alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
they lost marathon? i'm sure they beat the persians there though....
Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!
- Thread starter Amenhotep7
- Start date
Jason The King
Deity
Yah, I'm almost positive the Athenians won also.
das
Regeneration In Process
I agree, the Athenians won.
Warman, Napoleon stood no chance. Even if he had won at Waterloo, he would still have to deal with that massive Russo-Austrian army moving west to encounter him. Its commanders counted on Blucher winning. Napoleon had, apart from his guard, assembled a rather crappy army as he had no time to get a better one. But I agree that it would change some stuff - Britain would have less influence in the post-Napoleon Europe and Prussia would be considerably weaker.
Some more...
- WI no Native Americans existed? There is a wonderful scenario for that by Doug Hoff, its called "Empty America" but I'm too lazy to post a link.
- WI Romans encountered the Chinese (not by trade, but by exploration. Maybe if Romans won at Carrhae and conquered Mesopatamia early on?)?
- WI neither Rome, neither China came to be
wink?
- WI an Ugro-Finnic nation appeared during the Dark Ages?
- WI Sorbs (East German Slavs) survived as a nation, or, better yet, along with Poles and some others would've invaded the rest of Europe?
- WI Charlemagne did not divide his empire?
- WI Magyars left Holy Roman Empire stillborn by defeating the Germans?
- WI Rurik did not come to Russia? Could've the Russian tribes formed a nation/nations all by themselves? Or perhaps they would follow the footsteps of the Huns?
- WI Sung China survived and started an industrial revolution, as well as discovered the New World? This was perhaps the most promising Chinese dynasty, and it just got very unlucky. Maybe if the Mongols never united, or united a century later?
- WI Barbarossa succesfully conquered Italy?
Warman, Napoleon stood no chance. Even if he had won at Waterloo, he would still have to deal with that massive Russo-Austrian army moving west to encounter him. Its commanders counted on Blucher winning. Napoleon had, apart from his guard, assembled a rather crappy army as he had no time to get a better one. But I agree that it would change some stuff - Britain would have less influence in the post-Napoleon Europe and Prussia would be considerably weaker.
Some more...
- WI no Native Americans existed? There is a wonderful scenario for that by Doug Hoff, its called "Empty America" but I'm too lazy to post a link.
- WI Romans encountered the Chinese (not by trade, but by exploration. Maybe if Romans won at Carrhae and conquered Mesopatamia early on?)?
- WI neither Rome, neither China came to be
wink?- WI an Ugro-Finnic nation appeared during the Dark Ages?
- WI Sorbs (East German Slavs) survived as a nation, or, better yet, along with Poles and some others would've invaded the rest of Europe?
- WI Charlemagne did not divide his empire?
- WI Magyars left Holy Roman Empire stillborn by defeating the Germans?
- WI Rurik did not come to Russia? Could've the Russian tribes formed a nation/nations all by themselves? Or perhaps they would follow the footsteps of the Huns?
- WI Sung China survived and started an industrial revolution, as well as discovered the New World? This was perhaps the most promising Chinese dynasty, and it just got very unlucky. Maybe if the Mongols never united, or united a century later?
- WI Barbarossa succesfully conquered Italy?
Cashie
King
Conceeded, sorry guys. I was under the impression that the runner had died running from Marathon to Athen to report a [overwhelming] loss. Must've got my wires crosses somewhere....alex994 said:
Hang on...From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marathon
Talk about having the wrong end of the stick. Was a while since I did Ancient History...and Greek history isn't one of my strengths
das
Regeneration In Process
I guess we should leave that area to Xen, along with Roman history.
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
What if Justinian succeeded in keeping his reconquests?
das
Regeneration In Process
Not darn bloody likely - he had other things to worry about. However, what if Belisarius accepted the throne of the Western Roman Empire? He could've rebuilt it, or at least a bit of it.
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
Belisaurus was offered the throne of the Western Roman Empire?
Interesting. That wouldn't make a half-bad NES.
Interesting. That wouldn't make a half-bad NES.
das
Regeneration In Process
Well, the Italian (Ostrogoth) nobles, when he entered Rome, asked him to crown himself emperor of the Western Roman Empire (restoring it) instead of giving it to Justinian. Being loyal as he was, he refused.
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
Hmm... A Rebuilt Roman Empire would be most interesting. With Ostrogothic nobles and the BYzantines and Belisaurus's side, it may have been possible....
das
Regeneration In Process
Actually, Justinian will probably be mad at Belisarius, and will probably attack him. Nevertheless, I believe that a Western Roman Empire could have been rebuilt given the right leadership.
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
Did Belisaurus have the loyalty of his troops? Meaning, did the troops value Belisurus over Justinian?
Norseone
Emperor
das said:I agree, the Athenians won.
Warman, Napoleon stood no chance. Even if he had won at Waterloo, he would still have to deal with that massive Russo-Austrian army moving west to encounter him. Its commanders counted on Blucher winning. Napoleon had, apart from his guard, assembled a rather crappy army as he had no time to get a better one. But I agree that it would change some stuff - Britain would have less influence in the post-Napoleon Europe and Prussia would be considerably weaker.
Some more...
- WI no Native Americans existed? There is a wonderful scenario for that by Doug Hoff, its called "Empty America" but I'm too lazy to post a link.
- WI Romans encountered the Chinese (not by trade, but by exploration. Maybe if Romans won at Carrhae and conquered Mesopatamia early on?)?
- WI neither Rome, neither China came to be
- WI an Ugro-Finnic nation appeared during the Dark Ages?
- WI Sorbs (East German Slavs) survived as a nation, or, better yet, along with Poles and some others would've invaded the rest of Europe?
- WI Charlemagne did not divide his empire?
- WI Magyars left Holy Roman Empire stillborn by defeating the Germans?
- WI Rurik did not come to Russia? Could've the Russian tribes formed a nation/nations all by themselves? Or perhaps they would follow the footsteps of the Huns?
- WI Sung China survived and started an industrial revolution, as well as discovered the New World? This was perhaps the most promising Chinese dynasty, and it just got very unlucky. Maybe if the Mongols never united, or united a century later?
- WI Barbarossa succesfully conquered Italy?
Wow Das, I found the althist site and its great! Somone should do NESs based on his stories.
das
Regeneration In Process
Amen, his troops were loyal to him, and I believe that due to his reputation there were quite a lot of troops that could defect to him from other armies. Nevertheless, Justinian also had Ioann's army, so it would be yet another Roman/Byzantine civil war.
Btw, check out this site.
http://www.alternatehistory.com/ahdirectory.html
Btw, check out this site.
http://www.alternatehistory.com/ahdirectory.html
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
So assuming Justinian won, and rebuilt Rome... It's quite the interesting prospect! I may make a map for it...
Anyways, that site is WONDERFUL!
I especially like this one here.http://www.geocities.com/davidbofinger/rome.htm
Anyways, that site is WONDERFUL!
I especially like this one here.
http://www.geocities.com/davidbofinger/rome.htmNorth King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Amenhotep7 said:I especially like this one here.
I just happened to come across that, and was doodling on a world map, and came up with the below.
This is circa 600 AD, Rome is Christian, and ever expanding, it is also falling apart at the seams. At the borders, it is barbaric but fresh with economic vitality, the interior is deteriorating and falling apart, most on the bottom of the social ladder are discontented, and the empire is about to break out in open revolt.
Rome is now divided into four "mini empires" ruled by "Caesars". The four are The North (Nordicum) of Gaul, Germania, Gotia, and Britannia, the West (Africa) ruled from Tingis, the Near East (Byzantium) ruled from Byzantium, and the Far East (Babylonia), ruled from Babylon.
New provinces added to the Empire since the divergence point are Parthia, Persia, Armenia, Mesopotamia, Arabia Inferior, Nubia, Berberia, Mauritania Berberia, Britannia, Pictia, Hibernia, Germania, Allemania, Burgundia, Quadia, Anglia, Vandalia, Jutia, Gotia, Sarmatia, Dacia, Scythia, and Bosporia.
The empire's neighbors are the remnants of the Huns, Bactrians, Arabia (which is about to invade the Empire as Islam), and the remaning Berbers to the South.
Attachments
Cuivienen
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2003
- Messages
- 8,011
I have an interesting, but less optimistic, future for a Rome that did not stop expanding. The year? Around 460-480.
Rome continued its expansion after its defeat by Ariminius, rather than slowing its expansion steadily down. Forces moved further north in Brittania, not conquering the whole island, but driving the Picts much further north. The Frisians and other peoples living in the modern Netherlands were subdued and brought under Roman control, as was Dacia and Sarmatia. Marcus Aurelius appointed a capable successor to the Roman throne, and the Empire never entered a period of decay in the 200s. Because the people retained faith in their Emperors (who were, indeed, more capable), the Imperial Cult remained a powerful force and Christianity was confined to the eastern reaches of the Empire.
In the early 300s, as the Parthian Empire collapsed, Rome struck hard at Mesopotamia and conquered the entire region. While the Sassanids still rose to overthrow the Parthians, they were unable to reconquer Mesopotamia from a strong, united Rome. So what went wrong?
When the Huns invaded Europe in the early 400s, the Romans marched out across the Danube to meet them head-on. In a series of battles along the Danube River, the Huns and Romans fought a war of attrition, eventually forcing the Huns to abandon all ambitions in Europe, but also weakening the Roman army considerably.
Upon the return of the armies to Rome, seeing the destruction wrought on their forces by the Huns, long-time Christian separatists in the East saw their opportunity to spurn the Empire and establish themselves as a separate nation, aloof from what they saw as the corruption of the Roman religion. Declaring the so-called "Empire of the Hellenes" (though, in fact, the Empire was mostly a Christian theocracy), the eastern Roman provinces seceded and a long, drawn-out war between polytheist Rome and Christian Hellene ensued.
After a dozne years of futile warfare, the Roman Empire, its mighty army exhausted, was forced to sign peace with the Christians, dividing the Empire at approximately the same location Diocletian divided it in real history. (Though Egypt remained Roman, despite heavy Christian influences there.) The Empire of the Hellenes, more commonly referred to as the Christian Empire, established its formal capital at Antioch, and the Archbishop of Antioch has been given the title of Archbishop of Christendom.
Immediately following the Peace of Sirmium, as the treaty was called, a rebel general in Iberia, desiring the recall the glory-days of the Old Empire, rose up against the Empire. Such rebellions were commonplace in real-Rome, but in this history, no rebellions of this sort had occurred. The Hispanian Emperor attempted first to strike out across Gaul and capture Rome, forcing the current Emperor to surrender his throne. Stopped at the Battle of Narbo, the Hispanian Emperor fled back across the mountains, which he successfully held against Roman incursion. Eventually, again fighting to a standstill, the Romans were forced to let another province go. (While the Hispanian Emperors all maintain their legitimate right to the throne of the Empire, the Romans themselves and most other nations as well regard this as simple pomp -- the Hispanians have made no further attempts to seize control, and, indeed, were quite satisfied with successfully rebelling.)
However, unable to defend many of its outer provinces, Rome was eventually forced to abandon Britannia and Africa, and, when Christian Egypt rose in rebellion, a tired Empire let it go without a fight.
The climate is warming all across Europe, and the Frankish, Langobardi, Bohemian and Anglo-Saxon peoples have settled down and established kingdoms of their own, swallowing up their neighbors (Alemannians, Burgundians, etc) to contribute to their strength.
In the east, Palaestina, oppressed by the Christian Emperors just as much as they were oppressed by the Romans, has risen in revolt for the sixth time in Roman history. While the Christians will likely quickly reconquer the province, nothing is certain. Also, the Visigoths, having established a kingdom along the shores of the Black Sea, have been slowly pushing across the Danube into the Empire of the Hellenes. The Christians have not yet retaliated, but such actions seem imminent.
Tell me if you like it! The unmentioned nations are: the Iberian Celts, the Ostrogoths and Persarmenia.
Rome continued its expansion after its defeat by Ariminius, rather than slowing its expansion steadily down. Forces moved further north in Brittania, not conquering the whole island, but driving the Picts much further north. The Frisians and other peoples living in the modern Netherlands were subdued and brought under Roman control, as was Dacia and Sarmatia. Marcus Aurelius appointed a capable successor to the Roman throne, and the Empire never entered a period of decay in the 200s. Because the people retained faith in their Emperors (who were, indeed, more capable), the Imperial Cult remained a powerful force and Christianity was confined to the eastern reaches of the Empire.
In the early 300s, as the Parthian Empire collapsed, Rome struck hard at Mesopotamia and conquered the entire region. While the Sassanids still rose to overthrow the Parthians, they were unable to reconquer Mesopotamia from a strong, united Rome. So what went wrong?
When the Huns invaded Europe in the early 400s, the Romans marched out across the Danube to meet them head-on. In a series of battles along the Danube River, the Huns and Romans fought a war of attrition, eventually forcing the Huns to abandon all ambitions in Europe, but also weakening the Roman army considerably.
Upon the return of the armies to Rome, seeing the destruction wrought on their forces by the Huns, long-time Christian separatists in the East saw their opportunity to spurn the Empire and establish themselves as a separate nation, aloof from what they saw as the corruption of the Roman religion. Declaring the so-called "Empire of the Hellenes" (though, in fact, the Empire was mostly a Christian theocracy), the eastern Roman provinces seceded and a long, drawn-out war between polytheist Rome and Christian Hellene ensued.
After a dozne years of futile warfare, the Roman Empire, its mighty army exhausted, was forced to sign peace with the Christians, dividing the Empire at approximately the same location Diocletian divided it in real history. (Though Egypt remained Roman, despite heavy Christian influences there.) The Empire of the Hellenes, more commonly referred to as the Christian Empire, established its formal capital at Antioch, and the Archbishop of Antioch has been given the title of Archbishop of Christendom.
Immediately following the Peace of Sirmium, as the treaty was called, a rebel general in Iberia, desiring the recall the glory-days of the Old Empire, rose up against the Empire. Such rebellions were commonplace in real-Rome, but in this history, no rebellions of this sort had occurred. The Hispanian Emperor attempted first to strike out across Gaul and capture Rome, forcing the current Emperor to surrender his throne. Stopped at the Battle of Narbo, the Hispanian Emperor fled back across the mountains, which he successfully held against Roman incursion. Eventually, again fighting to a standstill, the Romans were forced to let another province go. (While the Hispanian Emperors all maintain their legitimate right to the throne of the Empire, the Romans themselves and most other nations as well regard this as simple pomp -- the Hispanians have made no further attempts to seize control, and, indeed, were quite satisfied with successfully rebelling.)
However, unable to defend many of its outer provinces, Rome was eventually forced to abandon Britannia and Africa, and, when Christian Egypt rose in rebellion, a tired Empire let it go without a fight.
The climate is warming all across Europe, and the Frankish, Langobardi, Bohemian and Anglo-Saxon peoples have settled down and established kingdoms of their own, swallowing up their neighbors (Alemannians, Burgundians, etc) to contribute to their strength.
In the east, Palaestina, oppressed by the Christian Emperors just as much as they were oppressed by the Romans, has risen in revolt for the sixth time in Roman history. While the Christians will likely quickly reconquer the province, nothing is certain. Also, the Visigoths, having established a kingdom along the shores of the Black Sea, have been slowly pushing across the Danube into the Empire of the Hellenes. The Christians have not yet retaliated, but such actions seem imminent.
Tell me if you like it! The unmentioned nations are: the Iberian Celts, the Ostrogoths and Persarmenia.
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
I think it's slightly unlikely that Iberia'd be let go, considering it's so darn Romanized. But everything else checks out.
Cuivienen
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2003
- Messages
- 8,011
My whole idea was that it would be a rogue general that maybe doesn't have the approval of the people but rules anyway. Hispania would be pretty unstable and the people are still sympathetic to Rome.
(I point to the real-world Gallic Empire and Palmyrene Empire as evidence for the possibility.)
(I point to the real-world Gallic Empire and Palmyrene Empire as evidence for the possibility.)
Similar threads
- Poll
