All Things Star Wars

[EgonSpengler]

What a pity Irwin Kershner died some years ago.
[...]
Interesting, eh? One thing TFA and the prequels lacked was some character development.

If I could press-gang a director into doing it, I'd get Alfonso Cuarón. Y Tu Mama Tambien; Children of Men; Gravity. He wrote the screenplays for those too, fwiw. He also directed what some say was the best Harry Potter movie - The Prisoner of Azkaban - but I haven't seen it.

 

[Arakhor]

The Prisoner of Azkaban was my favourite of the films, I think.

 

[warpus]

JJ Abrams' whole career is built on giving us flashy things that look amazing but that in the end might not really make sense in the grand scheme of things. He did this with Lost, Star Trek, TFA...

 

[Takhisis]

The first two HP films were more or less the same as the books, which, as they were seen from the perspective of a preadolescent boy, wasn't that bad. The third film was actually a film which told the same story as the corresponding book did, but planned and delivered as a film.
The rest of the series was rubbish.

 

[JohannaK]

Yes, Cuarón would be a genius option, if he could be brought on board. On the topic of Mexican filmmakers, Del Toro wouldn't be a bad choice either if he were willing.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Yeah, Del Toro would be great. He already has a kind of Star Wars-y creature/alien thing in a lot of his movies. I'm thinking of the secret marketplace under the NYC bridge in one of the Hellboy movies. He would have been 12 when the first Star Wars was in theaters. We could have a whole Mexican Star Wars trilogy - Alejandro Inarritu would have to do the middle one, though, where the bad guys win and everybody leaves the theater despondent.

 

[Takhisis]

We have to shoehorn Diego Luna's spirit into it somehow.

 

[EgonSpengler]

If we're going all-Mexican, I bet Demian Bichir would look good in a Star Wars movie.

 

[JohannaK]

I think they might be planning that for X-XII.

 

[Gen.Mannerheim]

JJ Abrams' whole career is built on giving us flashy things that look amazing but that in the end might not really make sense in the grand scheme of things. He did this with Lost, Star Trek, TFA...

When I first heard that JJ was picked for Ep. VII, I thought that he was the perfect guy for the job because unlike Lucas he seem to understand the importance of real sets and effects. Now that I've seen more of his movies, and realize that his "mystery box" garbage is just a convenient excuse not to worry about putting together a coherent plot, I'm really nervous for the SW future.

The first two HP films were more or less the same as the books, which, as they were seen from the perspective of a preadolescent boy, wasn't that bad. The third film was actually a film which told the same story as the corresponding book did, but planned and delivered as a film.
The rest of the series was rubbish.

I only read the first three books and watched all 8 films. It always seemed to me that most of the adventures between book/movie 2 and the last were just filler to pad out 7 installments. Even something as cool as the Sirius Black story arc didn't seem to go anywhere in the grand scheme of things. But again, this may just be my experiences as 80% movies only.

 

[tjs282]

The 2009 Star Trek movie uses a lot of lens flare. This was a style decision by director J. J. Abrams, who stated it was to represent a bright future. He later admitted he went overboard with the lens flares.

He did it in Super 8 too (and first), which was set in 1979 -- so what was his excuse that time...?

I watched TFA with my family, at the cinema, dubbed into German, but that wasn't an issue (it's not like the SW movies have complicated scripts, after all: "Ich habe eine schlechtes Gefühl..."). No, what's jaded my appreciation for the franchise (more than Lucas and JJB already had, anyway) was more down to JJA's whole schtick of 'Hey dawg, I heard you liked ANH -- so here's yet another thinly disguised re-scripting of that movie, only with everything even BIGGER and with MORE 'SPLOSIONS (and lens flaaare)!' (By my count, TFA represents the 3rd time ANH has been re-filmed, the first twice being RotJ and TPM...). I liked Rogue One a hell of a lot better.

So I wish JJA hadn't directed it, but even more, I wish he hadn't had any hand in writing it, because having seen Lost (Seasons 1+2), Super 8, and TFA, his general approach to scriptwriting appears to be 'Throw stuff in randomly, see what sticks, claim that everything else [that doesn't make sense] will be explained later, then forget to do so'. And no matter how gorgeous Daisy Ridley is I didn't much care for Rey as a character, either -- too Mary-Sueish for me...

Spoiler Not SW-related, sorry... :

The first two HP films were more or less the same as the books
*snip*
The rest of the series was rubbish.

HERESY! I dunno: I quite liked GoF as well, but that was probably the most cinematic of the 7 books anyway. I certainly agree with you on OotP (tried too hard to be a comedy, needed more shouting) and HBP (too much monochrome and teenage-hormones, needed more Riddle-memories), but I thought DH.i and DH.ii weren't so bad as movies -- albeit forever tainted by the blatant cash-grabbiness of splitting the book into 2 parts.

I only read the first three books and watched all 8 films. It always seemed to me that most of the adventures between book/movie 2 and the last were just filler to pad out 7 installments.

Well, maybe, but it's not as though Harry's ready to defeat a fully embodied LV while still aged 13 -- and 7 years is the normal duration for secondary schooling in the UK, so Rowling's planning and writing 7 books kind of makes sense from that PoV, too. Also, each book introduced additional characters, themes and plot-threads that would become increasingly important (although not so much in the movies, because of time/budget-constraints, and/or lazy scripting).

Plus, "Isn't seven the most powerfully magical number?" ...

Even something as cool as the Sirius Black story arc didn't seem to go anywhere in the grand scheme of things. But again, this may just be my experiences as 80% movies only.

Yeah, that's one of the major technical problems of the later HP movies: they basically require the audience to be familiar enough with the books to know what was (supposed to have been) going on behind the scenes, so to speak.

Sirius is a really good example of that: after meeting and then rescuing him in PoA, book-Harry has a fair bit of additional interaction with Sirius in GoF and OotP, including letter-writing (which, admittedly, is not very cinematic), so the reader clearly sees how their relationship develops, and how important they become to one another (book-Dumbledore describes Harry's feelings for Sirius as 'somewhere between an older brother and a surrogate parent'). Conversely, (IIRC) movie-Harry has maybe 4 or 5 conversations with Sirius in total over those 3 movies, and between those scenes, as far as the viewer is concerned, Sirius pretty much doesn't exist -- so why should we care that he *SPOILER*

(And this applies even more strongly to Dobby, who pops up repeatedly in Books 4-6 before rescuing Harry and co. in DH; movie-Dobby appears only in CoS -- as a minor antagonist! -- and DH.i).

On the topic of Mexican filmmakers, Del Toro wouldn't be a bad choice either if he were willing

Agree. HellBoy and Pacific Rim are good-looking, fun popcorn-flicks, and Pan's Labyrinth had pathos and style.

Based on the strengths of Valerian, Luc Besson might be able to direct a half decent SW-film, as well -- so long as he didn't get to write the script or pick the stars!

 

[EgonSpengler]

[...]what's jaded my appreciation for the franchise (more than Lucas and JJB already had, anyway) was more down to JJA's whole schtick of 'Hey dawg, I heard you liked ANH -- so here's yet another thinly disguised re-scripting of that movie, only with everything even BIGGER and with MORE 'SPLOSIONS

This was my problem with The Force Awakens. The whole lens flare thing has never bothered me much, but the movie was too much of a rehash.

Abrams is also a great example of something I wrote in another thread, that putting a good ending on a story is really, really difficult, for anybody. There are tons of movies, tv shows, and PC games that take off like magnificent, sparkly rockets aimed at the heavens... and then fizzle, come apart, or crash. I wasn't a big fan of Lost - I think I drifted away from that in season 2 - but I really liked Alias, and iirc he never resolved/concluded the whole "Rambaldi Artifacts" storyline in a satisfying way. I loved the 1st half of Super 8, but it crumbled in the 2nd half. I think Abrams has great ability to set up interesting ideas without necessarily knowing where they're going, and I think his whole "mystery box" thing is just an idea he came up with to paper over that weakness. And it worked, for a while, but maybe he needs a writing partner.

 

[Gen.Mannerheim]

This was my problem with The Force Awakens.

I'm really hopeful that the musical score gets greater attention in The Last Jedi. Every Star Wars film had that one (or more) musical score that seemed to transcend the film itself: "Duel Of The Fates" -PM, "Across the Stars" -AotC, "Battle of the Heroes" -RotS, "Binary Sunset" -ANH, "The Imperial March" -ESB, "The Emperor's Theme" -RotJ etc.

The closest thing The Force Awakens had to a distinctive piece was "March of the Resistance", and even it obviously took heavy cues from the Rebels in the Original Trilogy.

I'm terrified that 5 min into The Last Jedi I'm going to hear "The Imperial March" in new clothes. But I think Williams to too good to go that rout twice.

 

[Gen.Mannerheim]

themes and plot-threads that would become increasingly important (although not so much in the movies, because of time/budget-constraints, and/or lazy scripting).

I got that vibe from the way the movies treated the Cho(?) character. My Harry Potter friends described her as his first love and that though she hints at returning his affections, thing just never work out to give them a chance. Then I watched the film and she just looked like some girl Harry wanted to take to fantasy prom but no big deal, he'll just take this Indian twin.

Same for the Jenny romance, shes got a crush on him in the second book/film and then noting until the end and then boom! soulmates.

 

[r16]

ı have ended with a e-book format of the latest "Viewpoint" book . A collection of short stories "between" Rogue and A New Hope . Am not a literary critic - ı don't get some , ı like some . Then there's the super ones like the Red Droid that blows up . The EU variant had midichlorians accidently ending up in lubricants and it was a nice one , as long as one can stand midichlorians . But am not a fan the dead returning , you know like so much , cuts down the "miracle" aspect .

what's more , the general tendency is like against the '77 Spirit . When the Empire was evil and the good guys were good . While a nice one in itself , do we really need wildlife just wanting to hang out with people ? There should be no credibility to any claims that Luke Skywalker killed a million innocents . Will react to that . So , this Motti or whatever guy pushing Tarkin to a direction is a good contribution . Death Star's technical explanation is that Palpatine can escape to it if he is "exposed" and the entire Imperial Starfleet turns against him ; so 50 000 tops .

also we still do not know how much damage J.J. Abrams will yet do to the Star Wars . Making Scarif immediately before Alderaan / Yavin 4 cuts out the options of keeping the "flame" alive . Yes , there is always the previous Rebellion , which failed . It's not as that good to paint pictures on the canvas of "Keep up and the Good will prevail in the end." And of course , Rogue I will be given a Lucas treatment and visibly altered , sometime , somehow . Making Tantive IV at Scariff gives Palpatine a "fully" justifiable thing to close down the Senate , with Senators actively engaged in unlawful activities ; certainly not the 77 spirit thing . With finally getting a means of pure terror - that can not be negated by the whole of the Galaxy (say if Vader rebels as Siths are required to and puppets a coup) . And , running straight to Tatooine , like "You are our only Hope" , with Vader in tow - with knowledge of what Vader does ? This won't do , even with the nice addition of an House Organa to the planet , you know , where every thing is bleak ?

 

[Sommerswerd]

He did it in Super 8 too (and first), which was set in 1979 -- so what was his excuse that time...?

I watched TFA with my family, at the cinema, dubbed into German, but that wasn't an issue (it's not like the SW movies have complicated scripts, after all: "Ich habe eine schlechtes Gefühl..."). No, what's jaded my appreciation for the franchise (more than Lucas and JJB already had, anyway) was more down to JJA's whole schtick of 'Hey dawg, I heard you liked ANH -- so here's yet another thinly disguised re-scripting of that movie, only with everything even BIGGER and with MORE 'SPLOSIONS (and lens flaaare)!' (By my count, TFA represents the 3rd time ANH has been re-filmed, the first twice being RotJ and TPM...). I liked Rogue One a hell of a lot better.

Reading this... something hit me. I just got some better insight as to why I liked AotC the most of the PT films... because its different. It's so different from any of the other movies that came before it... its got that whole Blade Runner part going on and the whole the political storyline, the cloning planet storyline and finally culminating with the gladiator-arena sequence with dozens of Jedi fighting at once. EP2 doesent have any of the rehashy'ness that folks point out in the other films.

And I agree with @Arakhor that Azkaban was the best. The Dementers + Expecto Patronum= FTW

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Reading this... something hit me. I just got some better insight as to why I liked AotC the most of the PT films... because its different. It's so different from any of the other movies that came before it... its got that whole Blade Runner part going on and the whole the political storyline, the cloning planet storyline and finally culminating with the gladiator-arena sequence with dozens of Jedi fighting at once. EP2 doesent have any of the rehashy'ness that folks point out in the other films.

The one thing we can never fault George for is imagination. I saw a documentary a few weeks ago about the making of A New Hope, and even back then, he had put names to all the background characters so it wasn't just the Expanded Universe reaching—which caused him problems when he was pitching it since the lore was so dense.

Lucas was an excellent worldbuilder. S'just a shame his writing was so stilted.

 

[tjs282]

I just got some better insight as to why I liked AotC the most of the PT films... because its different. It's so different from any of the other movies that came before it...

Weeelllll.... yeah, the Kamino scenes and the gladiatorial duel with 100s of Jedi, those were cool-and-different.

But you have to admit it does hit a few of those Empire-beats, as well: for example you've got the slow 'romantic' scenes in the middle, with "Anakin/Padme in the meadows" mirroring the Han/Leia sparring in the asteroid field/Cloud City (Han's cooler tho'!). And a somewhat reckless Jedi-in-training gets his hand cut off by a Sith-apprentice at the end of both films, too...

its got that whole Blade Runner part going on

Huh? BR is one of my all-time favourite films, but I have no idea what parallel(s) you're seeing between it and AotC (of all films). Please expand on this, because I'm intrigued...

 

[Sommerswerd]

Weeelllll.... yeah, the Kamino scenes and the gladiatorial duel with 100s of Jedi, those were cool-and-different.

But you have to admit it does hit a few of those Empire-beats, as well: for example you've got the slow 'romantic' scenes in the middle, with "Anakin/Padme in the meadows" mirroring the Han/Leia sparring in the asteroid field/Cloud City (Han's cooler tho'!). And a somewhat reckless Jedi-in-training gets his hand cut off by a Sith-apprentice at the end of both films, too...
Huh? BR is one of my all-time favourite films, but I have no idea what parallel(s) you're seeing between it and AotC (of all films). Please expand on this, because I'm intrigued...

About the Empire stuff... sure, but I'd hope you will agree that foreshadowing has been a big part of the Star Wars storytelling approach since the beginning, so the cut hand foreshadowing the next one is more like a feature than a bug. As for the romances mirroring each other... in the abstract sense maybe, but those two romances didn't really have much in common other than them both involving a boy and a girl and Padme being a government leader.

As for the allusions to Blade Runner (and The Fifth Element)... what I'm referencing is the whole assassination/chase sequence at the beginning. the whole Cityscape, including (maybe especially) the part when they go street level to look for the assassin on foot is very reminiscent of Blade Runner. But don't take my word for it, here's an article I found discussing the same subject:

http://www.ralphehanson.com/2012/03...es-as-a-tribute-to-the-films-of-ridley-scott/

 

[tjs282]

I'd hope you will agree that foreshadowing has been a big part of the Star Wars storytelling approach since the beginning, so the cut hand foreshadowing the next one is more like a feature than a bug.

Hmmm... Considering that ESB was made about 20 years before AotC, I'm not sure you can really call Anakin getting his hand cut off foreshadowing, as such...

Luke getting his hand cut off in ESB, that's what I'd call foreshadowing. It also (finally) taught him to be a lot less reckless. (And in the RotJ novelisation by Alan Dean Foster, the sight of Vader's stump at the end of their duel, is also emphasised as the tipping-point when Luke realises how dangerously close he's come to following his father over to the Dark Side, and recognises that not only must he make a deliberate decision to reject that path, but that this choice will only be meaningful if he is willing to sacrifice his own life for it.)

Conversely, why was it narratively necessary for Anakin to lose his hand to Dooku, other than as a nod back to ESB? It certainly taught him nothing...

the whole Cityscape, including (maybe especially) the part when they go street level to look for the assassin on foot is very reminiscent of Blade Runner.

Boooom! Headshot! Yes, now you mention it, the visual echoes are clear (and deliberate, according to that article you linked) -- although Lucas apparently drew the line at having torrential downpours on Coruscant

But I was more wondering if there were parallels along the lines of plot and themes, that I'd never noticed. Guess... not?