All Things Star Wars

[JohannaK]

It's horrible writing. The acting isn't exactly Oscar-worthy (if that even means anything), but I don't think anything could ameliorate those awful lines.

 

[Traitorfish]

I feel like the Han Solo movie could be as bad of an idea as the Catholic Church releasing gospels that describe what Jesus did as a teenager and young adult. Right now nobody knows, which adds to the mystery of the man. Did he spend the whole time studying carpentry and being an apprentice? Was he a master chef? Did he travel the world? Did he study kung fu in China? Was he just going around preaching from different mounds until one stuck? Did he just bum around and do nothing? Were there any miracles? Nobody knows. He was a baby then *poof* he's a 30 year old son of God. I feel that any sort of backstory you find out about him is likely going to be disappointing because most people fill in the blanks with their own ideas. Or it's going to be way over the top. Striking that balance would be difficult, IMO.

So it could go either way. I'm actually optimistic about it, but it would be easy to screw up. So I hope they don't.

The thing is, though, Han Solo's mystery is an affectation. We know more or less what he did- spent twenty years skirting the edge of the galaxy, making mischief and loosing money at more or less the same rate he made it -we just don't know the particulars. I agree that not knowing all of those particulars makes for a more interesting character, but if they're started at the far end of those twenty years, there's plenty of time for background-forming hi-jinks in between.

 

[warpus]

The thing is, though, Han Solo's mystery is an affectation. We know more or less what he did- spent twenty years skirting the edge of the galaxy, making mischief and loosing money at more or less the same rate he made it -we just don't know the particulars. I agree that not knowing all of those particulars makes for a more interesting character, but if they're started at the far end of those twenty years, there's plenty of time for background-forming hi-jinks in between.

I'm a bit worried that they are going to present a story too grand in scope. We always get the sense that Solo only really became the Han Solo we know in Episode IV. Before that he was just a smuggler who frequently got himself in trouble, and yeah, was at times cunning and clever and a good pilot or whatever, but he was nobody the history books would write about. He was a smuggler known to other smugglers but he was not somebody contributing to general history-changing events. His first involvement in grand scale type events began in Episode IV, when he joined the Rebel alliance and became an integral part of the fight against the empire. Now maybe that's just my own personal take on things, but that's always how his character seems to come across, based on the movies we have seen so far.

So if the movie is all about smugglers and smuggler adventures that do not have far-reaching implications in the galaxy or its the political landscape.. then that could work. But it has to be done right. I mean, at that point it becomes easy to write a story people won't care about. "Look how he manages to smuggle that thing from one place to another!" .. .. It could be a fun and engaging story depending on how its written, but it could also lead to people responding with "Well so what?". On the other hand if you "force" something to feel important even though in the grand scheme of things the audiences already knows it isn't.. i.e. let's say the story is about Jabba the Hut's wedding and Han Solo has to crash it.. just literally the first example that popped in my head, don't think of it as a serious idea for the movie at all, it isn't.. The point is that you can have a lot of explosions and fights and action but in the end still leave the audience feeling like not much of importance transpired.

I think they are sort of forced to involve events from his past life that we have heard about. That famous race. His history with the Huts. His friendship with Lando. These need to be the hooks that give the story a sense of importance. Then in between all that you insert smuggler adventures..

But then the issue becomes that you can very easily take something that has been a mystery and make it into a joke when you explain it. For example, we don't know anything at all about that race I don't think, except that for whatever reason distance matters. There's so many ways to do so many stupid things with that premise...

There's ways to make this movie work and be good and not take away from the Han Solo character.. but I think it's going to be a tough balancing act. So many potential pitfalls! It's hard enough to make a prequel work, but now they have to make a prequel work that's also a sequel.

 

[JohannaK]

You worry too much.

 

[warpus]

You worry too much.

Hollywood's track record is the main cause of the little worrying that I do. iLike I said I am optimistic that they can pull it off. It just won't be easy

 

[Phrossack]

My problem is that I just don't care much about Han. He's just not that interesting. I'm a bigger fan of Boba (*ducks*), but really, I'd rather they go somewhere new. Maybe something between VI and VII, or VII and VIII. For the latter, they could introduce all-new characters in new places, and end the story right where VIII will begin.

 

[Commodore]

I'm a bigger fan of Boba

A lot of Star Wars fans seem to have this opinion and I just don't get it. What is so interesting about a character that was on screen for all of ten minutes, had no speaking parts in the original version of the films, and whose biggest contribution to the films was getting easily tossed into the sarlacc by Luke during his daring escape? So many Star Wars fans revere him as some sort of supreme badass, when his only significant appearance in the films showed him getting absolutely owned by a force user that had hardly any formal training.

 

[JohannaK]

Not even that. It is blind Han Solo accidentally prodding his jetpack with some sort of stick or lance that leads him to fall into the pit.

 

[Commodore]

Not even that. It is blind Han Solo accidentally prodding his jetpack with some sort of stick or lance that leads him to fall into the pit.

Oh yeah, I forgot. "Greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy" my butt.

 

[Traitorfish]

A lot of Star Wars fans seem to have this opinion and I just don't get it. What is so interesting about a character that was on screen for all of ten minutes, had no speaking parts in the original version of the films, and whose biggest contribution to the films was getting easily tossed into the sarlacc by Luke during his daring escape? So many Star Wars fans revere him as some sort of supreme badass, when his only significant appearance in the films showed him getting absolutely owned by a force user that had hardly any formal training.

He was also in Empire, mind, and had a bit of a better showing.

But it all comes down to what Warpus was saying earlier, about mystery. Fett looks cool, says little, and gives nothing away, so it's easy for the imagination to run wild. Granted, his initial outing clearly wasn't written with his later popularity in mind, but you could say that about a lot of things in the OT.

 

[JohannaK]

Jesus would have been so much better as a character if we had just stuck to what we see of him in Ben-Hur. But no, the Church had to come and ruin a perfectly good film by releasing some fanfictions about his adult days.

 

[Gen.Mannerheim]

So I have a Star War’s confession to make. I’m not a huge fan of a New Hope…

I have always had an issue with a couple of plot holes in Episode IV.

Firstly, why did the gang go straight to Yavin 4 after escaping the Death Star? Yes they needed to get the Death Star plans to the Rebel Scum for analyzing. However, Princess Leia herself knew that the Empire was tracking them. Sure Han was skeptical about the idea, but for all the “smarts” which the OT attributed to Leia, why would she risk leading the Empire to her rebel cell?

Wouldn’t it have made more sense to either a) stop off at a planet and just hire another ship, b) stop off on another planet and get in contact with local rebel agents to get smuggled to safety, or c) send a transmission to have a rebel ship (heck even a single X-Wing would do) meet them in space, drop off the plans, and then lead the Empire on a chase in the Falcon while the rebels prepare a plan to stop them?

My second issue; why in the world is Luke in charge of a fighter flight? I don’t have a problem with Luke in an X-Wing. Sure Luke had no experience in combat and was the equivalent of putting a crop duster into an F-16, but they were undermanned and facing total destruction so all hands of deck makes sense. And putting him in the new model X-Wing is understandable because it’s pretty obvious that the rebels intended for the Y-Wings (fighter-bombers) to do the really technical stuff of blowing up the Death Star while the X-Wings provide cover. You’d want you more experienced and sure-handed pilots in the Y-Wings.

However, making Luke the flight leader makes zero sense. He has no combat or leadership training. He’s in a spacecraft he’s never seen before. He just joined the Rebellion this morning. And, most importantly for me, he was put in charge of Biggs and Wedge. Biggs and Wedge were both Imperially trained pilots with real mission experience. Given that Biggs was Luke’s friend and vouched for him, it makes perfect sense that Luke would be place under him. Under him being the operative word.

 

[Synobun]

It's a space opera.

 

[warpus]

All good space operas should have a logical and believable plot. The man has some decent points

However, I would guess Luke was put in charge because of Leia. She could feel things about him and had a lot of pull. But yeah it is weird that nobody spoke up and so on

As for the falcon being potentially bugged, I thought they didn't have time to go elsewhere. Plus I'm sure Solo regularly scans his ship for trackers and what not. Leia should have known better overall, but I thought they just didn' t have time.

 

[Synobun]

However, I would guess Luke was put in charge because of Leia. She could feel things about him and had a lot of pull. But yeah it is weird that nobody spoke up and so on

As mythical as Han Solo may have portrayed it, the Force was still rather well-known in the upper echelons of rebel hierarchy. Since Luke had been exposed as a Force sensitive by that time, it is not unreasonable that they would be rather eager beaver to have a Force sensitive in command of a flight wing. A sensitive with a keen sense for intuition (which is basically all Luke was in that moment) would be more valuable than a seasoned pilot mainly because his intuition would require immediate compliance, something that would not be possible if he were a subordinate. Wedge and Biggs could steer him in battle policy as that is less "act now" than the other.

 

[warpus]

I agree that it would have been good to have Luke around, but he had not displayed any sort of leadership qualities up until that point at all. So making him into a leader right there on the spot was a bit weird. I mean even in the days of the Republic the Jedi needed to go through a ton of training and experience to ever end up in a military leadership position. Baby steps and so on. So yeah I guess everybody at the rebel base might have been "wowed" at the presence of a force sensitive person, but he wasn't even a Jedi back then yet. I don't think. So it does seem a bit fishy. I mean, we know the real reason why it was done, so that Luke could fulfill his destiny. It was basically done so that the plot could move forward.

 

[Sommerswerd]

So I have a Star War’s confession to make. I’m not a huge fan of a New Hope…

Meh, I can't judge... I've already committed the heresy of admitting I've changed my mind about TPM (I think its excellent now).

Firstly, why did the gang go straight to Yavin 4 after escaping the Death Star? Yes they needed to get the Death Star plans to the Rebel Scum for analyzing. However, Princess Leia herself knew that the Empire was tracking them. Sure Han was skeptical about the idea, but for all the “smarts” which the OT attributed to Leia, why would she risk leading the Empire to her rebel cell? Wouldn’t it have made more sense to either a) stop off at a planet and just hire another ship, b) stop off on another planet and get in contact with local rebel agents to get smuggled to safety, or c) send a transmission to have a rebel ship (heck even a single X-Wing would do) meet them in space, drop off the plans, and then lead the Empire on a chase in the Falcon while the rebels prepare a plan to stop them?

Let me put on my fanboy/apologist hat and say this is an easy one. Leia directly stated that there was a lot of stuff left to do "It's not over yet"... Han's response was, quote "It is for me sister. Look, I ain’t in this for your revolution. I’m not in it for you Princess. I expect to be well paid. I’m in it for the money." In response, Leia angrily sneers at him that he will be paid, calls him a mercenary that doesn't care about anything or anyone and storms off in a huff. Obviously, she knew at that point that any plans she had for what to do next were irrelevant, as Han wasn't interested in anything but dropping her off and getting paid.

In other words, Han is a pirate, its his ship, he has complete control over the destination, and he has no interest whatsoever in the larger, big-picture "success" of Leia's mission. As far as he's concerned, the mission is over, the guy who promised to pay him (Obi Wan) is dead, and they barely escaped with their lives. He is going straight to the place where he gets paid. No stopping off anywhere or any other shenanigans that might result in him not getting paid. Since Obi Wan is dead, his only shot of getting paid is getting Leia dropped off. No way he is going to risk that by letting her off his ship anywhere but in the place where he gets paid. He certainly isn't handing her over to any shady Rebel operatives or some other smugglers who would then claim his bounty.

Also... contact the Rebels for a rendevous? Han doesn't want anyone unnecessarily knowing where he is. Remember, he still owes Jabba, and he already had to kill one bounty hunter to escape that axe hanging over his head. No way Han is agreeing to any detours, stops, or transmissions as that would increase the chances of him getting caught. He needs to get his money and pay Jabba ASAP. Remember, the whole carbon-freeze thing in EP 5, is a direct result of him "getting sidetracked."

 

[Sommerswerd]

I agree that it would have been good to have Luke around, but he had not displayed any sort of leadership qualities up until that point at all.

I disagree. Remember how Luke was introduced to Leia... "I'm Luke Skywalker and I'm here to rescue you. I've got your R2 unit and I'm here with Ben Kenobi." he basically takes credit for everything... that's the first impression.

So to recap... In disguise, he snuck onto the Death Star, as part of his mastermind plan to rescue her and successfully deliver her droid with the stolen plans along with the legendary General Obi Wan Kenobi. Her first impression of him had to be that he was some Rebel-sympathetic Commando badass, who was also the chosen protégé of the mythical Jedi Master Kenobi. And who was going to tell her otherwise? Kenobi was dead, she never spoke to him... and Han was obviously "the help"... some unsavory character the mastermind (Luke) had to hire (and obviously did some serious salesman-fu on, since Han hadn't been paid yet) in order to help get her and the plans rescued. Plus Han, cosigned the "Luke is the mastermind" narrative in the prison shootout, by pointing at Luke and yelling "He's the brains Sweetheart!!" For all Leia knows, Han was hired, on commission, by Luke to rescue her.

Also, he ninja-grappling-hooked her to safety, AND shot down a couple of Tie fighters to boot... and don't forget he carries his own Lightsaber... Yeah... he's basically a Jedi already in her mind... he's leading the fighter squadron.

 

[warpus]

Yeah I agree that Leia was wowed by Luke, but I was talking about everybody else at that base. Plus there is a very large difference between being able to put together a rag tag rescue mission that relies on luck more than anything and leading a military unit into battle.

 

[JohannaK]

I agree with Sommers on the bugged Falcon bit. The flight commanding I shrug off, but I can understand not being big on A New Hope. I have been meaning to get a friend who hasnt seen any of the films to seeing them in the Machete Order, but I worry that she will be turned off by the dated visuals and relativr lack of action for what we have come to expect of blockbusters.

OTOH, while I loved TPM as a kid and I still mostly enjoy it, the final three-way fight is ruined for me. It is so evidently a choreography, which is patent all across the prequel trilogy but especially glaring in this supposedly epic climax. They are struggling to hit their marks away from each other, and it is something I just cannot ignore any more.