Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Same goes for Chola. Also the Eastern Archer (Bowman?) has no defensive bombard ("volley" was the first word I thought of) as the other archer units do. Another design choice?
Anno Domini beta : test it and feed back here!!
- Thread starter Rob (R8XFT)
- Start date
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
Interesting...Look forward to Rob's feedback. I haven't encountered any other problems or potential problems.
Well, I'm running wild as the Harappans right now, finally putting paid to those nasty Celtiberians...then I can try another race, maybe the Norse this time
Well, I'm running wild as the Harappans right now, finally putting paid to those nasty Celtiberians...then I can try another race, maybe the Norse this time
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Hrafnkell's confirms my experience with the Harappans, both playing them and encountering them under AI control. If they have room to expand they become expansionist & very aggressive. They're able to steamroll nearby civs because of the early irrigation. That may be fine for gameplay but totally counter to current understanding of their culture. Is there any way to give them higher corruption or war weariness to slow their expansion without crippling the rest of the Indian civs?
edit: maybe just make their workers more expensive?
edit: maybe just make their workers more expensive?
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
The irrigation did help, no doubt. I don't want to take all the credit away from my fine generalship, however 
I would say that each game is different but if Blue Monkey is having the same experience, it can't just be me 
Part of my success was that I expanded like crazy early on, and when I first encountered the Celtiberians they weren't much of a factor. The Byzantines were. However, my victory over the Byzantines created a vacuum which the Celtiberians immediately filled. I was lucky because I'd been forced to engage in a military buildup in order to fight the Byzantines so I wasn't completely helpless when the Celtiberians demanded tribute. I had continued my buildup meantime. In a sense, I was forced to become a military power, but again, the irrigation helped because some of my cities would not have become so large without it - not all had ready access to rivers.
As for war weariness, that did force me out of my first war with the Celtiberians, that and my inability to defeat their invisible units. I combated it with city improvements and by using Tribal Council and Monarchy with their low war weariness and avoiding Mahajanapada with its high. I had already caved in to tribute demands several times (from several people) before I said "no" so I knew war was coming. It was build or die.
Another solution to Harappan expansionism, if this is a problem, might be to change tribal council so that war weariness is more of a factor, or to prohibit the Harappans from adopting Monarchy as a government type.
On the other hand, it was the aggression of others that forced me into warlike mode. I expanded each time I won a war, gaining a city or two here and a city or two there. My only big, Alexander-like conquests came because I had signed a mutual protection pact with the Gauls and they were helping me against Carthage and I saw that if I dropped out of the war and accepted Carthage's offer of peace that they would destroy the Gauls like they'd destroyed the Nubians and that I would be next, with borders too long and irregular to defend. In essence then, I was forced to go into Alexander mode out of self preservation.
It's funny how computer players can behave, regardless of their characteristics/advantages. One of the races in Embryodead's MEM, I believe it is Novgorod, is expansionist, but in a dozen games I have yet to see them expand beyond one or two cities. They've yet to be anything but a victim. The Germans in that game, on the other hand, have been a factor in each game I've played save one. Obviously, terrain, neighbors, etc, all will have a roll in determining how a civ behaves, but with random maps (as in Anno Domini) that can't be controlled. What I wonder then is if every one is having the same experience with the Harappans...?
I would say that each game is different but if Blue Monkey is having the same experience, it can't just be me Part of my success was that I expanded like crazy early on, and when I first encountered the Celtiberians they weren't much of a factor. The Byzantines were. However, my victory over the Byzantines created a vacuum which the Celtiberians immediately filled. I was lucky because I'd been forced to engage in a military buildup in order to fight the Byzantines so I wasn't completely helpless when the Celtiberians demanded tribute. I had continued my buildup meantime. In a sense, I was forced to become a military power, but again, the irrigation helped because some of my cities would not have become so large without it - not all had ready access to rivers.
As for war weariness, that did force me out of my first war with the Celtiberians, that and my inability to defeat their invisible units. I combated it with city improvements and by using Tribal Council and Monarchy with their low war weariness and avoiding Mahajanapada with its high. I had already caved in to tribute demands several times (from several people) before I said "no" so I knew war was coming. It was build or die.
Another solution to Harappan expansionism, if this is a problem, might be to change tribal council so that war weariness is more of a factor, or to prohibit the Harappans from adopting Monarchy as a government type.
On the other hand, it was the aggression of others that forced me into warlike mode. I expanded each time I won a war, gaining a city or two here and a city or two there. My only big, Alexander-like conquests came because I had signed a mutual protection pact with the Gauls and they were helping me against Carthage and I saw that if I dropped out of the war and accepted Carthage's offer of peace that they would destroy the Gauls like they'd destroyed the Nubians and that I would be next, with borders too long and irregular to defend. In essence then, I was forced to go into Alexander mode out of self preservation.
It's funny how computer players can behave, regardless of their characteristics/advantages. One of the races in Embryodead's MEM, I believe it is Novgorod, is expansionist, but in a dozen games I have yet to see them expand beyond one or two cities. They've yet to be anything but a victim. The Germans in that game, on the other hand, have been a factor in each game I've played save one. Obviously, terrain, neighbors, etc, all will have a roll in determining how a civ behaves, but with random maps (as in Anno Domini) that can't be controlled. What I wonder then is if every one is having the same experience with the Harappans...?
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
It still takes great leadership to win. I've always spanked the AI Harappans. I'm just saying that the early expansion leads to ahistorical aggression. As you yourself said -The irrigation did help, no doubt. I don't want to take all the credit away from my fine generalship, however
I think that's a misreading of the pedia. I too mistakenly avoided it a couple of times. But it actually has low weariness, and is a very effective wartime gov't.
It's my experience that the AI is extremely aggressive in general in this mod, and Hrafnkell seems to have dealt with a lot of pushy neighbors as well. I actually step the aggression setting down a notch to enjoy playing the mod. I thought maybe it was just my style of play, but I'm curious if others have similar reactions.
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
I just checked again and mine says "high" war weariness for Mahajanapada, unless it says one thing and has another. I haven't checked the editor to verify.
Speaking of AI aggression, I just got sneak-attacked by Florence and then, a few turns later, by the Athenians but they're both a lot smaller than me (and less technologically advanced) and I've got Roman roads now connecting the extremities of my empire, so they'll get a good spanking too. The Celtiberains are gone now and my other enemies will soon follow. Only the Gauls have been steadfast friends and I'm even keeping an eye on them now, and garrisons along our border just in case. I think only Chola and Egypt have neglected to declare war on me so far!
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
You're right. I was misremembering an earlier conversation in the thread where I was comparing Mahajanapada to Empire. I thought Empire had low weariness like the similarly named gov't in some other mods - in this one Empire also has high weariness. The big problem with Mahajanapada is that several more techs must be researched than for Empire.
R8XFT pointed out then that the Indians have a lot more improvements that add extra happiness / reduce weariness than other civs. Some of these are buildings that add those onto "normal" functions. For example the Citrisala raises science rate (like a library) but it also reduces weariness. The second function may be easy to overlook when deciding what to build. While they're late bloomers, with careful attention to the queue the Indians are very competitive. Create strong defenses early on, then research & build like crazy.
Historically the Indians were strong vs. the Hellenes, Rome, & China because they developed in relative isolation & were advanced by the time they encountered each other. The Moslems/Mughals took about half a millenium to establish themselves. Even then they only controlled the northern part of the subcontinent.
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
I noticed I had a lot of improvements that had that effect and I've been zealous in my building of them. Not even all of them are proof against war weariness, as I've found, but they do help, especially when you spend more on happiness and when you wars are, like mine, defensive. I haven't attack anybody but then I hardly need to!
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Yeah; wars get really hard to prosecute after a few turns. Maybe R8XFT will tone down the war weariness for Mahajanapada before the final release.
Just to give you a quick update, due to getting a new role at my workplace last week, I've been absolutely snowed under with work. However, I'm hoping to get a few hours clear at the weekend to do some more updating of the mod; obviously, I'll be looking more carefully at the comments placed in this thread at that point. Hrafnkell has sent me some interesting info on the Nabataeans, so I may be able to squeeze in sometime else for them, but it all depends on that cursed building limit .
.Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
I noticed (finally got to the required tech) that both Golden Spearmen (3-7-1) and Indian Guards (2-4-1) upgrade to Vyuha Warrior (6-4-1). I had expected they would eventually upgrade to a new, superior defensive unit so just wanted to make sure this was intentional. It's a big improvement for the Indian Guards but I'm leaving my Golden Spearmen to take advantage of their defense.
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Playing as the Dacians:
- Build a Burebista's residence
- Build a courthouse - your BR disappears & shows up as being able to be built
- Rebuild the BR - the courthouse disappears & is on the buildable list
- ad infinitum
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
I'm having some weird things happening as the Norse...I build the farmhouse and suddenly I have to build it again. Never had anything happen like this before, but I've finally given up and just left it unbuilt.
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
I found this tidbit in Ozymandius' thread FUBAR EDITOR DOCUMENTATION:
“Improvements & Wonders”
* Just a quick note - It’s having a “Bombard” value (not a “Defense” value) which causes an Improvement to disappear when a Town grows to a City.
I checked the editor and noticed that the farmhouse has a Bombard value of 8 and a Defense value of 50. I am going to eliminate the bombard value and see if that fixes things with the farmhouse disappearing.
“Improvements & Wonders”
* Just a quick note - It’s having a “Bombard” value (not a “Defense” value) which causes an Improvement to disappear when a Town grows to a City.
I checked the editor and noticed that the farmhouse has a Bombard value of 8 and a Defense value of 50. I am going to eliminate the bombard value and see if that fixes things with the farmhouse disappearing.
againsttheflow
unpolitically uncorrect
That sounds like the power plant flag. You can only have one of the things that have it checked in your city at any one time. i.e. the solar, hydro, and other plants in normal civ.
Edit: I think the flag is actually called something like "replace other buildings with this flag checked"
Thanks for the info guys.
Sadly, RL issues mean that I've not got time at the moment to do any further updates. Nothing disastrous; I'm just very, very busy. I hope to get a spare day or two over the Christmas/New Year hols to update things further and I will still be around, just not able to spend much time on things over the next couple of weeks.
Sadly, RL issues mean that I've not got time at the moment to do any further updates. Nothing disastrous; I'm just very, very busy. I hope to get a spare day or two over the Christmas/New Year hols to update things further and I will still be around, just not able to spend much time on things over the next couple of weeks.
Blue Monkey
Archon Without Portfolio
Take your time. That just means we'll have a further opportunity to find more nits to pick.
Stormrage
Ever Present Taskmaster
`kay, I figure everyone I know reads this thread, I`m just popping in to say HI, I`M BACK!, now I have to go back to setting up my computer, see you guys in a few hours. Cheers!
Partizanac
Serbian Ambassador in CFC
glad to see you again Storm, I was a bit worried where are you 
Hrafnkell
Alheithinn
Yeah, that's alright, Rob. Lot's of mod to explore here and will enjoy doing it.
