Alternative Map for DOC

I see Edinburgh north of the river. I know it's south of the firth but it works better with the map.
 
I see Edinburgh far far away from the river, which is reserved exclusively for Watermills.
 
BarbarianX said:
I think Cornwall, or just the far western tile can be move 1S, should make it a bit closer to the actual shape.
Click to expand...
Like this?
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0280.JPG

I'm not sure. Cornwall is weird anyway because no conceivable city can reach it.
 
Well I mean you could always just plop a Plymouth there like currently, which players are likely to do anyway for the extra core population.
 
Cornwall should probably not be in the English core anyway ...
 
As you might have guessed, I am currently making small adjustments to the map based on all the discussion that happened in this thread. I have reviewed about half my notes but mostly found that Bautos had already addressed them or I also did not agree.

As for the British Isles, I eventually agreed with Bautos's positioning of Ireland as well. So here's the final outcome:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0282.JPG


I also changed the course of the Mekong a bit and added the Tonle Sap as a lake:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0281.JPG


For Ethiopia, I turned much of the highlands into grassland and added wheat:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0283.JPG


Something I'm not entirely sure about: tried my hand at the Great Lakes system and moved Lake Superior 1W so that Huron touches it and Michigan diagonally. I kind of wish it'd be possible to make Lake Michigan three tiles long because it looks too small as it is. Unfortunately without diagonal lake connections that seems to be impossible, but maybe someone has an idea.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0284.JPG


Another thing I have been thinking about:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0285.JPG

It would be great if the Nile was a little less cramped, especially to facilitate a Nubian civ between Egypt and Ethiopia at some point, but I'm not sure how to achieve it and whether it should involve moving the Ethiopian highlands south to accomodate it. Proposals welcome.
 
Leoreth said:
Cornwall should probably not be in the English core anyway ...
Click to expand...

Well Cornwall was always a far more integral part of the English/British realm than Scotland and Wales, so unless you're planning to take those out as well it would be kind of odd from a historical perspective.

IMO Lake Superior looked better without being moved. It just feels too close to Lake Winnipeg now (and so by extension Ontario looks too big). Can't think of any good solutions that don't end up making Lake Huron bigger than Lake Superior though.

Maybe Nubia could be expanded horizontally? No one will miss a tile or so of Sahara, but that might look a little odd.
 
Lake Huron looks rather too big now, but it's indeed difficult to do anything with the shape of the system. I think I like the original better.

By the way, I looked at Quebec in the Great Lakes screenshot and the relief looked a bit wrong to me. Here's a proposal. The river I am proposing to move is 1 tile west of the text; I am also proposing a new river to represent the Saguenay.
Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0284.JPG


EDIT: thinking about it, I would also add a lake to represent Lac-Saint-Jean at the end of the Saguenay river (so just south of where there is currently this out-of-place mountain). It's a rather significant lake in the region.
 
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Leoreth said:
Something I'm not entirely sure about: tried my hand at the Great Lakes system and moved Lake Superior 1W so that Huron touches it and Michigan diagonally. I kind of wish it'd be possible to make Lake Michigan three tiles long because it looks too small as it is. Unfortunately without diagonal lake connections that seems to be impossible, but maybe someone has an idea.
Click to expand...
The base of Lake Michigan is roughly the same latitude as the base of Lake Erie, so that's spot-on. If Lake Michigan feels too short, then we'll need to expand northward. Which means shifting Lake Superior 1N, and expanding Lake Huron by an extra tile or two to keep the right shape while still touching Superior/Michigan diagonally. It'd make the Canadian Shield a bit smaller, but that area is mostly tundra anyway, so it should be feasible.
 
Steb said:
Lake Huron looks rather too big now, but it's indeed difficult to do anything with the shape of the system. I think I like the original better.

By the way, I looked at Quebec in the Great Lakes screenshot and the relief looked a bit wrong to me. Here's a proposal. The river I am proposing to move is 1 tile west of the text; I am also proposing a new river to represent the Saguenay.


EDIT: thinking about it, I would also add a lake to represent Lac-Saint-Jean at the end of the Saguenay river (so just south of where there is currently this out-of-place mountain). It's a rather significant lake in the region.
Click to expand...
There may be a river near Toronto, to buff this city.
 
Leoreth said:
Another thing I have been thinking about:

It would be great if the Nile was a little less cramped, especially to facilitate a Nubian civ between Egypt and Ethiopia at some point, but I'm not sure how to achieve it and whether it should involve moving the Ethiopian highlands south to accomodate it. Proposals welcome.
Click to expand...

I tried my hand at it a while back, in case you need a base for it.
Spoiler :
Captura de Tela (41).png


I'm still not entirely happy with it. Maybe adding an extra tile south for Africa, then we can extend the bend of the Nile 1S, and maybe also 1W too, giving more area for Nubia.
 
In the new map can we please make the Egyptians start at Ineb-Hedj? Within 300 years of the start date, which is only a few turns, the Old Dynasty capital was at Ineb-Hedj, and this is more or less where the Sphinx and the majority of the Pyramids were built. Furthermore, for the previous capital of Thinis (I can't really find any "Niwt-Rist" online) or Abydos (the early religious centre), either of which I assume the starting location must be based upon, the former is only legendary, as the remains of the city haven't been discovered, and the latter was not the capital.

Edit: I don't think Nekhen (or Hierakonpolis) which would be likely on the same tile as Niwt-Rist is a good starting city either for a 3000BC start, even though it had early cultural significance
 
Last edited:
Publicola said:
The base of Lake Michigan is roughly the same latitude as the base of Lake Erie, so that's spot-on. If Lake Michigan feels too short, then we'll need to expand northward. Which means shifting Lake Superior 1N, and expanding Lake Huron by an extra tile or two to keep the right shape while still touching Superior/Michigan diagonally. It'd make the Canadian Shield a bit smaller, but that area is mostly tundra anyway, so it should be feasible.
Click to expand...
My thought was to extend Lake Erie 1S as well. That's where my comment about diagonal lake connections comes from. Obviously that doesn't work. Of course with this we can still move the whole lake system 1N if we want it to take away from Canada instead of the US.

BarbarianX said:
I tried my hand at it a while back, in case you need a base for it.


I'm still not entirely happy with it. Maybe adding an extra tile south for Africa, then we can extend the bend of the Nile 1S, and maybe also 1W too, giving more area for Nubia.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I don't want to get into ugly solutions like extending a whole continent to solve a localised problem.

hnrysml said:
In the new map can we please make the Egyptians start at Ineb-Hedj? Within 300 years of the start date, which is only a few turns, the Old Dynasty capital was at Ineb-Hedj, and this is more or less where the Sphinx and the majority of the Pyramids were built. Furthermore, for the previous capital of Thinis (I can't really find any "Niwt-Rist" online) or Abydos (the early religious centre), either of which I assume the starting location must be based upon, the former is only legendary, as the remains of the city haven't been discovered, and the latter was not the capital.

Edit: I don't think Nekhen (or Hierakonpolis) which would be likely on the same tile as Niwt-Rist is a good starting city either for a 3000BC start, even though it had early cultural significance
Click to expand...
Niwt-Rst is an Egyptian name for Thebes (like Waset). But I agree that Memphis should be the starting plot and default capital.
 
Oh, of course! I didn't consider that bc of a misspelling in my searches, and because my understanding was that Thebes was not an important site until much later. Thanks for letting me know
 
BarbarianX said:
Okay, so I gave a shot and tried to make some changes to the map, here are they.

First of all, I took a shot at the Caspian Sea and the Caucasus. And I got to say, I'm pretty satisfied with the result. I basically extended it entirely 1E, added land in the southern shore (Tabaristan) and added a space for Baku, while in the east I added the Uzboy. In the Caucasus I've only moved 1N both the western- and easternmost mountain, though I'm thinking of reverting the former to a hill.



I've also did some small changes to Central Asia, namely, moved the Aral Sea 1S and adjusted the rivers accordingly. As I've alredy said, added the Uzboy, and made the Ferghana Valley a bit more pronouced. Here though, I'm thinking of moving the Issyk-Kul lake 1E to make space for Balasagun.



Minor changes to India, mostly changed the course of some rivers, added the Doab and the Kabul, also opened another way into Tibet and the Tarim Basin.



Small changes to Persia, added Tabaristan in the north and adjusted the Alborz range accordingly, also added some minor rivers both north and south. Finally, added the bay of Hormuz, though I might rework that area.



In the Middle East I've mainly adjuested river courses, added the Dead Sea (though I'm not sure if it should really be in the map), made southern Syria a bit more hilly and added more mountains in Anatolia (should be a challenge to invade it from the east now).



So with all the question about Corsica, I went with the current map and had only Sardinia, though I'm thinking of using the island feature for Corsica there. Also went ahead and added some more tiles in Italy, moved Crete 1S as I said and adjusted the Danube.



Similarly, also adjusted the Rhine to be closer to real shape, added the Meuse, Main and Ijissel rivers, also extend the Netherlands 1N in both tiles, which in turn increases the german coast.



In Egypt I've redesigned the Nile, more along it's actual course, extended the Delta 1N, removed the mountain 1N of spawn, added a mountain in Cyrenaica, and also moved the Wheat in Sudan 1E, so now all three major cities of the area in each of the eras will be able to work it (Meroe, Atbara and Khartoum, which is now settleable btw). In the corner, I've also redesigned the coast of Lybia.



Small changes to East Africa, mostly removed some marshes, making Khartoum settleable, and expanded the Somali coast 1E.



Small adjustments in Brazil, replaced some rainforests in the northeast with normal forests, since the area is drier, also place some pines in the south (Araucaria forest) and ajusted the course of the São Fransisco river.



And finally, some small river adjustments in Spain and France.



That was it, I'll upload the map with my changes tomorrow, there's also some other areas I'm thinking of fiddling with, mainly in America..
Click to expand...
You mentioned uploading the map, did you ever do so? If not, could you please? I would like to incorporate most of these changes but it is hard to reconstruct from only screenshots and vague descriptions.
 
Thanks!
 
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