Anno Domini update

[Plotinus]

You always make such lovely units - somehow they always have exactly the right level of detail, and your animations are very nice. Great work!

Culture groups: no idea!

 

[Virote_Considon]

Here's how I'd split the culture Groups (Note: * means that I don't know what culture they should go in, so I put them in the one I thought would be the most realistic):

1. Europe

06. Bulgars*
10. Dacia*
15. Goths
17. Iberii
22. Marcomanni
16. Huns
01. Anglo-Saxons (I dunno why I put this Germanic tribe in with the Celts...)

2. Mid-East

24. Nabatea
02. Armenia
26. Persia
25. Parthia
20. Kushan
29. Scythia
07. Carthage

3. Greek/Roman

03. Athens
08. Corinth
13. Etrusca
30. Sparta
31. Thrace
28. Rome
21. Macedonia
19. Illyria

4. African

04. Axum
11. Egypt
23. Meroe

5. Celtic

05. Brigantia
12. Eire
18. Iceni
27. Picts
14. Gauls
09. Coritani

Edited for changes to list

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

09. Coritani (Dunno who this is)

The Coritani were a British Celtic tribe, who were based in the East Midlands. So I guess that they should go in the Celtic group. Incidentally, has anyone seen any Celtic cities?

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Stormrage]

What about the Vandals, and Alans and so on? And the Norse? They weren`t important at the given time frame?

I just don`t know enough about the celts - the only ones that I`m 100 % sure are not from the brittish isles are the gauls and the anglo saxons. I`ve only heard of others being mentioned in connection with Britain. Sure, you`re brittish, and its your mod and thats all nice, but I think others may deserve a shot too?

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I thought everyone was okay with the civ choice. By all means if we need to discuss it again, we can, but I don't want to get too bogged down in wondering which civs to pick.

The criteria that was chosen was that the civ had to be active at some point between 500BC and 500AD. I felt that there was a nice balance to the civ list, even with plenty of British tribes in there. I felt it was better for me to do some civs that I know a reasonable amount about than those that I didn't!! The Vandals were (regrettably) cut out due to them sharing city names with Carthage - who would *have* to be in IMHO.

I must confess that there's quite a number of civs in the city list that I know absolutely nothing about, so I'm going to potentially need some help when it comes to city lists and other info .

 

[Stormrage]

Well, Google is your friend. I suspect there are a few members that could help you out. I`m not particulary against all them britts, but you know, just wanted to make sure all the angles (and saxons ) were covered

 

[Mentat]

Well, Google is your friend. I suspect there are a few members that could help you out. I`m not particulary against all them britts, but you know, just wanted to make sure all the angles (and saxons ) were covered

The Angels and Saxons definitely didn't start to migrate to the british isles before 400 AD. And both tribes are of germanic and not celtic origin.

Nabatea is definitely not European but Mid-East
Carthage would basically be Phoenician, so Mid-East aswell.
The Huns do not fit into any cultural group, but adopted a lot of both the Germanic and the Roman style of living after some time.

Question is if the culture groups make sense as they are?
There are two possibilties:
a.) they are formed by regions: Mediterranean, European, African, Mid-East
b.) or by tribes, ethnic relation: Celtic, Germanic, Semitic, Hamitic, Roman, Greek, Huns, Slavs etc.

Its easier to do it by regions of course, else you might end up with a very long list of culture groups.

 

[Stormrage]

Yes, mentat, I know, thats what we call a pun

I think groups should go by ethnic relation and so on.

Hey Rob, any chance of a European Archer too?

Also, I think Spartacus is too huge. I don`t think people with bodies like that existed before modern bodybuilding. Remember those "strongest people in the world" from the 1920-ies and such? Just regular big guys. I`d suspect Spartacus to be slim, agile, and more ...um.. Kirk Douglas like (The chin, man, the chin!) . Thracia is around today Albania right? So, I know quite a few Illyrs, and I can pretty much say they are not built like that.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Hey Rob, any chance of a European Archer too?

I could give it a try; I did a Coritani Archer a few months back, so I'll need to remember how I did it!! The European units above will need to be amended as I've found glitches in the other directions, but I'll sort it out.

After you mentioned about the Alans, I was thinking that maybe if we were going to make a little amendment, they could come in instead of the Bulgars?

Looking at the culture groups, I'm not sure that Egypt should be in the same group as Axum and Meroe - perhaps a Middle-East one for Egypt? Alternatively, though I don't really want to "blow" a culture group on one civ, maybe Axum and Meroe could move to the Middle-East group and give Egypt cities to suit it's unique style.

 

[Stormrage]

How bout Alans instead of Nabateans? Who are they anyway? Also, I think Alans were famous mercenaries, no? Horsemen in particular. Maybe I`m confusing that with something I`ve read in some "historic" novel, or even a fantasy one, but erhaps they don`t need a civ of their own, just a unit to represent their presence. Also, Vandals could be introduced trough barbarians

And I`ve edited my post about Spartacus

 

[Yorgos]

Wait, you're not thinking of making ALL the leaderheads and units all over again? Making some new ones makes sence, but all of them? You know how long it takes, and the material you used in the first Anno Domini was very good anyway.

 

[Antiochus VII]

How bout Alans instead of Nabateans? Who are they anyway?

The Nabataeans were the leading Arab tribe of the time who grew into a kingdom dominating western Arabia - the magnificent city of Petra was their capital. They'd be a high pick on my list both for importance and that their power was largely based on control of the trading networks so they could be played quite a bit differently from the numerous Germanic tribes.

edit: BUT I wouldn't mind trading the Bulgars for the Alans - I think for the period they'd be more important and more closely involved with the other civs present.

 

[Mentat]

Aye, Nabatea was much more important then the Alans.

Egypt would be clearly Hamitic, just aswell as Nubia(Meroe) and Axum.

 

[Stormrage]

Have you guys read the rest of that post? Right after I suggested not replacing the Nabateans with the Alans.

 

[Virote_Considon]

OK, I've now made an edit to the list, if you still need it. I've wiki'd the tribes I didn't know up (not a reliable source, I know, but I think I may have found what I needed).

 

[Stormrage]

I`d put Carthage with the Romans.

 

[Antiochus VII]

This is just something for dicussion based on some earlier comments but I did this grouping based on language (or closest cultural connection when like Etrusca no one was related). 3 main initial groups are present, with the Celts and Greeks focused on to find the last 2 groups. I like how this turned out for city styles (and general culture too) with two (the second one is rather big I'm afraid ) exceptions:

1) I'd love for Egypt to have it's own style
2) The empires of Persia, etc are in the same group with nomads

* indicates loose grouping, but best possible

Celts
05. Brigantia
09. Coritani
12. Eire
14. Gauls
18. Iceni
27. Picts

European
(German)
01. Anglo-Saxons
15. Goths
22. Marcomanni
(Illyrian-ish)
10. Dacia
19. Illyria - maybe in with Greco-Roman ESPECIALLY if Bulgars, Scythians move to European
31. Thrace - possibly Greco-Roman but ONLY IF Illyria is
(Hmmm?)
16. Huns*
17. Iberii*

Greco-Roman
03. Athens
08. Corinth
13. Etrusca*
21. Macedonia
28. Rome
30. Sparta

Iranian
02. Armenia
06. Bulgars (or Alans too if switched) - might not fit city style, would move to European
25. Parthia
26. Persia
29. Scythia - might not fit city style, would move to European
20. Kushan*

Afro-Asiatic
04. Axum
07. Carthage
11. Egypt
23. Meroe
24. Nabatea

With some maps to show the general idea...

 

[Mentat]

Have you guys read the rest of that post? Right after I suggested not replacing the Nabateans with the Alans.

Sorry about that Stormrage!

Carthage with Rome, hmm.
Well, Carthage was probably the only power that could have undone Rome at its "teenage". We do not know, how things would have evolved, if Hannibal had sacked/taken Rome, back in those days.

Edit: Ack I got it wrong once more! You meant the culture group, didn't you Storm?
But also in that case, I'd rather say "no". The phoenician culture that Carthage represented was clearly different from early Roman and Greek culture. Though they all mingled into the culture of the roman empire later on of course.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I've been doing a lot of thinking about the civ list following Stormrage's comments and revisiting the original mod. I've decided to make four of the civs fight for their places!! One civ that we've missed is Israel and personally I think they should be in there...but I'll let you guys decide!! The four places up for grabs are the ones belonging to the Bulgars, Marcomanni, Scythia and Thrace: obviously these four could be the four that end up in the mod, but I'll let you decide from the following:

01. Alans
02. Bulgars
03. Burgundians
04. Franks
05. Frisians
06. Israel
07. Lombards
08. Marcomanni
09. Suiones
10. Sythia
11. Thrace
12. Visigoths (changing the Goths to Ostrogoths)

It's certainly food for thought isn't it? Someone said somewhere that I should do two versions to cover all the tribes and I commented how much work that would mean. However, lets think about it. If I organise it correctly, I could convert the original Anno Domini mod as a template with all the various techs and buildings in there; that could then sit as a folder containing all the graphics/info required. Following that, I could create small mods that call upon that folder, each having it's own area of speciality. There could be as many civs as I like, but of course only 31 per small mod. This way, I could put in all the suggested civs and add to the "pool" of civs with each new small mod. So I guess if I do that, I'm only deciding upon who to have in there for the first version.

So, should this first version be a general "play the old world" mod? Should I focus upon the Mediterranean? Should I cut out the Africans and Middle-East countries and concentrate upon the Mediterranean and European civs? Or have I just gone mad (don't answer that )

I guess this post has digressed from it's initial point. What I'd like you to comment on is whether or not there should be a pool of civs, if ALL the civs mentioned thus far are worthy members of this pool and which area I should concentrate upon initially.

 

[Antiochus VII]

I like the idea of a general pool of civs that could be called on and (especially if this is the case) I think that the first batch of civs should be general including the Middle Eastern and African civs already chosen.

Of the 12 listed above I'd keep the Alans, Israel, Marcomanni, and Thrace (Scythia just left out).

Plus a brief ad for two of the above - In the 2nd century AD, the Marcomanni entered into a confederation with other peoples including the Quadi, Vandals, and Sarmatians (e.g. Alans), against the Roman Empire. This was probably driven by movements of larger tribes, like the Goths. According to the historian Eutropius, the forces of the Emperor Marcus Aurelius battled against the Marcomannic confederation for three years at the fortress of Carnuntum in Pannonia. Eutropius compared the war, and Marcus Aurelius' success against the Marcomanni and their allies, to the Punic Wars

P.S. Just off the top of my head, but perhaps the German tribes becoming prominent very late in the period could be left for the expansions or small mods and would also include the Vandals.