Am I "Unlucky"?

Kilt

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
33
Or do I just suck. Seems I always start in bad spots, or the AI hates me with a passion.

First, I have never played a civ game before. I do like strategy games and generally do quite well at them. I picked up Civ 4 just last week, did the tutorial, then did 1 settler mission (note - never finished the mission, tanks rolling over archers wasn't my idea of a challenge).

I then found this and other forums, figured my next step was a hop to Warlord. First game - warlord/large map/temperate ect ect ect. I find my settle/warrior in hell to start with. There is mountain and desert, a river and basically nothing for resources. I spend 5 turns running around looking for something (I realize that was an error). I panic and just plunk him down on a hill beside a river and hope for the best. I train a worker, start research towards bronze making (to do the tree chop method). Things are going ok, I get the research done, cut trees, make settler, move settle out to a new city site that I have mapped, and well, he got a little ahead of the warrior. Lion = dead settler. To make a long story short, I did manage to get 4 cities down, but endless barbarians from the wasteland to my east and very aggressive neighbors were the end of me. :sad:

Game 2. Much better start, however I was quickly surrounded. I was about 200 points ahead of the pack (700). I started losing my borders to the british via culture. I was also having problems with an overly aggressive AI in trade negotiations. End results, after a prolonged war with the british (I was winning), Catherine came out of nowhere with an armada and took my best city. I restarted the game.

Game 3. I customed this game, so there would be no tech trading (less hastles with AI I hoped). Unlike previous 2 games, I started in what seemed a great spot, resources everywhere. I put my city in a reasonable spot, started the tree chopping, even had 2 villages within 2 spaces of my city, got gold and hunting tech. Did some exploring and found heaps of resources, and soon realized it appeared I was on an Island, however it was connect to the mainland, and Cyrus had already blocked my expansion. Made an archer, declared war, plopped the archer down beside his town in the forest. This kept him pretty much pinned down. ;) After a few unsuccessful attempts to take his town, I finally got it. Unfortunately by that time I was still pinned by two other civs and Cyrus had made friends with them. I converted to there religion to avoid further conflict. So, my neighbors were Cyrus, Yanks, and Spanish. I was behind everyone in points except Cyrus. Stupidly I opened borders and both Americans and Spanish put cities on my little Peninsula (in the corners where my culture hadn't covered). Slowly the rest of the world showed up and I was behind everyone in points (and I thought I was doing well). Being cornered I chose to go Warmonger. I crushed Cyrus without a problem, but in return got some real crappy cities. Then the Chinese invited me to attack the Spanish and I did so, taking their one town from my Peninsula and one neighboring my Southern border. I now have 9 cities. My main neighbor is the US. I figure I have a tech advantage and decide to try and gain control of my Peninsula in full.
He has Riflemen. I have Cannons, rifles, grenadiers, m-gunners. I set up my southern border with decent defences (I think) and then attacked Seattle. I get within 2 or 3 riflemen of taking Seattle. Then his Cavalry (I didn't know he had any :mad: ) start causing havoc down south. I sent my own horse archers and knights into his land to plunder as well. I finally repel his attack to the south, but then notice he now has artillery and infantry :eek: . Seattle now has infantry as well.
So My Dilemna. I believe I have the upper hand as I have plundered enough to cost him, I don't think he has access to horses anymore and I am readjusting my border defences. Also using M-gunners to plunder as he seems to avoid attacking these. He has the tech advantage and I can't seem to take his city. My attempts at taking Seattle has just made the 3 rifles and one infantry that much more harder to kill. Should I wait until I have a tech advantage before I try taking Seattle again?
I am guessing to take out the 4 troops, I would need to assault with 6 cannons, then 4-6 grenadiers (or better tech). Alternatively, I could just surround it with M-gunners and wait for him to call a truce. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Kilt.
Ps - I always play the Japanese. No desire to play any other civs really. Usually slavery and vassalage.
 
In game 3: did you really need every tech you researched? It seems like the AI went for military techs...
 
vinstafresh said:
In game 3: did you really need every tech you researched? It seems like the AI went for military techs...

Probably not. The foldout that comes in the box is confusing as hell. I just glanced over the one provided by this site and it seems much clearer. However, I found that sometimes I research something, like railroad, and it doesn't give me the next option (should be steel). Are some techs only available during certain periods?

A side note. If you are only playing single player games, is there any reason for downloading patches?

Thanks
Kilt.
 
Kilt said:
Or do I just suck. Seems I always start in bad spots, or the AI hates me with a passion.

First, I have never played a civ game before. I do like strategy games and generally do quite well at them. I picked up Civ 4 just last week, did the tutorial, then did 1 settler mission (note - never finished the mission, tanks rolling over archers wasn't my idea of a challenge).

I then found this and other forums, figured my next step was a hop to Warlord. First game - warlord/large map/temperate ect ect ect. I find my settle/warrior in hell to start with. There is mountain and desert, a river and basically nothing for resources. I spend 5 turns running around looking for something (I realize that was an error). I panic and just plunk him down on a hill beside a river and hope for the best. I train a worker, start research towards bronze making (to do the tree chop method). Things are going ok, I get the research done, cut trees, make settler, move settle out to a new city site that I have mapped, and well, he got a little ahead of the warrior. Lion = dead settler. To make a long story short, I did manage to get 4 cities down, but endless barbarians from the wasteland to my east and very aggressive neighbors were the end of me. :sad:

Unless you use the worker chop, do not try to get settlers from small cities, and try to have a spare warrior as escort for settlers. You just need 1 at the beginning, as animals will never enter your territory, so when you make your new city, it cannot be attacked by an animal and the warrior could escort the following settler (of course it doesn t work when the animals get upgraded to warrior barbarians :))

to defend against barbs, fortify some units on hills/jungle outside of your city, they will get 75% prot.

Kilt said:
Game 2. Much better start, however I was quickly surrounded. I was about 200 points ahead of the pack (700). I started losing my borders to the british via culture. I was also having problems with an overly aggressive AI in trade negotiations. End results, after a prolonged war with the british (I was winning), Catherine came out of nowhere with an armada and took my best city. I restarted the game.

Move out your mouse over the other civ leader names (bottom right), so you can know what they think about you. You must also remember that civs tend to try to slowdown anybody who has a high score and try to ask the lower scores for tribute.

Try to keep your wars as short as possible, and either finish your neighbours in early game, either make them friendly to you (i prefer the first option). You need at least some friends to trade technology or to sell tech for gold or to help you against a coalition. You don't zqnt the war to last as it will create unhappy people in your city.

Oh and ... the AI loves to sneak attack, to counter this, you can make a good road network and make some fast units for defense, in addition of having one/two units garnisoned in the city.

It is not really necessary at lower levels, but you can try to manage the cities, trying to specialize them and turning on "avoid growth" when the number of people unhappy and happy is equal ... etc

Kilt said:
Game 3. I customed this game, so there would be no tech trading (less hastles with AI I hoped). Unlike previous 2 games, I started in what seemed a great spot, resources everywhere. I put my city in a reasonable spot, started the tree chopping, even had 2 villages within 2 spaces of my city, got gold and hunting tech. Did some exploring and found heaps of resources, and soon realized it appeared I was on an Island, however it was connect to the mainland, and Cyrus had already blocked my expansion. Made an archer, declared war, plopped the archer down beside his town in the forest. This kept him pretty much pinned down. ;) After a few unsuccessful attempts to take his town, I finally got it. Unfortunately by that time I was still pinned by two other civs and Cyrus had made friends with them. I converted to there religion to avoid further conflict. So, my neighbors were Cyrus, Yanks, and Spanish. I was behind everyone in points except Cyrus. Stupidly I opened borders and both Americans and Spanish put cities on my little Peninsula (in the corners where my culture hadn't covered). Slowly the rest of the world showed up and I was behind everyone in points (and I thought I was doing well). Being cornered I chose to go Warmonger. I crushed Cyrus without a problem, but in return got some real crappy cities. Then the Chinese invited me to attack the Spanish and I did so, taking their one town from my Peninsula and one neighboring my Southern border. I now have 9 cities. My main neighbor is the US. I figure I have a tech advantage and decide to try and gain control of my Peninsula in full.
He has Riflemen. I have Cannons, rifles, grenadiers, m-gunners. I set up my southern border with decent defences (I think) and then attacked Seattle. I get within 2 or 3 riflemen of taking Seattle. Then his Cavalry (I didn't know he had any :mad: ) start causing havoc down south. I sent my own horse archers and knights into his land to plunder as well. I finally repel his attack to the south, but then notice he now has artillery and infantry :eek: . Seattle now has infantry as well.
So My Dilemna. I believe I have the upper hand as I have plundered enough to cost him, I don't think he has access to horses anymore and I am readjusting my border defences. Also using M-gunners to plunder as he seems to avoid attacking these. He has the tech advantage and I can't seem to take his city. My attempts at taking Seattle has just made the 3 rifles and one infantry that much more harder to kill. Should I wait until I have a tech advantage before I try taking Seattle again?
I am guessing to take out the 4 troops, I would need to assault with 6 cannons, then 4-6 grenadiers (or better tech). Alternatively, I could just surround it with M-gunners and wait for him to call a truce. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Kilt.
Ps - I always play the Japanese. No desire to play any other civs really. Usually slavery and vassalage.

Use machine gunner to protect either stack of units, ressources, cities.

The key for taking out large cities quickly is to make alot of artillery, they are the best to take out large stack of units in a city. Move them all next to one city and with 8 of them, you will lower the def to 0% in turn then te next turn you will cause collateral damage to all units and lower their health to 50% (of course the artillery doesn t last long and do not get much experience >.<, but this will allow your other units to rarely die and get experience quickly).

My advice would be to call for a truce after pillaging the most of his land, while building dozens of cannons then finish him :) but ... oh well ... I guess I don't like peaceful games.
 
blueinf said:
You need at least some friends to trade technology or to sell tech for gold or to help you against a coalition.

I have tech trading turned off. The game only seemed to want to trade crappy techs to me for good ones, and was pissed if I didn't do the trade.

blueinf said:
Oh and ... the AI loves to sneak attack, to counter this, you can make a good road network and make some fast units for defense, in addition of having one/two units garnisoned in the city.

Always have roads set ups asap, then do the railway (usually workers aren't doing much at this time anyway)

blueinf said:
Use machine gunner to protect either stack of units, ressources, cities.

Well, turns out, just as the Americans were making for a second assault, I asked for peace and they went for it. :)
And I guess I had weakened them a little, because after they opened borders with me, the Greeks attacked them. They US asked me for help, and since the Greeks hate me I decided why not. So currently in a war with the Greeks. I basically have a wall of M-gunners along my border, backed up with grenadiers. I am currently waitin for ocean superiority before I attempt an assault on his land. Meantime Chinese are finishing off the US. And I have moved from 7th in points to 3rd (China and Rome ahead of me). Plus 3 GP's have given me a tech edge I believe. Just about to get flight.

Funny thing is, I thought for sure I was a goner. I mean, most games I play are just conquest, and of course "peace" just doesn't exist. I must say I enjoy the greater options here and I am quite happy with the AI. For instance the Greeks did a spearhead on one of my weaker cities in the South, but at the same time, they snuck a heap of ships up to northern (rather unprotected) part of my Peninsula. Plus, they attempt to get solo riflemen doing some plundering.

I was a little disappointed that the Greeks would throw that group of troops at my city (3 m-gunners chewed em to hell). Seemed like a waste, until they did a beach landing with another stack. To stop them from hitting the city (and taking it), I tossed everything at em, including some old swordsman (to finish the catapults).
Looking forward to going on the offensive tonight.

Kilt.
 
Yes, patch your game even though you're not playing multiplayer. I play single, put in the patch this morning, and played 2 quick games. I've noticed a performance improvement; the "Ironworks" bug is fixed, and some other bugs that affect single player games.

Also, while you're on the learning curve, you might want to consider using 'quick' games - I can complete one on a standard sized map in 3-4 hours, where that would have been a minimum of 20 hours for me on Civ 3.

Some other things that have worked for me on the learning curve: play custom games with fewer than the max number of civs using quick games; get comfortable at that, then increase the number of civs. When you're comfortable with the max number of civs, move to the next level of game (settler - chieftan - warlord - noble, etc). You'll get to a point when you feel comfortable even if your first settler is in a fairly bad patch of terrain.

You also might want to consider using a Panagea <sp?> map at this point; learn a lot about land battles, then move to a map where you'll need to develop your strength in naval warfare.
 
jeannie said:
Yes, patch your game even though you're not playing multiplayer. I play single, put in the patch this morning, and played 2 quick games. I've noticed a performance improvement; the "Ironworks" bug is fixed, and some other bugs that affect single player games.

Thanks Jeannie. I could really use a performance improvement. I have the min requirements (ath 3500+, 6800 vid card, 1GB) but the lag on large maps is almost unbearable (at low settings).

I did a bit more reading and I think I have figured out my Tech Tree problems. I believe I have a win in the bag, I was hoping for conquest win, but likely I will win by Culture, although I am not sure what the requirements are, I do know I am miles ahead of others. Mainly in the cities I conquered, went crazy with culture stuff to expand the boundaries quickly.
I will likely try one more Warlord game and then move onto Noble? level.
With tech tree figured out, and better city placement I think I can play at an even level with the AI, assuming I don't get dumped in the desert. :( I think I have most of the combat details figured out. However, I think I can improve on my city management better. I didn't catch onto city management until about half way through this game.
And I will follow your advice with a quick game, might try another leader, not that I don't mind the Japanese.

Kilt.
 
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