Alternate reagent methods

[KillerClowns]

Reagents are not a particularly common resource, and on certain types of smaller maps, there is a very real chance that they won't appear at all. I have had this happen several times, most recently (and frustratingly) when attempting a Balseraph-summoning tactic with Keelyn. This is difficult when there are no reagents with which to train summoners. I suggest alternate ways to get reagents, along with finding them and building a plantation:
1. A Great Sage building (reagent conservatory or something) that a single source of reagents.
2. A wonder that generates several reagents. (Sort of like the Mines of Gal-Dur.)
3. A small wonder that generates a singe source of reagents, requiring a good number of Mages' Guilds.
Any of these ideas look good? Or any other ideas?

 

[Sureshot]

like the mages guild idea.. theres no reagents on inland sea anymore i think, no matter what the size.

but ideally we'd just get a check that adds a few reagents to maps

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Since FFH needs more wonders, a reagent wonder would be good. I'd like it to require mage guilds and Etheral Call, or alternativley as an Ashen Veil wonder.

 

[Love]

c'me on, its the same thing whith incense...

 

[eerr]

how about a civic that allows building mages without reagents?

 

[Sureshot]

im still finding tons of incense on inland sea maps, usually two or so around my start spot, but never reagents

 

[MrUnderhill]

I agree, there needs to be an alternative. One of the things I hate about vanilla civ is that the map is often your worst enemy. I tend to be a slow expander and I always used to come up short of iron or copper, and thus I'd end up stuck with building catapults and maybe longbowmen up until the Industrial Age. FFH fixed this for the most part with the weapon promotions (and the Mines of Gal-dur: Best. Wonder. Ever.), but there's still no solution for priests or mages.

Here's my solution:
1) Double the cost of all priest units (and perhaps adepts), then have incense (or gems or reagents or what have you) halve the cost instead of be a requirement. Also, get rid of the reagents requirement for Summoners and Archmages; the level requirement is enough, I think.

2) For the priests, have them require a mana node that corresponds to their religion. (ex. Ritualists need entropy, Confessors require law, etc.) This should be no problem for the Holy City owner, as each shrine already gives out that mana type. Certain civs, like the Bannor or Lanun, wouldn't have any trouble, either, because they get the required mana from their palace. Everyone else can either waste a node for the required mana (mana nodes tend to be a lot more common than reagents) or trade with another civ.

 

[Sarisin]

I'd like to see something similar to the 'gifts' of gold, copper, gems, etc. you get in mines. Maybe tie it in with one of the mana types.

I think this would be useful for insense and reagents as there are no 'surprise' ways to get them like gems, for example.

 

[seZereth]

i dont think getting rid of reagents requirement is the right way. It adds a high strategic value to the resource.
So, ensuring it exists on the map is the better way i think.

 

[kumquatelvis]

i dont think getting rid of reagents requirement is the right way. It adds a high strategic value to the resource.
So, ensuring it exists on the map is the better way i think.

Well, sure, if there is at least one on the map. Having none at all, however, is not very strategic.

 

[Calavente]

oh a bit more, maybe 2 in the map at least... else, with 1, there could be only 1 super magic civ..
but requiring it is cool imo as if you want to go toward mage you have to spend money to explore, and then colonize or conquere the reagant spot... your aims should always influence your strategy... and if you can't have it, maybe you should change your objective, maybe try a line (mounted, archery...cleric that you (I) are not used to play with this civ, and satisfying yourself with mage and conjurers...)
but like mithril, there should always be 1 or 2 in the map...

 

[Caradoc]

Unless you are thinking of a National Wonder, having a wonder that gives reagents would not be any better than making reagents a little more plentiful. Furthermore, I wouldn't say making reagents would be sufficiently wonder-ful to justify that status.

And if you are going to start making resource generating buildings, why stop there? Copper, Iron, Mithril, Incense, and Gems all have similar dependencies.

 

[vale]

The issue is that those other resources are vastly more common than reagents. I never thought I would be able to say this, but i just finished a game on a huge fractal map in which there were no reagents. It didn't hurt me too much since I knew relatively early that there weren't any on my continent and planned around it. I checked after my victory in world builder and found that there weren't any anywhere in the world. I would say thats pretty crazy.

 

[wilboman]

Hmmm... Maybe we could stick in a reagent-generating guild?

 

[Demus]

i'm not sure about this, but could it be that the map generator has different settings for different types of resources? (food, happiness, calender, strategic etc.) If that's the case, then changing the setting for reagents from spices to an ivory-type setting for example(which is the only BtS res. which both adds happiness/health and a new unit as far as i know). If this isn't the case, ignore this post

 

[nealhunt]

Since Shadow is supposed to include Guilds, one quick and easy thing would be to have one of the guilds (mage/alchemist/whatever) provide reagents in the same way that the corps in BTS can provide oil or aluminum.

 

[KillerClowns]

I hadn't thought of that, nealhunt. I rather like the idea, though. I used Aluminium Co. or Standard Ethanol for resources, so it hadn't occurred to me. Incense could be converted into reagents and a science bonus to boot. It would work a lot better then any of my ideas, IMHO. Don't know what sort of guild would do it. The Alchemist's guild might already be set to use common metals and make money and culture (Civilized Jewelers style), but the Mage's Guild would work, unless the Powers That Be already have a better idea.

 

[jprc]

I like the idea. But we can go a little further:
Discover "Alchemy" as a requirement, and create 1 reagent in exchange of some other resources you own that will be removed from the game.

Example: if you want your Palace to supply 1 reagent, it consumes 1 iron + 1 dye + 1 fish + 1 cow/pig (or anything else). What is important is to use several resources from different families, for increasing the strategic value of the decision...

The problem would be to have the AI integrating this and going or not for a reagent alchemy...