Another round of newbie questions

These will help you maintain closer control over your imperial production. Before I discovered those settings, I used to get terribly frustrated when these little 2-shield-per-turn towns would try to build the Colossus

You can also tell the governor to never build wonders in your cities, which means that you won't get that happening - you will only get wonders when you want them.

Barb horseman uprisings suck, but they are just annoying. I remember one GOTM where I was isolated and had built up about 500 gold... then the barbs showed up.... 3 turns later, I had just 100 :(

They are annoying, though...
 
Some more about barbs and managing their behaviour:

1. You can often discourage barb camps around your territory by posting lookouts around your perimeter. Barb camps will not sprout up in areas that are with sight of your towns or any military units.

2. Your military advisor will warn you of where new barb camps have sprouted: something like 'our scouts report that there are barbarians near town X'. Note that you may not know which direction to go in or actually how near they are. It may actually be close but it could be quite a distance away. Sometimes 'near' may truly be just a few tiles away but across a stretch of water, where another AI is. That'll then be the AI problem of course. ;) When all's said and done, it's not exactly high grade intelligence but it's a lot better than no warning at all.

3. They are actually 'broken' in C3C in that is possible to predict their movements to a high degree. Details are here. This can be a Good Thing but also a Bad Thing depending mainly upon whether you know about it. It can be abused to a massive degree by avoiding the axis mentioned or by placing a fortified spear (preferably 2 and on good terrain) in their way and watching them all impale themselves on your spikes. I recommend that you read the SirPleb link in this link. (In fact, I recommend to anyone that you read any post by SirPleb that you see anywhere. A true master of the game.) By changing the noaipatrol command (something I did a long while back), their movements are more unpredictable and they are more likely to attack units around them rather than sit back and wait, multiplying in their camps until some more soul wanders onto their axis and wakes them all up.

4. If you get a big uprising on your doorstep and don't have sufficient military to cope with them well, as rysingsun suns says, they are just barbs and cannot conquer anything. If they attack a town and win, they may reduce your population, spoil a build or steal a proportion of your cash (sorry, I don't know the percentage) but unlike civ4 they cannot take any of your towns away from you. If you've got them 'fixed' it is often best to leave a corrupt town undefended and let them all stream into it. If it is a small population, they can't reduce it by much. If it is corrupt, you won't have many shields in the bin to lose to the build. If you have stacks of cash, try and spend it before they get there! Buy techs, lend it out to the AI in return for them giving you gpt (unlikely to happen much at Warlord but will be useful as you move up the levels). If all else fails you may even consider a few gifts to the AI at the crucial time in the turn just before they all stream into your town. It'll make them very happy with you and if you have the tech lead you can reclaim the gold from the AIs by selling them a tech as soon as the barbs have pillages your weak city and dispersed. You can never reclaim your gold from the barbs though so this last option is worth considering as long as you can get your gold back.

If the barbs are broken, you'll read the SirPleb link in the link and decide whether to stand and fight or let them pillage the town in their path. Same rules as above if you choose the latter. If you choose to fight, choose your defensive terrain carefully and bear in mind the attack bonus mentioned in the next point to decide whether you want to pick them off turn by turn.

5. Many players use the barb camps to help train their troops and get elites. On the lower levels you have an attack bonus vs the AI (at Warlord this makes your units twice as strong vs barbs but only when they attack) and so you are unlike to lose against a barb when attacking. You can either disperse the camps by killing the defending unit, thus gaining some gold, or only attack when there is more than one unit, thus ensuring that a new camp doesn't then spring up somewhere else in the next few turns and giving your units a chance of promotion every few turns. Barbs will not allow an elite to generate a Military Great Leader so once you have gained an elite unit, make sure that another vet can take his place and save that elite for when you're fighting the AI rival civs.

6. As I said before, consider the setting carefully. Choosing Sedentary barbs when you start a new game gives you the Goody Huts without the nasty barb camps springing up. I find other barb settings more fun but I'll usually not have them above Sedentary when I'm making a Hall of Fame attempt as they'll stop my empire development. Your choice!
 
2. Your military advisor will warn you of where new barb camps have sprouted: something like 'our scouts report that there are barbarians near town X'. Note that you may not know which direction to go in or actually how near they are. It may actually be close but it could be quite a distance away. Sometimes 'near' may truly be just a few tiles away but across a stretch of water, where another AI is. That'll then be the AI problem of course. ;) When all's said and done, it's not exactly high grade intelligence but it's a lot better than no warning at all.
The camp has to be less than 10 tiles from a city in case anyone is curious. (Edit: I assumed it is independent of map size; if not, this is true for standard.)

If they attack a town and win, they may reduce your population, spoil a build or steal a proportion of your cash (sorry, I don't know the percentage) but unlike civ4 they cannot take any of your towns away from you.
They'll go for shields if more than 10 shields are in the box, then citizens, then gold (amount of gold/number of cities, although I wouldn't be surprised if it is weighted if some cities are cities and some are towns), then <=10 shields.
 
Nice one, Tim! I only get barb uprisings for the MA and at that stage in the game I'll rarely have cities. Useful information. :goodjob:
 
The camp has to be less than 10 tiles from a city in case anyone is curious.

I saw you post that in another thread a couple weeks ago and it's been extremely helpful with barb hunting in my recent games. I've completely changed the way I look for them now. Thank you. :goodjob:

Good info also on what the barbs will go after. I've always been very much afraid of them and still won't play with them above roaming, which is very controllable. Based on what you and others have said, I guess I'll try some restless and see what happens. They don't sound quite so bad, but I'm such a coward. :p
 
Okay guys, I tried a new one. I followed the advice (don't remember if it was Tone or Aabraxan) and decided to go for the Celts. And boy, did it work! I mean, so far. I think finally understood the city distribution scheme. My empire is one of the largest, I'm technically advanced and also have a large military. I'll explain the following scenario:

1-Ever since the beginning of the game I was with war with the Scandinavians. If I remember correctly, they started it (I think they demanded something, I refused and there you go). It didn't bother me so much until they allied themselves with the Mongols! That was nasty! But, apparently, the mongols weren't very interested, and only sent 1 stack to attack me.

2-AND, a while after that, I got into a fight with the Ottomans, who suffered miserably as I took their first capital. You can see that they are almost vanquished. Just a few more turns...

3-My biggest mistake with this game was going for Republic when I had a large military. The transition made me spend 54 gpt, reducing drastically my research. I had to stop creating units and start fighting other tribes to reduce them. I really should have gone for Monarchy, at least during war times.

4-I only conquered 1 Ottoman city (Istanbul) and razed 2 others. I know that razing is bad for reputation, but they already hate me anyway so...I thought it would be a bad idea at that time to have two cities so far away from my capital. Maybe I should have transferred my capital. What do you guys think?

5-I haven't made contact with all tribes, as they are on another continent. I meant to ask, how can I send ships to another continent, my galley only sails on shores. (Hence I'm not very good with seafaring).

6-My people were quite unhappy due to war weariness. I decided to offer a peace treaty to the Ottomans (and they also gave me all their money and a city to boot) and I have been fine with the Mongols and the Scandinavians for a while now. They still hate me though.

7-I built the Mausoleum and the Forbidden Palace, simply because it was relatively easy (Mausoleum at 20 turns, Forbidden at 35) and I couldn't build any more military units at the time. It sucks to be in Republic during war.

8-On this save file, I'm preparing to strike the Ottomans again and, hopefully, vanish them. But I really don't know what to do next (other than expand). Both Mongols and Scandinavians have a pretty large empire. I'll probably strike the Scands, as they are closer to my borders.
 

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  • Brennus of the Celts, 1010 AD.SAV
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I can't look at the save right now, but it sounds like some things are beginning to really "click into place" for you. In virtually every game I play, I make the switch to Republic and my income drops dramatically. It makes for some rough going at first, but the benefits of Republic will soon outrun any drawbacks.

It was Tone who suggested the Celts. I've never played them myself, because of that religious trait. I don't plan on switching governments more than once, and I'm probably shooting for a conquest win, so I don't build a lot of temples. That said, I need to give the Celts try soon. Glad to hear that they're working out for you.

I'm not sure how razing cities affects reputation or attitude, so I'll ask anyone who knows to chime in here. That said, I raze quite a few cities in my wars.

You said that you made peace with the Ottomans and that you plan to strike at them again. How long ago did you make peace? Be very wary of breaking 20-turn deals.
 
I meant to ask, how can I send ships to another continent, my galley only sails on shores.

It will sail on ocean, at least as long as it doesn't sink. If you use the mouse to try to set a course several tiles out into the ocean, the little disk with arrows looks like you can't go there & the galley won't. If you move it one tile at a time, off your galley goes into deep waters. There's a chance every turn that it's out there that it will sink in deep waters, though.
 
3-My biggest mistake with this game was going for Republic when I had a large military. The transition made me spend 54 gpt, reducing drastically my research. I had to stop creating units and start fighting other tribes to reduce them. I really should have gone for Monarchy, at least during war times.

I disagree, your biggest mistake was empire mismanagement.
But then again, managing a republic might be a bit more difficult to get right than managing non-representative governments.

But I'd like to let you know I almost always use republic and I war quite a lot. Usually I'm starting them myself, simply by declaring outright war to the AI, because I want to have their land.

If you do get it right the returns for republic are usually bigger.

The transition made me spend 54 gpt, reducing drastically my research.

You must keep in mind that what matters for your research rate is the absolute number of commerce that is spend on science. The sliders only tell you the relative number of commerce.

Under republic, any tile that grands you at least 1 commerce, will now grand you 1 extra commerce.
To put it very bluntly: republic doubles your commerce! 50% science under republic is about the same as 100% science under despotism or monarchy.
Well, not exactly, due to the corruption model, and due to the effect of libraries and marketplaces, but more or less.

Switching to republic when your cities are still very small, might put you back a bit, because of the ratio of population generating commerce and units that need support.
So It may be useful to stay in despotism a while longer until your cities had a chance to grow a bit.
 
Rocha06 said:
5-I haven't made contact with all tribes, as they are on another continent. I meant to ask, how can I send ships to another continent, my galley only sails on shores.
Reading the forums here, you may notice references to "suicide galleys". There is always a chance your boats may sink until you reach the techs needed to allow sea and ocean travel, but it's only a chance....about 50% I believe (and only 25% for seafaring civs). If you send out enough boats, eventually one will make it to the other continent(s) or islands. The ability to trade techs with civs across the water and then trade them on to civs on your continent for a profit is very powerful in the game.

Yes, the switch to Republic can be very painful at first, but well worth it in the long run. MAS already made some excellent comments. I'll also put in my $.02. The first thing I usually do after becoming a Republic is to look around my empire at my MP units, especially in the core which is likely to be the farthest from the enemy, and I'll disband any regular warriors (and maybe regular archers). You don't need MPs in Republic as they no longer help prevent riots, and regular units usually aren't worth upgrading. Disbanding units will save you 2gold each, and if you disband them in a town which is building something, you get about 2 shields back to apply to your new build. (This does NOT work for wonders.)

Then I'll look at my sliders and treasury to see how much lower I have to move the science slider. I'll also look at the towns in my empire to see how close they are to growing to size 7...that's the size at which unit support goes from 1 unit (population 1-6) to 3 units (population 7-12). Actively try to get your towns to grow, and your unit costs become quite managable.

Republic is a great government for most games except for "Always War".
 
It was Tone who suggested the Celts. I've never played them myself, because of that religious trait. I don't plan on switching governments more than once, and I'm probably shooting for a conquest win, so I don't build a lot of temples. That said, I need to give the Celts try soon. Glad to hear that they're working out for you.

Well, I haven't reached Democracy yet (I mean, in any game...haven't got past Middle Age...) but it certainly looks appealing...less corruption and 0 cost for unit suppot. Why not? Religious civs have the advantage of less riot turns. I decided to built some Temples and Courthouses(but no Colosseum) , even though I know they are not so necessary. But that's just because I had to build something and I was undecided about where I was going to expand my empire.

I'm not sure how razing cities affects reputation or attitude, so I'll ask anyone who knows to chime in here. That said, I raze quite a few cities in my wars.

I read that somewhere...it seems other civs frown upon razing. But I have no regrets. On that note, I failed miserably trying to trade techs with them. I could, in the beginning, but as they were getting angry at me(what, with all those wars and stuff) they just became unreasonable. Because of my transition to Republic, I wasn't the first to enter MA. Construction took a while due of war weariness and lack of money. I tried to trade with them but they were basically asking for all of my money. Things are better now though.

You said that you made peace with the Ottomans and that you plan to strike at them again. How long ago did you make peace? Be very wary of breaking 20-turn deals.

Oh...gooood point. I completely forgot about that. What is the punishment, exactly?
 
Well, I haven't reached Democracy yet (I mean, in any game...haven't got past Middle Age...) but it certainly looks appealing...less corruption and 0 cost for unit suppot.

I don't think this is accurate. Democracy doesn't have zero cost for unit support, it has zero unit support. There's a huge difference. The first would mean a free military. The second means that you pay for each and every unit out there. As always, someone correct me if I'm wrong.


On that note, I failed miserably trying to trade techs with them. I could, in the beginning, but as they were getting angry at me(what, with all those wars and stuff) they just became unreasonable. Because of my transition to Republic, I wasn't the first to enter MA. Construction took a while due of war weariness and lack of money. I tried to trade with them but they were basically asking for all of my money. Things are better now though.



Oh...gooood point. I completely forgot about that. What is the punishment, exactly?

I'm going to leave these questions for others. I still get confused over attitude and reputation and their effects on diplomacy and trade. I don't want to go giving you advice in an area where I seriously might not have much of a clue what I'm talking about.
 
I don't think this is accurate. Democracy doesn't have zero cost for unit support, it has zero unit support. There's a huge difference. The first would mean a free military. The second means that you pay for each and every unit out there. As always, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

No, you're right. Damn it, you have to be loaded to make it into Democracy. Maybe Communism...:mischief:
 
That is correct. However, the cost per unit is only 1 GPT, as opposed to 2 for republic. If you have large numbers of units over the republic limit, democracy will save you a fair amount of money, especially if you can get the extra core cities up to metros.
 
Well, here is my update. I finally got rid of the Ottomans...I didn't get a lot of things for it, just a few gold, a few cities and a lot of satisfaction. But now every tribe is annoyed at me. Or furious. This sucks because I feel back on tech due to war weariness and I should take advantage of my peace time to trade like hell. Any ideas on how to put me on their good side?

And since this is the furthest I've ever been, I'm getting really confused on managing all of my cities. I know that now is the time to increase my miltary, so I can start my war against the Scands soon. But, at the same time, I'm trying to spend most of my money on speeding up my research. AND I still have to keep my people happy. Which is becoming difficult, since most of my cities are pretty big (I did it to increase my unit support limit) and, at this moment, I have no more room to expand, so creating settlers is pretty useless. Maybe I should start building banks, so I can have more money.

I gotta be honest...I'm getting scared now:help: :help: :help: Need tips more than ever.
 

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  • Brennus of the Celts, 1445 AD.SAV
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I just got done looking at your 1010 AD save. I've got good news, and I've got bad news.

The good news:
Your city placement is much, much better than the last saved I looked at. You're doing a much better job of making sure that you don't have a lot of wasted space, where nobody's ever going to be able to use the tiles.

Your military is now operating in much better stacks. I saw a stack of cats and medieval infantry. That's going to make you war machine much more efficient in terms of kill ratio.

The bad news:
You're still way too concerned about happiness. When I opened the save, you were at 40% science, 40% lux & had some clowns. There's absolutely no need for a single clown in that save. Make them earn their keep. Turn the lux slider down. I got it safely down to 30%, even after putting all clowns back to work. I think I got it down to 20% with one specialist at work in your whole empire. You can also help control happiness issues by hiring other specialists, such as scientists and tax collectors. Try them out.

You've got 400 gold. Why? What are you going to do with it? You're begging the AI to come demand it from you. Spend it. Being a republic means that you can cash-rush builds (but not wonders).

Techs: You're behind in techs. You've got 400 gold and no techs to sell. That's bad. One thing about techs is that you can only see those techs that you'd be able to buy. You can only buy a tech for which you have the prerequisites. The Mongols have Monotheism. I didn't look to see if they've got Feudalism, but if they do, Chivalry's not far off for them (assuming they don't have it already). Chivalry for the Mongols means Keshiks. That's their unique unit (UU). If they win a combat with a Keshik, it kicks off their Golden Age. You don't want that.

The Military Advisor says that compared to:
  • the Ottomans, you're strong;
  • the Mongols, you're average;
  • the Scandanavians, you're weak;
  • the Portugese, you're weak;
  • the French, you're weak.

Militarily, you've got:
  • 1 archer
  • 1 spear
  • 6 pikes
  • 2 catapults
  • 1 Gallic Swordsman
  • 7 MI
  • 1 curragh
  • 1 galley

And you're only building 1 archer right now. That build is 5 turns from completion. You've got 15 cities and 18 military units.

Builds: You're building Sun Tzu's Art of War in Entremont. At 18 spt, it's 21 turns out. How many medieval infantry could you build in that time? You're so far into it that backing out (switching to any other build) will cost you something like 155 shields. That's a bunch of wasted shields or your best military producer out of action for a very long time.

In fact, you only have one military build going: an archer at Eboracum and it's 5 turns out.

No settlers in production. If your cities are getting overcrowded, thin 'em out. Build settlers. More settlers=more cities=more unit support, more gold, more land, . . .

Keep working at it. You're much improved over the last save.
 
. . . . I have no more room to expand, so creating settlers is pretty useless. . . .

Repeat after me, please:
  • Settlers are never useless
  • Settlers are never useless
  • Settlers are never useless

Exactly what do you expect to fill territory with after you've razed the AI cities if you don't build settlers?!? :gripe:

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, let's talk about this 1445 AD save. First of all, you're in a much better position than you were in 1010 AD. You're first in everything except land, and you're 4th there. The leader in land (the Mongols) only has you beat by about 70 tiles, but you've got 7 more cities than they do. Who do you think has more production capacity?

Quit worrying so much about happiness. I realize that you may not have seen my last post yet, but you're still spending too much on happiness & hiring way too many clowns. Try using the other specialists to control happiness. Try building settlers to reduce overcrowding.

You've got 3 Wonders in Entremont. Did you read the War Academy article on Wonder Addiction? The first step is admitting you have a problem. Wonders are like dessert. Eat your veggies first. You can win without building them, and capturing them is a lot of fun.

Military Advisor says that compared to the:
  • Mongols, you're average
  • Scandanavians, you're average
  • Portugese, you're strong
  • Koreans, you're strong
  • French, you're average
  • Indians, you're strong

Note that in 3 centuries, you've improved militarily. You're not weak compared to anyone now.

I didn't go in depth on this save, but two things jumped out at me:
1) Nemausus: It's at size 6, and has no fresh water and no aqeduct. That means it can't grow any more. It's wasting at least 4 food per turn and it has a granary (for which you are paying maintenance). There's a clown. It's building a bank. That bank is 18 turns out. Even at 3 shields per turn, that's a long time. It should be building a settler. It will regrow quickly and can build another one. You will eventually go to war again and you will need settlers to fill the land from which you'll evacuate the AI.

2) Alesia: It's a 21 shield per turn city. It has a barracks. And it's building wealth. Didn't someone make you promise not to build wealth? At 21 shields per turn with a barracks, that's a veteran knight every 3 turns, or a veteran longbow every 2 turns.

You've fallen into one basic trap that many, if not most, new players fall into. (And I include myself in this, for I did the exact same thing.) You're trying to build every building in every city. Every one of those buildings is costing you gold every turn, in addition to the time and shields spent building them. It adds up and it adds up quickly. Learn this phrase and learn it well, for you will hear it around here: Your cities do not need anything. The question is: What does your empire need your cities to have?
 
I haven't opened your save, but one thing jumped out at me from reading Aabra's reply...your military

1 Gallic Swordsman
7 MI

Um, if you're building Medieval Infrantry now, it probably means you can no longer build Gallic Swords. Have you had your Golden Age yet? Gallics are one of the best Ancient Age/Early Medieval UU's in the game and, with their movement of 2, much more flexible than MI's. The Gallics upgrade to MI's at zero cost because they really are not an improvement. If it were me, I'd still be building Gallics if at all possible.

The other thing I noticed is your concern with the AI attitude. An AI can be furious with you, but if your reputation is good, they will still trade with you and they will still form military alliances with you. Always try to keep your reputation clean (don't break deals or attack while already in their territory), but their attitude is hardly worth concerning yourself with. Attitude and Reputation are two completely separate things. :)

Edit: I just noticed that this was regarding the 1010ad save and you've since posted one for 14??ad.

BTW, listen to Aabra. I think he gives very good advice. :D
 
You've fallen into one basic trap that many, if not most, new players fall into. (And I include myself in this, for I did the exact same thing.) You're trying to build every building in every city. Every one of those buildings is costing you gold every turn, in addition to the time and shields spent building them. It adds up and it adds up quickly. Learn this phrase and learn it well, for you will hear it around here: Your cities do not need anything. The question is: What does your empire need your cities to have?
Rocha. Read this everytime you are about to start a session of civ! The bit in bold; place it on top of the television, have it engraved into your bathroom mirror, commission someone to produce a doormat with it on, print it out and replace any pictures on the walls with this, repeat it three times every day when you get up and when you go to bed. OK, well I might be going slightly over the top but it's great advice, you'll see it given by a number of people but if you follow it you'll be a much better player.

Now for some additional comments:

1. As regards to city placement you seem to be getting the hang of things. This looks so much better than before IMO. With regards to building MoM because there was nothing else to build, build military units everytime. I'll expand upon this point in a minute.

2. Building the FP OTOH was not a bad thing at all. In fact it was a great move! Just don't build it because you've got nothing else to do. I think that I said this before but it reduces corruption in all cities so build it as soon as possible. 200 shields is great value for this small wonder. Note that this is one of the reasons why your corruption is lower than when you played the other games. This is absolutely nothing to do with playing as the Celts. The civs that are commercial will give you lower corruption. Now probably my favourite civ (if I actually have one) is the Iroquois. Their UU is a 3 point attack horse, they are commertial and agricultural. Once you are ready for another change, try these guys out!

3. The reason why I suggested the Celts were that the UU is just the same as the Ancient Cavs you like but it was a way of tempting you into playing a civ that was Agricultural. :mischief: If that second bit was a little devious then I'm sorry but 'all's well that ends well'. Note that the main advantages that you have as the celts, apart from a great UU, are +1 food per city (i.e. greater growth), cheaper 'ducts (i.e. greater growth potential), cheaper temples/caths and minimal anarchy. The first two are due to the AGR trait and are much more useful IMO that the ones for REL.

4. You are trying to keep tabs on your cash in some ways but not in others. You are worried about your research capacity but you'd rather keep the lux slider higher than it need to be rather than spending that extra cash on reserch. You are worried about your unit upkeep but you are not worried about city maintenance. I find this very strange. You are happy to build granaries in every town but you are not happy to build another knight in a great town with a rax. Please read the quote at the top of the page again before reading on...















Have you actually read it again?;)















As long as you have read it again I'll continue. :D If you build something that you don't need, it will cost you money and for no good reason. You don't need granaries in every city and yet they are costing you money every turn. (Build them in a couple of food rich towns when expanding to help pump those cities out but no more). Military units are a different matter. They may cost you money but if you build a few stacks of them, you then go a grab a few cities from a rival civ thus improving your unit allowance and thus you can build more units to grab more cities and so the cycle repeats and you end up owning the whole continent. Consider unit costs an investment for the future.

What to do next
Consider the following points.

From a quick look at the game I would prepare for war with the Vikings by placing my units in attack/defence positions asap. Meanwhile all those useless builds would be converted to knights AND DON'T STOP BUILDING UNITS 'cos when you've finished with the Vikings you are going to take on your other major rival, aren't you?!;) I'd make Bodo my first target, not because of the ivory (although its a nice incentive) but because it has their only (known) source of salt.

Worried about cash? Consider this trade:
Spoiler :

I'd think twice about trading a 'modern' strategic resource to anyone but do it when I think that it's safe. In this case they are on a different continent and are not the runaway civ so I think that this a wise trade. I'm sure that you'll be keen to take their money-I would be! Also consider further map trades once you have the French WM. This should help you determine whether the vikings have a second source of salt.

Worried about tech progress? Well don't be too concerned as the Vikings will be on their knees soon and will be happy to give you every tech they know for you to leave them alone but if you want Chemistry now, consider this:
Spoiler :

Giving luxes to a large civ can be dangerous but I think that you've ensured that they will never be considered 'large'.;)

Watch out for Viking beserks. Their UU replaces the longbow with a 6 attack point unit that can attack land units from boats. This means that you capital is at risk. Luckily the AI is not very good at using these units and they are expensive but be very wary of any viking galleys heading towards your coastal cities.

Good Luck!

ps re the business about 20 turn deals. Aabra was wise to stop you from breaking that as you will have trashed your trading rep. There is an article in the War Acadamy on this so take a look. It doesn't mention breaking PTs in there IIRC but they are the same as any 20 turn deal. If you are the one that breaks a 20 turn deal, your trading options are severly restricted for the remainder of the game. (Neither of the two deals above would have been possible) I'll keep it at that as the article explains it really well IMO but please post any questions if you wish.

pps have you downloaded CivAssistII or MapStat yet? Either one of these will help you stop riots and thus stop you from overcompensating on the lux slider.
 
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