Will AI understand that? If not then its buggy and exploitable from deifinition.Aztecs - Itzcoatl - Triple Alliance
- GainGold and
Faith from kills.
- Declarations of Friendship act as Defensive Pacts and vice versa.
Alternate Leaders for VP project thread
- Thread starter Hinin
- Start date
If I may, I would like to ask you some questions :
- Can this unique action be used by the AI and, if yes, how (I'm interested by the logic behind it) ?
- Since VP gives leaders a set of additionnal unique lines (most notably during trade talks), what did you do for modded leaders like Victoria (did you added some things) ?
- As someone who is familiar with the code of VP, do you know if the True alternate leaders mod is compatible with it ?
- Are there modifications to the AI traits in VP and, if yes, what are they (I would like to begin doing lists of traits for the finished leader concepts) ?
Thank you in advance.
HungryForFood
Prince
When a great person is created, the AI will try to find a "directive", based on certain sets of conditions. For example, a great scientist will be on a plant directive if there's less than a certain number of academies, or they are not losing a war. Otherwise, they will go for a bulb directive. Now, since all vanilla civ 5 great people can be used to start a golden age, the directive to start the golden age is still in the DLL, so the AI can use it. It's not too difficult to add it in anyway, just need to copy the logic from great artists.
I didn't do anything actually. I assume they will use they will use the default line unless a custom one is set.
I think that mod is just a UI mod, ie lua only. If that's the case, it is compatible. From reading the thread, you just need to add an entry to a custom table used by that mod.
Not sure what you're referring to when talking about traits?
I'm not that clear on how the AI works, since I don't really mess with it much (too complex!). Read the comments here (3rd comment onwards), should give you a rough idea of the VP AI.
An example with vanilla Napoleon.
Spoiler Napoleon trait :
What I was asking is if there was traits added by VP (although it has been said that flavors are less important in VP, so adding traits may have been useless).
HungryForFood
Prince
Ah, those would be the flavours. If you are asking about new flavours, then I don't think there are any.
Well, the "semi-official" civilization wiki says otherwise, but I know that we call this flavour here.
Thanks for your answer.
HungryForFood
Prince
I don't think there are any that are new. I missed the last few words, I was distracted...Well, the "semi-official" civilization wiki says otherwise, but I know that we call this flavour here.
Thanks for your answer.
pineappledan
Deity
A thought:
Since the current Japan UA triggers on GG/GA birth, why not keep that as the thing that is constant with Japan, instead of the bonuses to defense buildings? In case people are worried about the power of GAs.
Another possibility, since the Meiji restoration was about rapid technological advance more than military achievement, why not have the GAs triggered by each new era instead?
My vote would be the GA on new era. I don’t like the gg/ga birth trigger, since it’s the exact same as the Prussia mod, and I don’t think tilting Meiji militaristic is necessary.
Since the current Japan UA triggers on GG/GA birth, why not keep that as the thing that is constant with Japan, instead of the bonuses to defense buildings? In case people are worried about the power of GAs.
Another possibility, since the Meiji restoration was about rapid technological advance more than military achievement, why not have the GAs triggered by each new era instead?
My vote would be the GA on new era. I don’t like the gg/ga birth trigger, since it’s the exact same as the Prussia mod, and I don’t think tilting Meiji militaristic is necessary.
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KaoticKanine
Warlord
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- 106
Okay, so since the Great Peacemaker does work as an Alternate Leader, here is a more 'professional' description alongside the leader's behavior lol
I've also been thinking up a City-State/Tribute oriented Aztec Alt Leader, but I'll only unveil that if you guys think it okay since three Alt Leaders might be too much
In the meantime, thoughts on this?
Spoiler Deganawidah Iroquois :
I've also been thinking up a City-State/Tribute oriented Aztec Alt Leader, but I'll only unveil that if you guys think it okay since three Alt Leaders might be too much
In the meantime, thoughts on this?
pineappledan
Deity
I like the concept, but it's far too strong, and has too many components. It wouldn't fit in a UA description (3 line limit). Just having straight faith on forest/jungle/river/lake would just look like an off-brand Cernunnos Celtic pantheon.
How about this?
Iroquois - Deganawidah - Great Law of Peace
- Forests and Jungles act as Roads for Units and can be used to establish
City Connections.
- Gain 15
Influence with the target City-state when you spread a religion with Missionaries, and 30 Faith when completing Diplomatic Missions, scaling with Era.
- Gain 15 Influence with all met City-States when you Expend Great Prophets.
How about this?
Iroquois - Deganawidah - Great Law of Peace
- Forests and Jungles act as Roads for Units and can be used to establish
City Connections. - Gain 15
Influence with the target City-state when you spread a religion with Missionaries, and 30 Faith when completing Diplomatic Missions, scaling with Era. - Gain 15
Influence with all met City-States when you Expend Great Prophets.
KaoticKanine
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2018
- Messages
- 106
That worksI like the concept, but it's far too strong, and has too many components. It wouldn't fit in a UA description (3 line limit). Just having straight faith on forest/jungle/river/lake would just look like an off-brand Cernunnos Celtic pantheon.
How about this?
Iroquois - Deganawidah - Great Law of Peace
- Forests and Jungles act as Roads for Units and can be used to establish
- Gain 15
- Gain 15
I was actually thinking that the "gain Faith from Forests, Jungles, Rivers, and Lakes" would be too strong since they're very common terrain, so this idea is a lot more balanced while still allowing the Iroquois to gain a Religion in time should they focus on Diplomatic Missions (those are the City State Quests, right?). Exceptional improvement to the UA 
Thanks so much
pineappledan
Deity
Diplomatic missions are the unit actions done by diplomat, great merchant and great diplomat units when they are expended in CS territory.
The thing about this UA is that, while it would be nice to have your own religion, none of this stuff would necessarily benefit more from you having your own religion, rather than being a follower of another. I don't necessarily think these bonuses are enough to be of much help for founding, but they won't hurt.
The thing about this UA is that, while it would be nice to have your own religion, none of this stuff would necessarily benefit more from you having your own religion, rather than being a follower of another. I don't necessarily think these bonuses are enough to be of much help for founding, but they won't hurt
.
KaoticKanine
Warlord
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Oh right lol Okay, so then the Iroquois would benefit a lot more from sending Great Merchants to City States than forming townsDiplomatic missions are the unit actions done by diplomat, great merchant and great diplomat units when they are expended in CS territory.
The thing about this UA is that, while it would be nice to have your own religion, none of this stuff would necessarily benefit more from you having your own religion, rather than being a follower of another. I don't necessarily think these bonuses are enough to be of much help for founding, but they won't hurt
Essentially rewarding getting the Stonehenge lol)
That's true
And even then, managing to found a Religion in time is never an ordeal for me. Just build Shrines first and it's guaranteed. though I've been playing Warlord at most, so that probably has something to do with it lol What can I say? Not advanced enough for harder difficulties
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Iroquois - Deganawidah - Great Law of Peace
- Forests and Jungles act as Roads for Units and can be used to establish
- Gain 15
- Gain 15
The problem I have with this is that the third bonus has the same effect has the second bonus Frederick I Barbarossa has (When conquering a city for the first time, gain Influence with all met CStates) : conquering cities require a lot more efforts than simply accumulating faith, so there should be conditions for this gain of Influence. I also consider the second bonus to be far too powerful (compare it with what Louis IX has)...
All in all, I have a new proposition.
Spoiler Deganawidah Iroquois :
Also, there is actually at a minimum a 4 lines limit for the UA (see Boudicca's UA).
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KaoticKanine
Warlord
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That seems like a good compromise for the UA. I was initially going to object to the "gain Influence if Religion is City-State majority" since Missionaries are only really needed to introduce/convert Cities to a Religion, otherwise Inquisitors are to be sent to keep your Religion the majority. But then I realized that you can only use Missionaries so much, so this keeps them relevant in the game longer once all City-States within reach are converted lol So this gets my approvalThe problem I have with this is that the third bonus has the same effect has the second bonus Frederick I Barbarossa has (When conquering a city for the first time, gain Influence with all met CStates) : conquering cities require a lot more efforts than simply accumulating faith, so there should be conditions for this gain of Influence. I also consider the second bonus to be far too powerful (compare it with what Louis IX has)...
All in all, I have a new proposition.
Spoiler Deganawidah Iroquois :
Also, there is actually at a minimum a 4 lines limit for the UA (see Boudicca's UA).
HungryForFood
Prince
I initially liked the idea, but after some thought, I think it would make Meiji snowball super hard. (trigger super GA > get ahead in tech > get eras faster > trigger super GA)
Again, from experience with Prussia, free GAs don't increase the next GA cost, making permanent GAs far too easy. So, I think we should go for Golden Age Points instead.
I do like the idea of moving away from a militaristic UA.
How about this: Gain +4 Golden Age Points, scaling with era, in the Capital for each tech behind the tech leader, in addition to the super GA.
This idea of having a bonus which depends on the advance of another player have already been proposed by pineappledan, if I remember well. At that time, I was against it... but the idea has grown on me since, and I also think it is still better than a straight up "free GA under condition X", so I'll say that I like the idea and that I agree with its implementation (even if you don't really need my approval to implement things, since you are doing the hard work, and I'm only an armchair critic).
With this decided, why not still using the GA action of the Daimyo by giving it to the Prussian generals (maybe the GA could be quite short initially, but it would scale with the number of Citadels you control ?).
Also, after returning to Tokugawa Ieyasu once more, I have come to the conclusion that my idea for his UA is simply too complex, hard to balance and exploitable, so I'll scrap it.
However, that doesn't mean that I've given up on Ieyasu as a leader. My new idea is to give him the Shogunate UA of Nobunaga, and give a new UA to Nobunaga (a UA which reflects his ruthlessness and the total chaos that was the Sengoku-jidai), so I'll work on this.
Edit : Early concept
Spoiler Oda Nobunaga Japan :
Culture and
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KaoticKanine
Warlord
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- 106
I'm not too sure if changing an existing leader's UA would go over well with others, though I think this is a worthy change. Oda was a notoriously brutal warlord, albeit due to the times he was living in, and specifically unified Japan by conquering every single region. Heck, looking through his history, he was basically the Genghis Khan of Japan! Though not nearly as awesome as Temujin himself lol So Oda Nobunaga's UA rewarding the conquest of cities and using Generals to found new ones is most fitting for him and sounds fun to play. As a small suggestion, maybe conquering Cities should reward GAdmiral points as well since Naval Units are a must for conquering coastal/island Cities. Or would that be too much?Also, after returning to Tokugawa Ieyasu once more, I have come to the conclusion that my idea for his UA is simply too complex, hard to balance and exploitable, so I'll scrap it.
However, that doesn't mean that I've given up on Ieyasu as a leader. My new idea is to give him the Shogunate UA of Nobunaga, and give a new UA to Nobunaga (a UA which reflects his ruthlessness and the total chaos that was the Sengoku-jidai), so I'll work on this.
Edit : Early concept
Spoiler Oda Nobunaga Japan :
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Well, Alexander also has gained a new UA (Pericles gaining the Hellenic League UA). This kind of change happen when there is a discrepancy between the leader and the civilization (explained by the fact that Gazebo had only access to one leader to represent a civilization, although Gustavus Adolphus is an exception, since his UA is quite representative of his reign).
Since the founded cities will have all defense/military training buildings available, they will gain culture and faith immediatly, so their territory will expend fast, and they'll have a lot of CS and HP. They can be used in a lot of ways :
- they can provide a good gathering point for your forces, and can resist assaults if needed, so putting them just next to rival territory can be useful just before declaring war
- controlling chock points far away from your territory becomes much easier (a newly founded city normally takes some time to build the necessary infrastructures to be able to resist an attack, and Citadels must be built in or adjacent to your territory)
- you can resettle the territory of enemy city you just razed so that you can benefit from defensive positions while also gaining war score (you'll also don't have to build the Courthouse to have a useful city)
- mixed with Goddess of Protection (which is a must-have when playing Japan anyway), this bonus is especially powerful
This bonus is originally a modification of an early concept for a unique Japanese GGeneral for the 3/4 UC modmod : in this concept, the Daimyo was able to found Citadels with bonus yields (a reference to the Japanese feudal system). The bonus yields on Forts/Citadels has been transferred to Hadrian, and Oda would keep the idea of having GGenerals capable of creating self-sustaining defense structures (cities have upsides sure, but they also increase the cost of policies and technologies and decrease tourism, so the bonus can be more detrimental than beneficial if not used well).
I have two problems with that :
- First, if GAdmiral points are added, then, for balance reasons, the amount of GGeneral points gained won't be very important, and it will have quite a detrimental effect on the usefulness of the second bonus.
- Second, Japan at this time wasn't a naval power. After its unification, it tried to mount a naval invasion and was vanquished by Korea, and then cut itself from the world for 250 years. Japan only became a naval power after the Meiji Reformation.
