America: Write Your Own History

[mrrandomplayer]

We wanted communist revolution because we were communist. I don't want to get back into it but we did it because we wanted to have our own fun but it was sorta kinda ruined. Anyways, closing argument, it wasn't the communists' fault, it was the secessionists, in my opinion.

It was communism's fault. Communism is a stupid economic system that is far inferior to capitalism and naturally leads to dictatorships. Some people decided to ignore every historical precedent and believe that a communist democracy could exist, which obliviously didn't work out, leading to a dictatorship. Therefore, it was 100% the communists' fault for derailing democracy, indirectly encouraging secession, and ruining the game.

 

[VGL]

Hey! You copied mine (Only you improved it) but anyway:

 

[CaterpillarKing]

Because we were trying to have fun. We didn't ruin the game. Realistically we all sort of ended it, even RT. The communists elected in socialist and communist officials, RT interpreted them to be much more autocratic than we had hoped, and you guys flipped out and caused a world war. We are all at fault, I think that's a fair assessment, don't you?

 

[DKVM]

Edit- This message is intended for MRRandom

1. None of what you said has one hint of logic at all. What I'm getting from what you're saying is that you think Communism is stupid and thus would automatically be a failure and dictatorship.

2.There is one major factor that happened IRL that didn't happen in the story that led to the dictatorships IRL. All of the RL ones were forged in the midst of revolution and anarchy by deposing the previous government in which it is quite easy to seize power. Here, it was a barely elected Communist Party of which didn't even have enough majority in Congress to get anything dictatorial passed until the opposition seceded and thus left the Communists with a majority in Congress and the power to pass any laws they wanted.

 

[CaterpillarKing]

We aren't to blame, the American people are for electing him in. Just the people who acted as the communist party wasn't large enough to vote him in, it was the majority of like 20 people, and I know there weren't 11 people shouting communism.

 

[VGL]

Edit- This message is intended for MRRandom

1. None of what you said has one hint of logic at all. What I'm getting from what you're saying is that you think Communism is stupid and thus would automatically be a failure and dictatorship.

2.There is one major factor that happened IRL that didn't happen in the story that led to the dictatorships IRL. All of the RL ones were forged in the midst of revolution and anarchy by deposing the previous government in which it is quite easy to seize power. Here, it was a barely elected Communist Party of which didn't even have enough majority in Congress to get anything dictatorial passed until the opposition seceded and thus left the Communists with a majority in Congress and the power to pass any laws they wanted.

1: Well it is. It failed in many places and never really worked. China doesn't count as they are state capitalism. They would be rich by setting low wages and sweeping all the money from exports and investors.

2: It's because the communist revolution was coming to an end and the communists where winning so the people didn't have any choice but to declare independence in order to sustain democracy in their own country.

 

[VGL]

We aren't to blame, the American people are for electing him in. Just the people who acted as the communist party wasn't large enough to vote him in, it was the majority of like 20 people, and I know there weren't 11 people shouting communism.

You elected him. You act as the people. If it was like Mrrandomplayer's America game (which is dead) then it would be Ok.

 

[CaterpillarKing]

But they were democratically elected in! You people had no proof it would result in a loss of democracy. Also, ik Moai, adhiraj, DKVM, and I were the only ones responsible for voting him in, many more voted him in. ANYWAYS! This argument is over, this isn't why I posted on this thread one more time. It was to bring it up to 100k. Can we please stop the bickering for now? It's over. Everyone is dead. But this story will live on in our hearts.

 

[DKVM]

1: Well it is. It failed in many places and never really worked. China doesn't count as they are state capitalism. They would be rich by setting low wages and sweeping all the money from exports and investors.

2: It's because the communist revolution was coming to an end and the communists where winning so the people didn't have any choice but to declare independence in order to sustain democracy in their own country.

Oh hello mrrandomplayer! I see you changed your username to VGL. Nice talking with you.


Also, the communists in this story didn't gain power through a revolution. There was no Communist revolution. They were voted in.

 

[VGL]

I didn't see the EDITED part

And can you show me a link to the election when the communists came in power?

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Edit- This message is intended for MRRandom

1. None of what you said has one hint of logic at all. What I'm getting from what you're saying is that you think Communism is stupid and thus would automatically be a failure and dictatorship.

2.There is one major factor that happened IRL that didn't happen in the story that led to the dictatorships IRL. All of the RL ones were forged in the midst of revolution and anarchy by deposing the previous government in which it is quite easy to seize power. Here, it was a barely elected Communist Party of which didn't even have enough majority in Congress to get anything dictatorial passed until the opposition seceded and thus left the Communists with a majority in Congress and the power to pass any laws they wanted.

First of all, during the story, not a single argument that you made had a bit of logic either.

1. Communism has no logic. It's a principle that fails the "human nature" test and only works in a magical idealist utopia that will never happen. It is incompatible with democracy and success for two reasons:
a. It promotes a ridiculous goal of a "equalized utopia" with no government and no leader. That's just an excuse for dictators like Stalin, Mao, and Browder (in this timeline) to sway the opinions of the common mass and take control.
b. Economically, it's fundamentally incompatible with human nature, as there is no motivation to do well (everyone gets paid the same, why should I try to work hard?) and since in most "workers' utopias" it's impossible to fire workers but the people in charge don't have to do a bloody thing, leading to the "we pretend to work, you pretend to pay us" problem.

2. During the US Civil War IRL, there were still plenty of peace democrats that strongly opposed the Civil War and at some points were pretty close to threatening Lincoln's agenda. In all secession crises, there are always people who stay in the union but want peace. In a two-party system that promotes free speech, there is ALWAYS an opposition party. The whole "well, all of the capitalists left, so it makes sense that the only presidential candidates were communist" is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard, as in a free speech encouraging democracy, there will inevitably be dissent. The fact that the election of Browder was a complete joke shows that the communists had taken over then. Even though the communists won democratically the first time, they should not have clamped down on free speech and paved the way for the "election" with only 1 party.

 

[VGL]

 

[CaterpillarKing]

Seriously guys! Stop! This argument was dead awhile ago, lets not rehash old wounds

 

[mrrandomplayer]

I'm simply telling the truth. Also, I am simply responding to someone who is implying that I'm an idiot who can't utter a mouthful of logic.

 

[DKVM]

First of all, during the story, not a single argument that you made had a bit of logic either.

1. Communism has no logic. It's a principle that fails the "human nature" test and only works in a magical idealist utopia that will never happen. It is incompatible with democracy and success for two reasons:
a. It promotes a ridiculous goal of a "equalized utopia" with no government and no leader. That's just an excuse for dictators like Stalin, Mao, and Browder (in this timeline) to sway the opinions of the common mass and take control.
b. Economically, it's fundamentally incompatible with human nature, as there is no motivation to do well (everyone gets paid the same, why should I try to work hard?) and since in most "workers' utopias" it's impossible to fire workers but the people in charge don't have to do a bloody thing, leading to the "we pretend to work, you pretend to pay us" problem.

2. During the US Civil War IRL, there were still plenty of peace democrats that strongly opposed the Civil War and at some points were pretty close to threatening Lincoln's agenda. In all secession crises, there are always people who stay in the union but want peace. In a two-party system that promotes free speech, there is ALWAYS an opposition party. The whole "well, all of the capitalists left, so it makes sense that the only presidential candidates were communist" is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard, as in a free speech encouraging democracy, there will inevitably be dissent. The fact that the election of Browder was a complete joke shows that the communists had taken over then. Even though the communists won democratically the first time, they should not have clamped down on free speech and paved the way for the "election" with only 1 party.

Six Things

1. If we are to continue this debate, we should move it to the Off-topic group area.

2. I did use logic in all of my arguments. I tried to explain every one of my arguments but plenty of times, it seems you had put wax in your ears as you continued to ignore or take into account my explanations of my logic at all which is why I had left the story in the first place. I only came back because RT convinced me.

The whole "well, all of the capitalists left, so it makes sense that the only presidential candidates were communist" is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard

3.I'm not talking about the elections. By then, the elections were rigged. I will admit that. I was speaking of CONGRESS and how most of the POLITICIANS
had left for Australia, South Africa, etc, and thus had left a power vacuum in Congress which was filled by Communists which then allowed the dictatorship to start. I also wasn't talking about only Capitalists. You forget that every party, not just Capitalists, were against the Communist Party.

4. Just in case you were referring to my argument a few months ago when talking about the elections, I wasn't acting as if there wasn't any oppositions whatsoever. I was saying that there wasn't any POLITICAL opposition. Parties don't just form out of thin air. They need leadership to create and guide them. Especially as American parties moreso have been known to be divided between many factions throughout the whole American party system. Most, if not all, of the leadership with experience, skills, and/or reputation necessary to guide such a coalition of differing ideologies from the right and moderate left had left for the seceded areas and were currently in high command of them in the revolution. This was my thought process at the time.

5. This is not a rhetoric question. Do you think of me as stupid/immature, and/or naive? I get the feeling that is what you think of me anytime we argue.

6. I get what you're saying about Communism. I too don't think it could work in RL without a powerhungry dictator coming into control. Thing is, this isn't Real life. This is a STORY inside a GAME where we can make anything we want happen.

EDIT - I just saw your new post while I was typing this paragraph. I don't think you're an idiot mrrandomplayer.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Six Things

1. If we are to continue this debate, we should move it to the Off-topic group area.

2. I did use logic in all of my arguments. I tried to explain every one of my arguments but plenty of times, it seems you had put wax in your ears as you continued to ignore or take into account my explanations of my logic at all which is why I had left the story in the first place. I only came back because RT convinced me.



3.I'm not talking about the elections. By then, the elections were rigged. I will admit that. I was speaking of CONGRESS and how most of the POLITICIANS
had left for Australia, South Africa, etc, and thus had left a power vacuum in Congress which was filled by Communists which then allowed the dictatorship to start. I also wasn't talking about only Capitalists. You forget that every party, not just Capitalists, were against the Communist Party.

4. Just in case you were referring to my argument a few months ago when talking about the elections, I wasn't acting as if there wasn't any oppositions whatsoever. I was saying that there wasn't any POLITICAL opposition. Parties don't just form out of thin air. They need leadership to create and guide them. Especially as American parties moreso have been known to be divided between many factions throughout the whole American party system. Most, if not all, of the leadership with experience, skills, and/or reputation necessary to guide such a coalition of differing ideologies from the right and moderate left had left for the seceded areas and were currently in high command of them in the revolution. This was my thought process at the time.

5. This is not a rhetoric question. Do you think of me as stupid/immature, and/or naive? I get the feeling that is what you think of me anytime we argue.

6. I get what you're saying about Communism. I too don't think it could work in RL without a powerhungry dictator coming into control. Thing is, this isn't Real life. This is a STORY inside a GAME where we can make anything we want happen.

EDIT - I just saw your new post while I was typing this paragraph. I don't think you're an idiot mrrandomplayer.

1. I think we should probably agree to disagree.
2. I could say the same for you, but I think neither of us are going to budge there.
3. Just talking about Congress lets that make more sense, but I still disagree there. During major American wars, there has almost always been an opposition party in Congress.
4. Ok, thanks for clarifying that. I certainly agree with you that as time went on, fewer and fewer experienced politicians would want to stay in the SSA. I still think that initially, for the Browder election, there would still be enough opposition leaders to cobble together a non-communist party.
5/6. I was actually getting quite flustered because I was not aware of point 6. If I had known that, I certainly don't think I would have gotten this mad, and I'm sorry that I overreacted. I think we both miscommunicated there.

So sorry for losing my temper, let's agree to disagree and move on.

 

[CaterpillarKing]

Everyone. Please, take a chill pill. No one is calling anyone an idiot. This is a game made by a Canadian-American. Not real life. We're all irradiated and dead anyhow, why are we arguing?

 

[DKVM]

So sorry for losing my temper, let's agree to disagree and move on.

Agreed. I'm Sorry for the miscommunication and starting up old arguments as well.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Everyone. Please, take a chill pill. No one is calling anyone an idiot. This is a game made by a Canadian-American. Not real life. We're all irradiated and dead anyhow, why are we arguing?

Hopefully we've buried the hatchet now, as I now understand what DKVM was trying to say and I acknowledge that I lost my temper and acted too aggressively.

Edit: Lol, got ninja'ed.

 

[CaterpillarKing]

Now lets all sit around the burning wreckage of DC and sing Kumbaya.