tech tree, atleast, after that everything seems to fall in place. So I fully support hetairoi22 .

Calgacus- Did I offend you in some debate somewhere? I tend to be very contrary and I never like a debate unless I'm outnumbered at least 5-to-1.

No, I have had a couple debates with you and I’m not offended . BtW, I finally figured out that damn transparency problem. It was really blighting me.

 

[Akula]

Originally posted by Kryten

PRE-START SET-UP
-------------------------
In order to arrange who is at war with who, and to give Alexander at least the knowledge of where Egypt, Phoenicia, Ionia, Sparta and Cyprus are, it will be necessary to perform certain tasks before the scenario’s first turn (such as sailing a ‘super unit’ with unlimited movement and the radar ability around the whole of the Mediterranean coastline, then disbanding it, as well as some limited map exchanges....at least between the Hellenistic nations).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

You could do that yourself and include it as a save file, thus pre setting everything and preventing any troubble

And if you goit any siege engines or ships I might lend a hand
I really hope this project get finished

 

[Yoda Power]

Akula why would´nt you try a human unit?

 

[Akula]

The tool I got isn't really useful for making humans, so I don't like to try and make some, atleast not now
Furthermore I havn't had the time to try and make a human unit before so I'll have to use some time on getting it right, and Whit SOE, SOP and my upcomming exsams I don't have the time to try it right now, might make some later though

 

[Yoda Power]

Originally posted by Akula
The tool I got isn't really useful for making humans, so I don't like to try and make some, atleast not now
Furthermore I havn't had the time to try and make a human unit before so I'll have to use some time on getting it right, and Whit SOE, SOP and my upcomming exsams I don't have the time to try it right now, might make some later though

I see

(går du i gyminasiet?)

 

[Akula]

EUC-Vest, HTX

 

[Yoda Power]

Originally posted by Akula
EUC-Vest, HTX

ok

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by PCHighway


No, I have had a couple debates with you and I’m not offended

No, I know that we get on well at the moment

Originally posted by PCHighway

BtW, I finally figured out that damn transparency problem. It was really blighting me.

 

[Kryten]

Thank you very, very much everybody for all the offers of help.
And I would like to give a very special thanks to calgacus for getting this ball rolling again. I owe you one.
(And I haven't forgotten about that Aborigine that I promised you....)

There is so much to cover, so I'll try and be brief......

Originally posted by Akula
And if you got any siege engines or ships I might lend a hand

I was toying with the idea of some siege towers, but unfortunately I cannot think of how to implement them into the game.
In the old Civ2 days, it was possible to give these the 'ignore city walls' ability, so that they were not much use in the field, but ideal for taking cities.
This is not possible with Civ3.
However, I do have a need for a "Siege Galley"....

Here is a very quick and crude cut-'n-paste version, just to give an idea of how it may look....

Originally posted by PCHighway
I would like to help with any of those things under the 'CITIES' box, most everything else is beyond me

Yes Please!
For a start, I think that the wagons around my Scythian Nomadic encampments are too large when compared to the other cities.
And instead of lots of 'Minor City' resources scattered all over the place, it would be nice to have each one with it's own individual historical name.

Originally posted by hetairoi22
Kryten, if you post (or send me) the techs that are going to be in the scenario, and their benefits, I might be able to put together a tech tree (the chart says that is needed, no!?). I would also (maybe) be able to write some civilopedia entries.

Again, Yes Please!
Give me a few hours and I'll post a list of the items for the tech tree (basically, almost all of the Civ3 improvements with ancient sounding names).
This should give you and PCHighway something to work with.

Originally posted by LouLong
Kryten, don't want to sound rude (especially against you) but are you really gonna use that map ?
I might be too much focusing on accuracy and maybe my maps are not playable (rhetorical question I hope) but I have some troubles with this one.

Well, Exsanguination never actually got round to finishing and finalizing his map; what you see is as far as he got.
So it does indeed need more work.
And I think that your maps LouLong are some of the very best I have seen.
I would very much like you, if you are willing, to rough off the edges and make the final version of this map more realistic & accurate....or perhaps even make a new one, if you prefer.
I haven't asked you before because the map for this scenario will have some very unusual features, and I wanted to make sure that they would work before I wasted your time.

Here is the outline of the new ideas.
After discussions between Mongloid Cow, realn and myself, we thought that wouldn't it be nice to have the following:-

* Wouldn't it be nice not to have roads all over the place.
(They look horrible & unrealistic: the Romans were great road builders, but not the Greeks & Persians)
* Wouldn't it be nice if certain troops could only be built in certain areas.
(i.e. Thracian Peltasts come from Thrace, Bactrian horsemen come from Bactria, etc)
* Wouldn't it be nice if certain satraps were more rebellious than others.
(instead of every city having the same level of unhappiness right across the map)

Well, it CAN be done.
The idea is to make each satrap/province economically isolated from each other by severely limiting where roads can be built, and to remove the 'trade' flag from harbours.
This means that all the strategic resources and luxuries must STAY in that province, and cannot be exported.
(And if luxuries can run out and reappear elsewhere, then a province or satrap that was happy and content may suddenly find itself falling into disorder and rebelling.
So each region will need to be treated differently, according to local conditions.)

To achieve this I have made the following modifications:-
Tundra is now green, and now called "Grassland".
Grassland is now brown, and now called "Plains".
Plains are unchanged, and now called "Paths".
Floodplain is unchanged, and now called "Watered Sites".
Desert is unchanged, and now called "Arid".
Jungle is now sand dunes, and now called “Desert”.

Mountains will be impassable to ALL troops.
Cities can ONLY be built on “Watered Sites” (some are unoccupied, so that Alexander can build all his namesake cities).
Roads can ONLY be built on “Watered Sites” & “Paths”.
“Deserts” cannot be chopped down (they are really jungles remember), and anyone crossing them stands a good chance of the following message:-
“Sire, our troops are dying from thirst marching across this waterless wasteland!”
(The old jungle ‘disease’ effect.)

I have not yet applied these changes to Exsanguination’s old unfinished map, as I am still trying to get the colours and shades right.
I need a few more days to perfect them.

To my old mate Mongoloid Cow,

I am terribly sorry for not keeping in touch, but you know what it’s like....busybusybusy....
Please forgive me.
And yes, Kryten is from Red Dwarf....
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=693622&highlight=attachment#post693622

 

[Akula]

Okay I'll try and make a siege galley when I get the time

 

[PCHighway]

Is there a place I can download the cities? Take it from the picture you posted? Or should I start from scratch?

While looking for some possible Roman era naval units, I found this Link
Ancient Galleys

And while looking for Hellenistic infantry units I found this link.
Hoplon Construction

The second link was meant to be looked at by hetairoi22 for a possible tech name(s).
The First link was to give Kryten an idea for names of ships, etc.

While looking at the second link later, I found this, perhaps to little to late, but might be worth looking at. Or, you may have all ready heard of it.
Hoplite Assoctiation

During aforementioned research I found out that many ancient civilizations had hoplon soldiers. The Italians (Romans, Etruscans, Latins, etc.) seemed to use them as a standard.

And as an ok history site, this one might be of some use, but it is more than possible you have heard of it.
Hellas.net

I have a question about where I should post previews and ask questions (this thread? Realn’s site? CDG?) as I have trouble making a final decision .

Calgacus- No, I know that we get on well at the moment

We get on well at the moment? Whats that supposed to mean? Wait, I changed my mind, I don’t want to know .

 

[Louis XXIV]

Kryten, how often do you visit the CDG forums?