Can you elaborate where you would like marshes in northern Sweden?
Alternative Map for DOC
- Thread starter Bautos42
- Start date
Darnokthemage
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2017
- Messages
- 138
I can't seem to get a screenshot that is not civilopedia, so i will tell you the cordinates that should be marshes. Northern sweden is in general just forests and marshes, it's mostly just the coast that you can do large agriculture at.
L: 76, X: 73, Y73
L: 78, X 74, Y: 74
L: 78, X 75, Y: 74
L: 80, X 76, Y: 75
L: 76, X: 73, Y73
L: 78, X 74, Y: 74
L: 78, X 75, Y: 74
L: 80, X 76, Y: 75
Last edited:
More of my map adjustments for discussion:
I mostly applied my previous plans for Italy:
I stuck to my solutions for Corsica and Sicily which were controversial at the time. I still think a diagonal connection that puts Corsica in Marseille's BFC is the best of the bad options. For Sicily, I wanted to allow a city there while still placing another wheat resource on the island, Sicily being one of the main food sources of the Roman Empire. I noticed that Bautos added a river near Naples, so I also decided to add the Arno near Florence. More rivers make Italy more prosperous and harder to invade which is both desirable. I also added a Wine in Apulia, simply because Italy only producing one wine seemed wrong. I decided to keep that additional Adriatic Sea tile (with the clam) that I previously wanted to make land, and also decided to keep the floodplains in the Po valley, but I'm not decided on either of the two.
Slight rearrangement of peaks and jungle in Vietnam:
I moved one peak 1W to make more room in the Red River delta (a candidate for grassland floodplains in my opinion, but didn't add anything yet), and also turned two rainforests south of the peaks into jungles. This makes Laos mostly impassable to armies so attacks from China/Vietnam into Thailand need to go through Cambodia, as previously requested. I also brought back a peak in South Vietnam simply because the space there allowed it.
Mediterranean islands:
Moved Crete 1S, made Cyprus a 2 tile island to bring it on par with similarly sized islands in the Mediterranean (also it helps Tyre), and turned Majorca into an island feature. It's debatable whether it deserves to be a one tile island but it's usually not worth the effort to improve. The terrain feature makes things easier.
Slight changes in Greece based on citis's suggestions:
Removed a land tile in Macedonia (probably meant to represent the Chalkidike) and adapted the river to it, then moved the Olympus to the right position. Moved iron up to Macedonia. Not sure how accurate that is, but it encourages settling Macedonia early which is desirable. Athens instead has Silver in its BFC. Historically, its silver mines were among the reasons for Athen's wealth and it supports Greece design as an early research oriented civ. It could disappear later in the game (late antiquity). I also put some Olives (hard to see, they're 1W of the Marble) to Greece proper because it felt wrong without it. Not sure if Crete then should also have Olives or rather another Wine resource. I also realise now that I removed the rivers separating the peninsula, but I think they should be in after all.
River related changes in Norway:
Had a request to move the 2 tile river 1W, but could not find any actual river that would be large enough to justify it at all. Instead, I think it is fair to represent some major fjords as rivers, not the least because it would be wrong if Norway of all places could not build hydro plants. So I added the Oslofjord, Sognefjord and Trondheimsfjord.
Mostly implemented Steb's suggestions for Quebec:
Slight river changes and switching some hills/flatlands.
Baltic Sea:
Aland is now an island feature, moved islands closer to Stockholm to represent the skärgard, moved the Fish south so northern Swedish cities will not benefit from it.
I mostly applied my previous plans for Italy:
Spoiler :
I stuck to my solutions for Corsica and Sicily which were controversial at the time. I still think a diagonal connection that puts Corsica in Marseille's BFC is the best of the bad options. For Sicily, I wanted to allow a city there while still placing another wheat resource on the island, Sicily being one of the main food sources of the Roman Empire. I noticed that Bautos added a river near Naples, so I also decided to add the Arno near Florence. More rivers make Italy more prosperous and harder to invade which is both desirable. I also added a Wine in Apulia, simply because Italy only producing one wine seemed wrong. I decided to keep that additional Adriatic Sea tile (with the clam) that I previously wanted to make land, and also decided to keep the floodplains in the Po valley, but I'm not decided on either of the two.
Slight rearrangement of peaks and jungle in Vietnam:
Spoiler :
I moved one peak 1W to make more room in the Red River delta (a candidate for grassland floodplains in my opinion, but didn't add anything yet), and also turned two rainforests south of the peaks into jungles. This makes Laos mostly impassable to armies so attacks from China/Vietnam into Thailand need to go through Cambodia, as previously requested. I also brought back a peak in South Vietnam simply because the space there allowed it.
Mediterranean islands:
Spoiler :
Moved Crete 1S, made Cyprus a 2 tile island to bring it on par with similarly sized islands in the Mediterranean (also it helps Tyre), and turned Majorca into an island feature. It's debatable whether it deserves to be a one tile island but it's usually not worth the effort to improve. The terrain feature makes things easier.
Slight changes in Greece based on citis's suggestions:
Spoiler :
Removed a land tile in Macedonia (probably meant to represent the Chalkidike) and adapted the river to it, then moved the Olympus to the right position. Moved iron up to Macedonia. Not sure how accurate that is, but it encourages settling Macedonia early which is desirable. Athens instead has Silver in its BFC. Historically, its silver mines were among the reasons for Athen's wealth and it supports Greece design as an early research oriented civ. It could disappear later in the game (late antiquity). I also put some Olives (hard to see, they're 1W of the Marble) to Greece proper because it felt wrong without it. Not sure if Crete then should also have Olives or rather another Wine resource. I also realise now that I removed the rivers separating the peninsula, but I think they should be in after all.
River related changes in Norway:
Spoiler :
Had a request to move the 2 tile river 1W, but could not find any actual river that would be large enough to justify it at all. Instead, I think it is fair to represent some major fjords as rivers, not the least because it would be wrong if Norway of all places could not build hydro plants. So I added the Oslofjord, Sognefjord and Trondheimsfjord.
Mostly implemented Steb's suggestions for Quebec:
Spoiler :
Slight river changes and switching some hills/flatlands.
Baltic Sea:
Spoiler :
Aland is now an island feature, moved islands closer to Stockholm to represent the skärgard, moved the Fish south so northern Swedish cities will not benefit from it.
Temujin8k
Fluyts, Grand Vizier of Your Mind
Looks great! I think the tile where the Vietnam peak originally was is a much more accurate spot for Hanoi. Also, it allows more space with Da Nang which can be 1NW of the South Vietnam peak.
I feel a bit sad about Greece, though. Bye, Thessalonica! :'( (Kidding.)
I feel a bit sad about Greece, though. Bye, Thessalonica! :'( (Kidding.)
Agreed, that was the intention. Hanoi looked wrong with the probably intended location with the previous peak configuration.
What do you mean by this? Thessaloniki is still meant to be encouraged, more specifically 1S of the iron.
ales_
Heir
The Greek river is present on the Mediterranean screenshot.
LikeNothing
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2016
- Messages
- 117
Now that Grassland - Flood Plains and Desert - Flood Plains are widespread, will there be widespread Plains - Flood Plains too?
Yeah, that is because I created those maps in the sequence they were presented here. So in that screenshot I hadn't touched Greece yet. All screenshots contain the changed from all previous steps.
I think we already had that in the old map, in the Mexican highlands. I wouldn't say they are widespread though. They are still a crutch and I would like to avoid them, which is why I'm not sure about them in Italy (especially because the ecosystem there does justify it at all). In the Gangetic plain all floodplains have been removed, but I could imagine them in the river delta itself. Once more major map changes are settled I will review that kind of thing.
Okay, here's more.
France:
Only moved resources around:
- Wine from central France to Burgundy
- Sheep from Alsace to the Pyrenees
- Aluminium from the Massif Central to the mouth of the Rhone
- Iron from Switzerland to Lorraine
- added Coal in Alsace (France should not have to rely on the Belgian coal for Industrialisation and the importance of the region for heavy industry should be represented)
Sweden:
Added marshes in the north as suggested.
East Africa:
Added grasslands in the more temperate highlands around Lake Victoria and Tanganyika, some coffee and cotton. Additional ivory and gold in Rhodesia.
West Africa:
Ported over the changes I made to the region (which was apparently after this map was first created, didn't realise it has been so long), including additional golds and further bent of the Niger into the desert. I also decided to remove Lake Volta and have the river terminate into the ocean instead.
Nile:
Not the planned changes to the course of the river, but I added cotton to Lower Egypt and Nubia.
I also added Camels all over the map in the same locations they are in the previous map.
This only leaves two major things to do: the proposal by Jules Auburn which adds a column to Anatolia and Eastern Europe, and BarbarianX's set of suggestions. I put off the former because it's the largest effort to implement, and the latter because it partially touches the same areas. I think I'll be done with that some time over the weekend.
France:
Spoiler :
Only moved resources around:
- Wine from central France to Burgundy
- Sheep from Alsace to the Pyrenees
- Aluminium from the Massif Central to the mouth of the Rhone
- Iron from Switzerland to Lorraine
- added Coal in Alsace (France should not have to rely on the Belgian coal for Industrialisation and the importance of the region for heavy industry should be represented)
Sweden:
Spoiler :
Added marshes in the north as suggested.
East Africa:
Spoiler :
Added grasslands in the more temperate highlands around Lake Victoria and Tanganyika, some coffee and cotton. Additional ivory and gold in Rhodesia.
West Africa:
Spoiler :
Ported over the changes I made to the region (which was apparently after this map was first created, didn't realise it has been so long), including additional golds and further bent of the Niger into the desert. I also decided to remove Lake Volta and have the river terminate into the ocean instead.
Nile:
Spoiler :
Not the planned changes to the course of the river, but I added cotton to Lower Egypt and Nubia.
I also added Camels all over the map in the same locations they are in the previous map.
This only leaves two major things to do: the proposal by Jules Auburn which adds a column to Anatolia and Eastern Europe, and BarbarianX's set of suggestions. I put off the former because it's the largest effort to implement, and the latter because it partially touches the same areas. I think I'll be done with that some time over the weekend.
ozqar
King
Some thoughts:
- Maybe you can add an extra row North of the Nile delta to give more space to Egypt (similar to Barbarian X's proposal)
- For Vietnam, the peak in the south feels awkward - the region is hilly, but the main transportation routes are along the coast and the peak disrupts that. I don't think the region needs mountains, hills would fit better, but if that peak must be there, then it might be better to place it 1 tile W.
- Not sure if these have flood plains, but consider adding them for the Mekong and Red River deltas, the central range of the Dnieper, the mouth of the Parana and the Yellow River (although not sure if the delta or the central part) - all of these are huge grain producing regions
- Looking at Finland (but this would also help Canada and some other regions), it looks a bit weird with the huge lakes there. Finland (and Canada) has thousands and thousands of very small lakes - maybe there could be a new terrain feature representing this, so the tiles can remain plains or grasslands and be dotted with some lakes on top giving freshwater and some other benefits?
Really excited about how the whole map is shaping up
- Maybe you can add an extra row North of the Nile delta to give more space to Egypt (similar to Barbarian X's proposal)
- For Vietnam, the peak in the south feels awkward - the region is hilly, but the main transportation routes are along the coast and the peak disrupts that. I don't think the region needs mountains, hills would fit better, but if that peak must be there, then it might be better to place it 1 tile W.
- Not sure if these have flood plains, but consider adding them for the Mekong and Red River deltas, the central range of the Dnieper, the mouth of the Parana and the Yellow River (although not sure if the delta or the central part) - all of these are huge grain producing regions
- Looking at Finland (but this would also help Canada and some other regions), it looks a bit weird with the huge lakes there. Finland (and Canada) has thousands and thousands of very small lakes - maybe there could be a new terrain feature representing this, so the tiles can remain plains or grasslands and be dotted with some lakes on top giving freshwater and some other benefits?
Really excited about how the whole map is shaping up
DC123456789
Deity
I think most of my suggestions about Canada from earlier were integrated, but a couple of small things I did notice:
Have you considered moving the bend/end of the Ottawa River 1E (more geographically accurate) or are you intentionally keeping it there so that Toronto gets a river (which wouldn't be terribly accurate, but would buff the city)?
Also, have you considered adding in marshes to represent the Hudson Bay Lowlands?
I concur, 2 or 3 marsh tiles west of James Bay would be appropriate and correctly make the region very unproductive. Also, it seems the corn is on the most accurate spot for Toronto—it might do good to move it east, also allowing Montreal to reach it.
Are you intending to make the resource distribution as sparse as it is (compared to the current smaller map)?
Are you intending to make the resource distribution as sparse as it is (compared to the current smaller map)?
DC123456789
Deity
It is more accurate, but I think it would be better to give Montreal more room given that Quebec is pretty close from the east, and it also does give room to settle Ottawa if you really want to have all four main cities there represented.
DC123456789
Deity
Well, placing/leaving the corn there would have the canonical location of Toronto as the tile 1W of it (and moving the corn east would put it on the canonical location of Ottawa). Anyway it doesn't really matter either way, let's let Leoreth decide.
But what if I want to settle Canada's canonical first capital Kingston?!
Also, I agree with the earlier post, the Ottawa River should bend one tile sooner. But then Toronto loses access to the river. Rideau Canal?
DC123456789
Deity
Province of Canada doesn't count.
The Rideau Canal route wouldn't touch Toronto anyway. Kingston's all the way on the other end of the lake.
hnrysml
Warlord
- Joined
- May 18, 2016
- Messages
- 273
I think the east African coast east of the rift valley and south of Somalia should be generally grasslands, and not plains.
I also would like to start talking about resources that appear throughout the game, as the current map is sorely lacking in representing many of the biggest agricultural changes (most non-agricultural resources are already represented from the start) that have happened throughout history:
In east Africa spices in Zanzibar in the Islamic era, and tea in Kenya in the late colonial era;
Corn in South Africa and DRC in the late colonial era and wine in South Africa by 1700;
More wheat and cattle in Australia, and potentially cotton, pearls in Broome, in the late colonial era;
Wheat in Chile;
Banana in Mexico;
Tea in Iran on the Caspian Sea and in Eastern Turkey around 1850-1900.
I feel like there could be a forum for this as I'm sure many people have as many suggestions as I do.
I also would like to start talking about resources that appear throughout the game, as the current map is sorely lacking in representing many of the biggest agricultural changes (most non-agricultural resources are already represented from the start) that have happened throughout history:
In east Africa spices in Zanzibar in the Islamic era, and tea in Kenya in the late colonial era;
Corn in South Africa and DRC in the late colonial era and wine in South Africa by 1700;
More wheat and cattle in Australia, and potentially cotton, pearls in Broome, in the late colonial era;
Wheat in Chile;
Banana in Mexico;
Tea in Iran on the Caspian Sea and in Eastern Turkey around 1850-1900.
I feel like there could be a forum for this as I'm sure many people have as many suggestions as I do.
