Alternative Leaders of Egypt (Mod Potential)

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

In addition to Cleopatra. Who else do you think fit to lead Egypt as Alternative leaders?
- Ramses II
- Nefereti
- "The Scorpion King"
- Gamal Abdel Nasser (Is he really 'Egyptian'? But modern national rhetotics often referred to him as 'The First True Egyptian Leader since the Antiquity'. He did restore Egypt as regional powers of its own glory rather than Ottoman or British vassallage/protectorate and did build Aswan Dam (A grand project he or many did consider to be one of many Wonders of Egypt)

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

1. Rameses II and Nefertiti are good choices, although Hatshepsut would be a better choice than Nefertiti, IMO.
2. No to characters invented by movies.
3. If we can keep it not modern, then let's keep it not modern.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Scorpion King already looks like he came from a game

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I vote for Akhenaten.
He hasn’t been in the game before and represents Ancient Egypt.

Plus would have religious, cultural and infrastructure bonuses.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

1. Rameses II and Nefertiti are good choices, although Hatshepsut would be a better choice than Nefertiti, IMO.
2. No to characters invented by movies.
3. If we can keep it not modern, then let's keep it not modern.

1. I knew how great Ramses II was (His Civ5 intro to other player is that 'I'm Ramses the God, possibly he might be a Pharaoh referred in Bible during Exodus where Moses was told (by God, through Mikayil ) to leave Egypt into 'The Promised Land'). but Hatshepsut is not what I know of much beyond that a person is woman. What made her a better choice that Nefertiti?
2. Is 'Scorpion King' totally fictional? while 'The Mummy' (90s, and later Tom Cruise's one which he later became a kind of superhero and an evil queen replace Imhotep (whom were fictionalized by Hollywood as a villain, historically he was very different)
I can't remember who led Egypt in Civ4 beyond that the leader is woman with tan skin.
And who actually is he? is he really that great or did the History of Old Egypt is very very blurry because Egypt itself was a very very ancient empire (or series of empires with some 50-60 Ruling Dynasties incuding the Nubians one) ??
3. So 'Modern' Egypt shouldn't be presented in Civ AT ALL? because they'd long since abandonded Old Egypt Ways especially with Muslim Arabian Conquests? (Which. ironically Saladin seat is Cairo, capitol of modern Egypt and i'm not sure if The Great Pyramid of Giza is visible behind this city too?
Interesting enough.
- Ramses in Civ5 spoke Egyptian Arab.
- Cleopatra in Civ6 speaks Akkadian (She actually was a Greek or Macedonian, Egypt of her time had already hellenized)
I'm still convinced that Nasser should be alternate choice except you didn't feel alright to see Egypt is led by a Leader who dressed in a Military Officier uniform derived from British Army (or red beret) rather than in Pharaoh's regalia.

^ Actually I like Nasser in Time Magazine Cover. To the left represents Islam (Mameluke saber is Arabian swords, Egyptians of the Old used Khopesh which looked much more archaic as it was evolved from half moon battle axes). To the right. Royal Guard with SKS Semiautomatic Karabin and knife bayonet attached.

I'm not sure whether did @Gedemo did make Nasser Egypt leader mod yet?

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I vote for Akhenaten.
He hasn’t been in the game before and represents Ancient Egypt.

Plus would have religious, cultural and infrastructure bonuses.

Is he the first person to be referred to as 'Pharaoh'?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Is he the first person to be referred to as 'Pharaoh'?

No he wasn't the first. Actually his wife was Nefertiti and they would play similar.

3. So 'Modern' Egypt shouldn't be presented in Civ AT ALL? because they'd long since abandonded Old Egypt Ways especially with Muslim Arabian Conquests? (Which. ironically Saladin seat is Cairo, capitol of modern Egypt and i'm not sure if The Great Pyramid of Giza is visible behind this city too?
Interesting enough.
- Ramses in Civ5 spoke Egyptian Arab.
- Cleopatra in Civ6 speaks Akkadian (She actually was a Greek or Macedonian, Egypt of her time had already hellenized)
I'm still convinced that Nasser should be alternate choice except you didn't feel alright to see Egypt is led by a Leader who dressed in a Military Officier uniform derived from British Army (or red beret) rather than in Pharaoh's regalia.

^ Actually I like Nasser in Time Magazine Cover. To the left represents Islam (Mameluke saber is Arabian swords, Egyptians of the Old used Khopesh which looked much more archaic as it was evolved from half moon battle axes). To the right. Royal Guard with SKS Semiautomatic Karabin and knife bayonet attached.

I also wouldn't pick any Egyptian leader after Cleopatra. Modern Egypt is part of the Islamic world which is what Arabia under Saladin represents.

 

[Zaarin]

I second Akhenaten. While Nefertiti has a very recognizable face thanks to her famous bust, honestly there's no reason to choose her when Hatshepsut, Twosret, and Sobekneferu exist--and even the latter two are eclipsed by Hatshepsut, one of Egypt's best pharaohs without reference to sex.

Modern Egypt is part of the Islamic world which is what Arabia under Saladin represents.

I'm all for Balkanizing the Islamic world, but definitely no to Nasser for Egypt, Saddam Hussein for Babylon/Sumer/Assyria, Ayatollah Khomeini (or Reza Pahlavi, for that matter) for Persia, Mussolini for Rome, or any other nationalist-driven attempt to claim an ancient empire as a nationalist heritage.

Cleopatra in Civ6 speaks Akkadian (She actually was a Greek or Macedonian, Egypt of her time had already hellenized)

Cleopatra speaks Middle Egyptian in Civ6. The real Cleopatra's first language was Greek, but she also learned Coptic, Aramaic, and Latin, as well. It's possible she also learned Middle Egyptian which was a literary and liturgical language among the Copts at that time. TBH I wish Cleopatra would code switch between Greek and Coptic like CdM, Gandhi, and Laurier do with their respective languages.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm all for Balkanizing the Islamic world, but definitely no to Nasser for Egypt, Saddam Hussein for Babylon/Sumer/Assyria, Ayatollah Khomeini (or Reza Pahlavi, for that matter) for Persia, Mussolini for Rome, or any other nationalist-driven attempt to claim an ancient empire as a nationalist heritage.

Well yes there are exceptions obviously like a more Berber influenced Morocco civ, like in Civ 5. But my point still stands that a Nasser lead Egypt is more similar to Saladin's Arabia, then it is to Ancient Egypt.
And of course he's too modern for my liking.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I'm all for Balkanizing the Islamic world, but definitely no to Nasser for Egypt.
.

I understood logics behind Saddam Hussen shouldn't lead Babilons or Sumers. but why Nasser leading Egypt is No Kay? Is it because Egypt's "branding" has never been anywhere past Cleopatra VII ?

 

[Uberfrog]

Rameses II is clearly a good choice, but is well-worn territory. There are plenty of pharaohs who haven't been featured before. For a similar conquest/builder Egypt you could have Thutmose III. More straightforward builders could be Djoser or Amenhotep III. Akhenaten is an interesting choice that breaks the mould.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

More straightforward builders could be Djoser or Amenhotep III.

I originally would have went with Djoser, but when Imhotep showed up as a Great Engineer, I decided he would feel kind of bland without Imhotep as a unique governor for him.

 

[Uberfrog]

I originally would have went with Djoser, but when Imhotep showed up as a Great Engineer, I decided he would feel kind of bland without Imhotep as a unique governor for him.

There’s nothing stopping a rename of the Great Engineer. Imhotep is a poor choice for GE anyway as there’s no real way of getting engineers in the Ancient era. It’s very odd seeing him as a Medieval GE.

 

[Zaarin]

I understood logics behind Saddam Hussen shouldn't lead Babilons or Sumers. but why Nasser leading Egypt is No Kay? Is it because Egypt's "branding" has never been anywhere past Cleopatra VII ?

Just because the Islamic Republic of Egypt calls itself Egypt does not mean it's the same civilization as that which was ruled by the Pharaohs 3,000 years ago. Really, it's the same situation: Saddam Hussein called himself the new Nebuchadnezzar and attempted to rebuild the city of Babylon (before settling on a summer palace ). Nasser doesn't get the same kind of flack for his behavior because he was generally less loathsome of a human being, but that still doesn't justify indulging his nationalist fantasies. The Islamic Republic of Egypt is not Kemet.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ It turned out that HUMANKIND did 'crazy' enough to include Nasserite Egypt (Though there's no 'God King Leader' concept in that setting however). They even had the so called 'Free Officiers' whom actaully Nasser's driving force behind revolution.

https://humankind.fandom.com/wiki/Free_Officers

 

[Zaarin]

It turned out that HUMANKIND did 'crazy' enough to include Nasserite Egypt (Though there's no 'God King Leader' concept in that setting however). They even had the so called 'Free Officiers' whom actaully Nasser's driving force behind revolution.

I think you misunderstood my position. I'm not intrinsically opposed to including the Arab Republic of Egypt (or the Kingdom of Egypt or the Mamluk Sultanate), just not as an alternate leader to Pharaonic Egypt. Including the Arab Republic of Egypt in Humankind makes perfect sense.

 

[Aurelesk]

I think you misunderstood my position. I'm not intrinsically opposed to including the Arab Republic of Egypt (or the Kingdom of Egypt or the Mamluk Sultanate), just not as an alternate leader to Pharaonic Egypt. Including the Arab Republic of Egypt in Humankind makes perfect sense.

I took a look about their abilities:

• Orientation: Aesthete. In Civilization VI, it would probably translate to a cultural or touristic civilization.
• Trait: Valley of Kings. We know only the name, which is linked to rock-cut tombs excavated for the pharaohs.
• Emblematic Quarter: Archaeological Dig. Same as previously.

So far, all of their abilities are showing neither the Arabic side of contemporary Egypt, nor its Muslim side. It is more about capitalizing the wonder of the past and the sudden interest of western civilization about "Egyptology" after Napoleon campaign. Well, it is better than depicting actual groups actively destroying the relics of the past just for short-sighted ideological purposes.

I believe the Civilization's franchise has a problem to depict some civilizations due to either their longevity (China), their eventful past (France) or puzzled influence (HRE-to-Germany including Austria to Prussia) or civilizations without any real state (many native american, pre-unification Italy...).

 

[Zaarin]

So far, all of their abilities are showing neither the Arabic side of contemporary Egypt, nor its Muslim side. It is more about capitalizing the wonder of the past and the sudden interest of western civilization about "Egyptology" after Napoleon campaign.

TBH I'd say Egyptology is the source of a lot of Egypt's geopolitical influence so that makes sense to me personally. Plus Egypt is going to be less controversial than some of the region's other major players in modern times. Like, say, Iraq.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

TBH I'd say Egyptology is the source of a lot of Egypt's geopolitical influence so that makes sense to me personally. Plus Egypt is going to be less controversial than some of the region's other major players in modern times. Like, say, Iraq.

Surprised to say the least that it is modern Egypt for the Middle East. I would have thought of the Saudis which is still less controversial than most.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Surprised to say the least that it is modern Egypt for the Middle East. I would have thought of the Saudis which is still less controversial than most.

Ability: Oil.

 

[Zaarin]

Surprised to say the least that it is modern Egypt for the Middle East. I would have thought of the Saudis which is still less controversial than most.

I think 9/11 made Saudi Arabia a very unlikely choice, even if the Saudi government has been more or less friendly with the West--emphasis on "more or less." TBH if I were picking the modern Middle East's representative I might have gone with Jordan as the most stable polity in the region, but it doesn't really have a standout ability or EQ like Egypt does.