Amazon goes insane: LOTR prequel series incoming

Evie

Pronounced like Eevee
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
10,192
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
In canon, thr main reason given for not wanting Elves on the island is that they represent the Valar, whom the Numenoreans view badly. We are not told it's the only reason, but we are not told there are others either. So no, it!s not canon that there was fear of job stealing.

Tolkien does mention in one of his letters that within Middle Earth Elves might form a superior caste. Fearing that if your island allows a "superior" (and forever-living) people in they will occupy all the quality positions and you will be left with the dregs, a subjugated people, is not uncommon.

And of course the complaint start with one of the guy whose guild position Halbrand tried to steal. So it's already close to true for him - a friend of an elf DID literally just try to steal his job.
 

EvaDK

Emperor
Joined
Sep 27, 2016
Messages
1,145
Location
Denmark
Did elves really have friction with humans over risk of humans losing their jobs? :D

No. It was one of the most cringe moments of RoP so far.

The rift that exists between the elves and a fraction of the Numenorians is existential and has its roots in the latters relationship with the Valar, whom they see as the benefactors of the elves and not-so-much benefactors of themselves. This causes envy and Numenor seeks inwards instead of outwards and grows more nationalistic and prideful. Not all Numenorians subscribe to this however (the old King is one of them) and Elendil and Isildur break away from their home island and will eventually form new settlements in Middle-earth, allying themselves with the elves living there. Aragorn from LOTR is a descendent of this line.

PS: In one of the episodes we saw Galadriel and Elendil observe a mural that depicted the friendly split between those who wished to become mortal men and those who wished to become immortal elvs. We know what Elrond chose; his brother Elros who chose the other path, became the first King of Numenor. As such, Elrond has watched a lot of his kind and family die and it burdens him. Watch this space.
 

Evie

Pronounced like Eevee
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
10,192
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
Someone reminded me that in his letters, Tolkien mentioned that early Second Age Sauron had a genuine "good" period where he was well-intended and trying to turn his back on his evil ways (but couldn't quite find the humility to truly achieve repentance).

And that I think is the missing piece to make Sauron-Halbrand fall together: Halbrand's whole remorseful act and desire to get away from past evil being *genuine*. Then he hasn't successfully deceived Galadriel, his being in the middle of the sea is not a cunning plan, his stumbling on Galadriel is not insane good luck but the worst of bad luck, his warning her about his own nature is not some weird double-bluff but the genuine truth, and Gil-Galad's "her own obsession might awake the evil she's seeking" goes from head-in-the-sand management to entirely accurate prescience, and Adar's anger at the name stops being jealousy or rivalry and fits perfectly as the reaction of someone who feels *betrayed*.

So Halbrand is roaring back to the high tiers of the suspect list.
 
Last edited:

Kyriakos

Creator
Joined
Oct 15, 2003
Messages
69,603
Location
The Dream
What is the general reception of the show? I can't tell by the wildly different takes one finds on youtube.

Spoiler, the following is not a positive take :D


Did orcs suffer life-threatening burns from the sunlight before? (also, would an orc really care if it comes to look even worse?)
 
Last edited:

EvaDK

Emperor
Joined
Sep 27, 2016
Messages
1,145
Location
Denmark
I wouldn't know; I usually stay away from youtubers that mass produce videos, that does little else but confirm and justify their own preexisting bias, especially when it is hate-driven.

If you want an informative and unbiased opinion, your best option is to seek out those youtubers, that were mostly unbiased before the show was released (they exist).

Someone reminded me that in his letters, Tolkien mentioned that early Second Age Sauron had a genuine "good" period where he was well-intended and trying to turn his back on his evil ways (but couldn't quite find the humility to truly achieve repentance).

And that I think is the missing piece to make Sauron-Halbrand fall together: Halbrand's whole remorseful act and desire to get away from past evil being *genuine*. Then he hasn't successfully deceived Galadriel, his being in the middle of the sea is not a cunning plan, his stumbling on Galadriel is not insane good luck but the worst of bad luck, his warning her about his own nature is not some weird double-bluff but the genuine truth, and Gil-Galad's "her own obsession might awake the evil she's seeking" goes from head-in-the-sand management to entirely accurate prescience, and Adar's anger at the name stops being jealousy or rivalry and fits perfectly as the reaction of someone who feels *betrayed*.

Well, great villains never perceive themselves as 'evil'; Sauron would fit into that category. Sauron's end goal for Middle-earth is order, obedience and industry. To achieve that, he needs to cleanse it for 'unwanted elements' first. There's a synergy being established between Halbrand and Galadriel, I feel. They are both outcasts from their kin, from both their own design and external reasons. And yeah, I don't see a bright future for Halbrand either.

I think Adar has been assigned by Sauron personally to establish his reign in Mordor. I believe Adar needs the broken sword hilt for this; perhaps he needs to perform a ritual with it, as depicted on the mural we saw - a sacrifice to cause Mount Doom to darken Mordor and make it livable for orcs perhaps. I still favor the pet theory that Sauron is already in play; the showrunners are just keeping him off screen until the right moment for the reveal.

I have a hunch about Adar's line about 'not being a God - yet'; it connects to the above.
 

Chukchi Husky

Lone Wolf
Joined
Jan 28, 2004
Messages
8,168
Location
Carmarthenshire, Wales
Did orcs suffer life-threatening burns from the sunlight before? (also, would an orc really care if it comes to look even worse?)

I'm not sure about life-threatening, but orcs can't stand the sunlight. This is clear in the book, with Saruman breeding his own orcs that specifically can move during sunlight and the Battle of Pelennor Fields taking place under darkness coming from Mordor. The film adaption of the Lord of the Rings tries to show this, although the way the Battle of Pelennor Fields is shown makes it look overcast instead of actually darkened by the clouds. The adaption of The Hobbit seemed to have forgotten this, showing the orcs freely moving in daylight.
 
Last edited:

EvaDK

Emperor
Joined
Sep 27, 2016
Messages
1,145
Location
Denmark
Wow... well, Galadriel wanted to touch the darkness and it sure looks like she's about to get her wish.

Spoiler :
next episode?

 

Evie

Pronounced like Eevee
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
10,192
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
Out of the ballpark. They've had their weaker episodes, but this one is a home run, and depending on how the season goes may be a grand slam.

Adar...is exactly who I hoped he'd be and they're taking it even further than I had hoped.

And the ending...well, okay, all the jokes about that mountain having a simplistic name? It EARNED that simplistic name. Wow.

EDIT

Oh crap...is Adar the show's answer to the ages-old debate about "all living things were divided that day, and some of every kind, even of beasts and birds, were found in either hosts, save the Elves only"?
 
Last edited:

Ajidica

High Quality Person
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
21,817
SAURON BATTLE SNAILS
 

Evie

Pronounced like Eevee
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
10,192
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
Are you saying Sauron needed the help of the French?
 

Aiken_Drumn

Deity
Supporter
Joined
Oct 16, 2021
Messages
2,614
Location
NES/FG/SF Activity:Arguing the toss
Before I get spoilered, is the Amazon series being shown at the same time globally, or is America a episode ahead of the UK?
 

Evie

Pronounced like Eevee
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
10,192
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
Roughly the same time - midnight friday local time in each country. So Europe gets new episodes a few hours before North America, nothing more.
 

Ajidica

High Quality Person
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
21,817
Are you saying Sauron needed the help of the French?
You kidding me? The Elves are clearly the French. Pretentious, stuck up, convinced of their own superiority, clinging to past grandeur. Insist you must consult them and the moment they become even slightly involved it becomes their plan and their idea (but your fault if it goes wrong).
 

Aiken_Drumn

Deity
Supporter
Joined
Oct 16, 2021
Messages
2,614
Location
NES/FG/SF Activity:Arguing the toss
OK so wth! The broken sword thing.

Seems so dumb the elves couldn't sense it was a fudging hammer in a cloth not the sword?! And why give it to the clearly titled kid to dispose of?
 

Evie

Pronounced like Eevee
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
10,192
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
I mean Galadriel’s mind was clearly on something else (Halbrand too), and she didn’t have a description of the package’s content (again, Halbrand too). While Arondir should have spotted it, it wouldn’t have changed anything at that point, Waldreg was too far ahead already and they had no clue where he had gone, so the plot impact is nil.
 

Aiken_Drumn

Deity
Supporter
Joined
Oct 16, 2021
Messages
2,614
Location
NES/FG/SF Activity:Arguing the toss
Impact. I'm sure it's not the case, but did they not all get killed in a pyroclastic flow?
 

Samson

Deity
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Messages
14,689
Location
Cambridge
Impact. I'm sure it's not the case, but did they not all get killed in a pyroclastic flow?
I do not think Galadriel is dead. But it seems a bit unnecessarily to put her quite so in the path.
 

Lexicus

Deity
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
28,711
Location
Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
I'm not sure about life-threatening, but orcs can't stand the sunlight. This is clear in the book, with Saruman breeding his own orcs that specifically can move during sunlight and the Battle of Pelennor Fields taking place under darkness coming from Mordor. The film adaption of the Lord of the Rings tries to show this, although the way the Battle of Pelennor Fields is shown makes it look overcast instead of actually darkened by the clouds. The adaption of The Hobbit

IIRC the (regular) Orcs can stand sunlight if there is great need, but it chars their skin black.
 
Top Bottom