Another round of newbie questions

Now, I don't know how to recreate a 4000 BC save, except for hitting Play Last World, but I did that and put in all the same civs that you had. It won't be quite the same, but may be educational nonetheless.

Aabra, I just noticed in another thread on this page that you have and use CAII. You can open any .sav file from any game at any turn number with CAII just by double clicking on the file. Go to the "World Map" screen and right click on any tile. Then click on "Properties". That will bring up a little box with the world seed number, all the civs in the game in the correct order, and most of the world settings like temp and age of the world. What few items are not listed in that box can be found on the CAII "General" tab, which shows settings like random seed, culture flip, SGLs, difficulty level and victory types.

If you write those all down, you can go to Start New Game and come up with precisely the same game at 4000bc. :)
 
Thanks Harriet. I used seedbeast that ainwood did a long time before CAII. I should have known that this info would be in that utility somewhere although Play Last World was a smart move. It's not something that I use so it didn't even cross my mind!
 
I think Seedbeast came along before I even knew how to play the game. Now if he'd just get CAII to cook dinner and wash dishes, I think it would be complete. :D

I don't know how to use Play Last World to duplicate someone else's save. I always end up with something completely different when I try. I guess the important thing is our finding one way or another to help, huh? :)
 
Okay guys, so...since my Russians were decimated by the Zulus, I'm gonna try a new game and let's see how things go this time. I think I covered all the basics and the not-so-basics, so I don't have any more excuses to play bad now. I'll try to post my save game as soon as possible so that you can tell me if I'm on the right track or not. And, if things go well, I'm moving up to Regent! :king:
 
Aabra, I just noticed in another thread on this page that you have and use CAII. You can open any .sav file from any game at any turn number with CAII just by double clicking on the file. Go to the "World Map" screen and right click on any tile. Then click on "Properties". That will bring up a little box with the world seed number, all the civs in the game in the correct order, and most of the world settings like temp and age of the world. What few items are not listed in that box can be found on the CAII "General" tab, which shows settings like random seed, culture flip, SGLs, difficulty level and victory types.

If you write those all down, you can go to Start New Game and come up with precisely the same game at 4000bc. :)

Thanks. I always save at 4000 BC before I make any moves whatsoever, but that's handy to know for situations like this.

Okay guys, so...since my Russians were decimated by the Zulus, I'm gonna try a new game and let's see how things go this time. I think I covered all the basics and the not-so-basics, so I don't have any more excuses to play bad now. I'll try to post my save game as soon as possible so that you can tell me if I'm on the right track or not. And, if things go well, I'm moving up to Regent! :king:

Good luck & keep us posted.
 
Ok...last night I gave the Americans another shot, since I was pretty lucky with them another time...and man, things started out great for me. Not 1, not 2, but 3 fur tiles on my first city! And later, gems and horses! :king: (Yeah, I know, I'm a sucker for luxes).
I started an early fight with the Portuguese because the bastards decided to build a city far away from their capital and rightly below my own empire. Some nerve...but their archers, for some reason, are very very strong and decimated my horsemen. However, I have swordsmen and I'm also about to go into Republic.
I followed your advices and it really paid off! I already have 6 cities (I think) and I'm not even on Middle Age yet. My lux slider is on 20%, because of the luxes and the settlers I'm creating and I have around 250 gp.
I'll be posting two save files here pretty soon, so you guys can see my moves and give me tips. The other two tribes are the Koreans and the Indians, but I haven't met the other ones yet.
 
I addressed the warfare issue in your other thread. Good job grabbing luxes. Do you have them all hooked up? Assuming that your empire is all connected by roads, though, it can only make use of 1 set of gems, 1 set of furs, etc. In other words, don't waste worker-turns hooking up the second set of furs, when you can spend the same worker-turns hooking up a second luxury. A second set of furs won't bring any happiness, a second luxury will.

I don't know what your military situation is like, but I always experience a sharp drop in income (due to unit support costs) immediately after the change to Republic. You'll quickly make up for that sharp drop because your whole empire will start to grow faster.

Also, remember that MPs don't work in Republic, so your happiness situation will change & those units are freed up for defensive or warfare purposes.
 
I addressed the warfare issue in your other thread. Good job grabbing luxes. Do you have them all hooked up? Assuming that your empire is all connected by roads, though, it can only make use of 1 set of gems, 1 set of furs, etc. In other words, don't waste worker-turns hooking up the second set of furs, when you can spend the same worker-turns hooking up a second luxury. A second set of furs won't bring any happiness, a second luxury will.

I know, I'll start trading. I've yet to build a road to my closest rival tribe (that would be the Indians) and they have ivory...yeah, I should've done it earlier.

I don't know what your military situation is like, but I always experience a sharp drop in income (due to unit support costs) immediately after the change to Republic. You'll quickly make up for that sharp drop because your whole empire will start to grow faster.

Well, I'm in war with Portugal so, I am building a lot of military units.(Especially because, right now, I have a lot of workers and the only buildings available are Temple, Barracks, Granary and Courthouse). But, since we're on the subject, this government thing always confuses me. Some people say you should always go for Republic then Democracy as quickly as possible. But I'm also aware that Monarchy is good if you're in war times. What do you think?

Also, remember that MPs don't work in Republic, so your happiness situation will change & those units are freed up for defensive or warfare purposes.

MP's only work when they are garrisoned in the cities, right? If that's the case, then there's no problem, since I don't have a single unit garrisoned right now and my people are pretty happy (they should be!).
 
I know, I'll start trading. I've yet to build a road to my closest rival tribe (that would be the Indians) and they have ivory...yeah, I should've done it earlier.

I don't mean for it to sound like a pop quiz, but am glad to see that you at least know that you can't trade it until you've got a road connecting the capitals. (At least I think that's right.) I don't think it's enough to have a road to their empire. I think there has to be an unbroken road connection from capital to capital.


Well, I'm in war with Portugal so, I am building a lot of military units.(Especially because, right now, I have a lot of workers and the only buildings available are Temple, Barracks, Granary and Courthouse).

A good thing to build while at war. Do your military producers have barracks?

But, since we're on the subject, this government thing always confuses me. Some people say you should always go for Republic then Democracy as quickly as possible. But I'm also aware that Monarchy is good if you're in war times. What do you think?

Two things: (1) I think there are people around here who know much more about governments than I; and (2) I usually get into Republic and just stay there. I've never actually used Democracy, because I've never been so curious about it that I was willing to suffer another anarchy period to get to it. Republic makes an awful lot of money and is very flexible. Monarchy lets you cash rush items, without the drawback of war weariness, which makes it useful for All-War (AW) games.



MP's only work when they are garrisoned in the cities, right? If that's the case, then there's no problem, since I don't have a single unit garrisoned right now and my people are pretty happy (they should be!).

Yes. They must be in a city and only provide happiness support for that city. I just wanted you to be aware that once you get into Republic, any units garrisoned in interior (non-border) cities are doing nothing more than sitting and costing you gold.
 
I don't think it's enough to have a road to their empire. I think there has to be an unbroken road connection from capital to capital.

Yup, that's right. But if they already have a good road connection between their own cities, you don't really need to build roads all the way to the capital. You just have to find the connection.

A good thing to build while at war. Do your military producers have barracks?

Two. Do you think that's enough for a 6 cities empire (and growing)? I haven't build more because of maintenance costs. Also, on this subject, building a Temple allows me to expand my borders, right? Because I have some luxes pretty close to one of my cities, and if I'm able to expand my culture, they'll be on my territory.

I've never actually used Democracy, because I've never been so curious about it that I was willing to suffer another anarchy period to get to it.

I personally don't see that big deal with Anarchy. It doesn't seem to last that long anyway, maybe three turns. And if you got a pretty good situation going on, I don't think it puts you in so much disadvantage. You can use the time to invest in military offensives (which is the only thing you can do).

Monarchy lets you cash rush items, without the drawback of war weariness, which makes it useful for All-War (AW) games.

I wouldn't call my game an All-War yet. I am looking for global domination :evil: , but one step at a time. From the little experience that I have I don't feel like going for Monarchy unless it's absolutely necessary (ex: if you have no choice but to fight everybody all the time to get good resources).
 
Two. Do you think that's enough for a 6 cities empire (and growing)?

Probably. That is, after all, a third of your empire (for the moment).

Also, on this subject, building a Temple allows me to expand my borders, right? Because I have some luxes pretty close to one of my cities, and if I'm able to expand my culture, they'll be on my territory.

Yes, but . . . How close is "pretty close?" It might be that they'll stay pretty close until the AI plants a city closer to them and steals them from your territory. Have you roaded those luxes?


I personally don't see that big deal with Anarchy. It doesn't seem to last that long anyway, maybe three turns. And if you got a pretty good situation going on, I don't think it puts you in so much disadvantage. You can use the time to invest in military offensives (which is the only thing you can do).

I think that the maximum anarchy period is 7 turns (& someone correct me if I'm wrong). The first anarchy is unavoidable because the despotism penalty will cripple your empire if you stay in despo forever. By the time you get to demo, though, you should have a much, much larger empire. Every turn that you're in anarchy is lost production, lost beakers, etc. Why go through it twice if you don't have to? Don't misunderstand me -- there are plenty of players who do go through anarchy twice to get to demo or communism, and I'm sure there's a game situation in which it makes perfect sense to do so. I just haven't played a game in which it seemed to.
 
I think that the maximum anarchy period is 7 turns (& someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Close but not quite correct. As this post explains, it can last a little longer. (IIRC it was revealed by one of the people involved in the game design but I can't find the link to verify my thoughts.)

The reason why you experience low anarchy periods Rocha06 is that your empire is not very big when you've had a revolution. I feel that this may be changing as you gain more experience though so you should consider whather a revolution to get Democracy is worth the cost. There are a number of threads that discuss the 'best' government so I won't repeat my views here.

Going back to the horsemen issues, build a decent number of them to work in groups and try not to leave them open to attack. I'll attack a city from two squares out on the diagonal whenever possible and/or use defensive terrain to reduce losses before I can attack. I'll try to have enough to oversome the defenders plus any units just outside the city. Reducing the turns where units are in enemy territory and trying to limit losses will delay/stop the onset of War Weariness. Personally, unless the territory is dominated by hills/mountains/jungle/marsh, I'll take horses over swords pretty much everytime.

At some point Rocha you may want to play the Celts. Their sword UU is the Gallic Sword and has the same stats as your favoured ACs. You can build as many as you want as well. :) The bad news for you is that the Celts are not expansionist but you may discover the power of the agricultural civ through these. (Remember-food is power!)

I'd like to take a look at your save but I've had a tough day at work. I'm just catching up on posts made today and then going to bed. Maybe if I get up early tomorrow though... Sounds like a step in the right direction though.
 
I took a quick look at your saves. I didn't spend hours analyzing them and I haven't created a detailed log of what I did, but I do have a few ideas. So here's what I see (all notes taken from the later save).

First, check your preferences. Turn on "Always Wait at End of Turn," "Build Previous Unit," and "Ask for Build Orders." These will help you maintain closer control over your imperial production. Before I discovered those settings, I used to get terribly frustrated when these little 2-shield-per-turn towns would try to build the Colossus (without my immediately noticing), and they'd set themselves on a project that would take centuries to complete!

Second, your cities are still too far apart. I'm guessing that you spread them out so far in an attempt to gain control of the luxes, but the result is that you've left some very valuable resources untouched. As an example, there's a cow 3 NW & 1 NE of Washington that nobody can use. Just because it's inside your cultural borders doesn't mean that it can be worked by a citizen. For that to happen, it must be inside the city radius. The total area that can ever, ever, ever be worked by a city looks like this:

uxxxu
xxxxx
xxCxx
xxxxx
uxxxu

Where C is the city, "u" is unreachable, and x is a workable tile. You'll often hear it called the "city radius" or the "fat cross." The cow that I mentioned is not within that area for any of your cities. Crank out a settler and go claim that cow.

Next, happiness: You're running something like 70% science and 20% lux. You've got at least two clowns in your cities. It is not necessary for every citizen to be happy. A city only riots when it has more unhappy citizens than happy. You can put all you entertainers back to work, turn lux down to 0% and science up to 100%. That'll get you Republic in 4.

You've got about 4 of your cities building wealth. In fact, you've got your best cities building wealth. (Truth be told, IIRC, I had done the exact same thing in the first game I ever posted here). If you fiddle with Washington's citizens, you'll discover that you can get 15 shields per turn out of Washington. That's a new swordsman every other turn. I switched Washington, Philadelphia, Boston and NY all from wealth to military builds. Even after all of the above changes, you're still only at -3 gpt, which shouldn't be a problem, as you've got over 300 gold. If you're concerned about gold, go see Korea. Try to trade them Philosophy for gold and see how much you can get out of them. I didn't try this, so I don't know what they'll offer, but they've got a bunch of gold.

The Military Advisor (F3) says you're "strong" compared to everyone. He also says that under despotism, you're allowed 28 units as your empire currently stands, and that you've only got 18. That means you can build another 10 units before you have to start paying unit support costs, even if you don't found another city. If you do, the number of allowable units goes up. If you switch to Republic now (or, rather, as soon as you get Rep), the number of allowable units will drop, & the unit support will go up.

Finally, your military units still aren't in stacks. You've got swordsmen sleeping here and there, but you've got about 6 swords. If you set your towns to military builds (swords, archers, etc.), by the time you get all of your current swords rounded up into one stack, you will probably have 8-10 swords and maybe a couple of archers or horses thrown in. Set the spears to defending the towns you've got and go use those offensive units to, well, be offensive. :devil: Go teach Henry some manners! Once you get those units moving in a stack, you'll see that Henry's archers aren't so tough after all.

Edit: And I forgot to mention settlers. I know that it must sound like I don't want to build anything but military units. I don't. You've still got tons of space to expand before you really must go to war. You need to get more settlers out to establish more cities. Start mixing them in with military builds in cities that have food bonuses. You'd be surprised at how many more cites you'll be able to fit into your territory, even allowing them some room to grow, before you really run out of room.

Hope this has been of some help.
 
I've had a look and although I could go on for ages I've decided to be brief and just add my support a couple of points made by Aabraxan.

Firstly to my eyes it looks a lot better than before. This is the largest number of cities at this stage out of the saves you've posted. Still plenty of room for improvement if you think that building wealth is better than building settlers but, as I said before, a definite step in the right direction. Now please resolve never to build wealth until you reach at least Emperor level and even then not before the game-year 1800AD.

Read what Aabraxan says about the fat cross. Here's a picture of your territory as displayed in the CivAssistII utlity program:
Am01.JPG

The coloured tiles are tiles that your citizens can work (although some you cannot use yet as they are outside your cultural borders). Uncoloured cannot be used because they fall outside the reach of any of your citizens; they are ouside the fat cross. Not only am a drooling at the cows and wheat flood plain tiles that you are open to you but that you've declined to take advantage of, I'm also wondering why you've wasted so many worker turns mining and roading a mountain that you are never going to use, nevermind all the other tiles that your workers have improved. These tiles will never be used unless you build some more cities in the spaces you've left. Also these gaps are around Washington-your most productive area is around your capital so having built more settlers than before, don't waste them by building you new cities far away from your capital in the middle of a desert when you have lush grassland, cows, flood plains, etc all around your starting area.

My only other key point is that you still don't seem to have understood when to use the lux slider. Read Aabraxan's analysis of what you should do carefully as you are throwing money away every turn.

Good luck!
 
First, check your preferences. Turn on "Always Wait at End of Turn," "Build Previous Unit," and "Ask for Build Orders." These will help you maintain closer control over your imperial production. Before I discovered those settings, I used to get terribly frustrated when these little 2-shield-per-turn towns would try to build the Colossus (without my immediately noticing), and they'd set themselves on a project that would take centuries to complete!


Thanks for this!! As much as I try to keep an eye on my cities, occasionally something like this happens and yes, I get pissed.

Second, your cities are still too far apart. I'm guessing that you spread them out so far in an attempt to gain control of the luxes, but the result is that you've left some very valuable resources untouched.


That is true. Happiness is a major concern for me. I think I'm getting paranoid over it because, in this micromanaging thing, eventually I'll stop paying attention to one particular city and then, a riot occurs. That's why I'm such a lux freak.

Next, happiness: You're running something like 70% science and 20% lux. You've got at least two clowns in your cities. It is not necessary for every citizen to be happy. A city only riots when it has more unhappy citizens than happy. You can put all you entertainers back to work, turn lux down to 0% and science up to 100%. That'll get you Republic in 4.


Ok, but if I do this, the other problem mentioned above will probably happen. I don't look at the advisor's screen every tun.

The Military Advisor (F3) says you're "strong" compared to everyone. He also says that under despotism, you're allowed 28 units as your empire currently stands, and that you've only got 18. That means you can build another 10 units before you have to start paying unit support costs, even if you don't found another city.


What is unit support costs anyway? I thought that I had to pay for every unit out there. You mean that I only have to pay for the "extra" ones?

Finally, your military units still aren't in stacks. You've got swordsmen sleeping here and there, but you've got about 6 swords. If you set your towns to military builds (swords, archers, etc.), by the time you get all of your current swords rounded up into one stack, you will probably have 8-10 swords and maybe a couple of archers or horses thrown in. Set the spears to defending the towns you've got and go use those offensive units to, well, be offensive. :devil: Go teach Henry some manners! Once you get those units moving in a stack, you'll see that Henry's archers aren't so tough after all.


The problem is, I usually do this because I get scared of attacks. I may have 8 spearmen in stacks, but then someone might attack me from a different place and my units might not move quick enough to defend. While we're on this subject, you have no idea of what happened with this game later on. As I was still trying to increase my military to attack Henry, suddenly 10!!! horsemen barbs appeared out of nowhere!! 10!! :help: I couldn't be fast enough so they ravaged two of my cities and, yes, I abandoned that game out of frustration. I haven't given up, and I will try again this weekend. But that was a pain in the ass.
 
As I was still trying to increase my military to attack Henry, suddenly 10!!! horsemen barbs appeared out of nowhere!! 10!! :help:
That's got to be a barb uprising. That happens once two civs have entered the next age. Closer cities wil help you defend what is important and lead them towards what matters less.
 
First, don't get discouraged; you're on the right track. It's a complex game with a lot to keep in mind.

Happiness is a major concern for me. I think I'm getting paranoid over it because, in this micromanaging thing, eventually I'll stop paying attention to one particular city and then, a riot occurs. That's why I'm such a lux freak.

Next, happiness: You're running something like 70% science and 20% lux. You've got at least two clowns in your cities. It is not necessary for every citizen to be happy. A city only riots when it has more unhappy citizens than happy. You can put all you entertainers back to work, turn lux down to 0% and science up to 100%. That'll get you Republic in 4.

Ok, but if I do this, the other problem mentioned above will probably happen. I don't look at the advisor's screen every tun.

Not necessarily. Luxes will only get you so far. Because only 1 of each improves happiness and because there are a finite number of unique luxes in the game, you will have to learn to use the lux slider.

You've got tons of happy people. Unhappy citizens still work tiles. You just can't let them outnumber the happy ones. Until that point, the city won't riot. Learn to monitor your cities' happiness and growth. Go click on an unhappy citizen in the city view and they'll tell you why they're unhappy. If they're unhappy because "it's just way too crowded," with no other factors mentioned (such as "give peace a chance"), consider building a settler in that city. And you mentioned one solution in your own post: check with your advisor more frequently.

Also, if you have CivAssist II or MapStat (two utilities available for download), they'll help you monitor your cities' happiness and growth.

What is unit support costs anyway? I thought that I had to pay for every unit out there. You mean that I only have to pay for the "extra" ones?

Unit support is gold that you must pay for the upkeep of your units that exceed the number of units allowed. The units allowed is determined by the type of government and the composition of your empire (number of towns, number of cities & number of metros). The amount of gold that you must pay for each unit above that number is determined by your government type.

The problem is, I usually do this because I get scared of attacks. I may have 8 spearmen in stacks, but then someone might attack me from a different place and my units might not move quick enough to defend.

Another reason to put your cities closer together. I think we discussed this on the issue of horsemen. If you've got all of your cities linked by a road network, swords, spears and archers (1-move units) can attack any square within 3 spaces of their current location (location - move - move- attack). Horsemen can travel 6 spaces on your (or neutral) roaded tiles (location - move-move-move-move-move-attack). If you're at war with someone, any 1-move units will be stopped after one tile because they can't use your roads. (Bear in mind that you can't use theirs, either, though).

Also, IIUC, the AI civs are less likely to attack you if they think you're strong militarily, and they give more weight to offensive units than to defensive units. I'm not entirely clear how that works, but that's what I've read.

Also, I typically separate my attack force from my defense force. I figure out where I need a few defensive units and station them to play "zone defense," for lack of a better term. Everything else becomes the member of an attack force. That way, I'm not racing units out of enemy territory (where they can't use roads, anyway) to defend a city halfway across the continent. At this level, many players will tell you that you don't need defenders. Frankly, I would say build swords instead of spears. They're decent defenders and, if barbs step into your territory, they're better attackers. Put a unit or two on mountaintops around your borders for visibility.

While we're on this subject, you have no idea of what happened with this game later on. As I was still trying to increase my military to attack Henry, suddenly 10!!! horsemen barbs appeared out of nowhere!! 10!! :help: I couldn't be fast enough so they ravaged two of my cities . . . .

Tone's right. That's a barb uprising. What do you have barbs set at? Until you get a little better hang of the rest of the game, I wouldn't set them at anything above "restless." But don't remove them from the game if you want to take advantage of your expansionist trait. I didn't know that it happened when two civs entered the next age, as Tone points out. That means that two civs are in the middle ages. You need to expand and find them and trade. Take as much of their gold in trade as you can. That'll slow down their research.

Finally, look at Tone's nicely-colored map. See the area NE of Washington with the cow and the iron? Count the tiles. You could have a citizen working almost every one of those tiles without intruding on any other city's production capacity, if you place your city right.
 
suddenly 10!!! horsemen barbs appeared out of nowhere!! 10!! :help: I couldn't be fast enough so they ravaged two of my cities and, yes, I abandoned that game out of frustration.

just barbs. they can't conquer anything. all they can do is steal some gold and perhaps destroy production. matter of fact when i get these multi-horse uprisings early in the game i often prefer to just let them enter my cities rather than defending against them and losing my warriors to them. at the higher difficulty levels you know you no longer get a combat bonus against barbs.

so don't panic over barbarians. those uprisings come when barbs are set to "raging" and you will get overrun by them no matter what you do to prepare. the key thing is try to get your settlers and workers out of their way.
 
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