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[GS] Antarctic Late Summer Patch Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Aristos, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. Takfloyd

    Takfloyd Chieftain

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    Very specific bugs like the airstrips thing can wait for the next bigger patch. Let's be grateful that Firaxis fixed the major trade issues, that was really the only truly pressing issue and I had been worried it wouldn't be fixed until months from now.

    I wish they could have both click-and-click and click-and-drag options for the great works though. Click-and-click was never intuitive for me. But they had to revert it for accessibility reasons and because it was impossible to move great works if you had to scroll to see the destination building.
     
  2. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Chieftain

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    A bit unfair - this is a hotfix and we waited for it eagerly. It fixed the MAJOR issue (hopefully - haven't tested yet) +great works...

    Complaining now because of something completely different hasn't been fixed yet is a bit...cheap. Sorry, but I don't share your opinion! Thanks, FXS! Good job and keep them coming! :thumbsup:
     
    King Rad, shaglio, Meluhhan and 6 others like this.
  3. Tuvok694

    Tuvok694 Chieftain

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    Wow, the patch has 20MB. Normally, I can download this in 2 seconds, but Steam is working on that for 20 minutes now and it's still not finished.
     
  4. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    People keep mentioning this problem as though dshirk here didn't just say it was "Squashed".
     
  5. _ViKinG_

    _ViKinG_ Chieftain

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    its more complain about the patch if anything. the hotfix is just an small update anyway. your major issues is not fixing our wanted major issues fix with the game. thats your opinion yes
     
  6. Takfloyd

    Takfloyd Chieftain

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    When he says squashed, he means in the next patch, not in the current live version of the game. At least from what I've seen on the bug report forum.
     
  7. Giskler

    Giskler +1 Sleuthing

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    Oh thank all the heavens that the great works screen has been reverted. Best patch ever just for that.
     
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  8. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    Started a new game already to test the patch, still early, but trades seem "normal" so far. Maybe a little weak. Giglamesh offering me only 1 gpt and some loose gold for 30 horses.

    Had to restart after Zulus took one of my cities (I'm Chandragupta). he got Oligarchy bonus so early, I couldn't really counter that.
     
  9. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

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    Nice to see the hotfix, but since the hotfix only covered, well, the hotfixes, I'll be waiting for the actual update to dust the game off.

    Not meant as snark, because it actually is nice to see the hotfix, especially the reversion of one change (which gives me hope that the either might go back to allowing climate effects to be included on the disaster scale slider or to having climate effects have their own slider).
     
  10. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    I hope that one is an outlier. My fear exactly with all the whining about the higher cost of strats and luxes was that the "remedy" would go all the way back to the other extreme, making "strategic" resources so cheap that they cease to be, well, strategic. Can you keep us posted on how it progresses?
     
  11. Takfloyd

    Takfloyd Chieftain

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    The AI not offering a lot of gold for a strategic resource is part of the intended design of having them evaluate resources better - they are not supposed to be willing to pay a lot for a resource they don't really need. This prevents exploiting the AI by pushing a lot of useless resources on them for gold.

    if it works properly, the AI also should be willing to pay more for them when they actually need them though.
     
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  12. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    Not offering a lot on luxuries either. But I'm not well liked due to wiping out Spain and Arabia, so we'll see how that progresses. I can get maybe 1 or 2 gpt for a lux.
     
  13. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    I will start testing soonish... we'll see. I would hate for them to have catered to the masses and gone back to cheap resources.
     
  14. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    Well done FXS! You guys are really working hard!

    Agreed!

    And posting in the Forums! Awesome!

    You guys are knocking it out of the park!

    Reverting looks like a quick fix. FXS might tweak this some more and reintroduce it in a later patch.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
    King Rad likes this.
  15. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    Do people have thoughts about what they’d like to see on the next patch?

    I started a thread here to discuss the next patch, but so far there’s not many comments.

    @Sostratus surely you’d have some thoughts on such a weighty topic?
     
  16. bbbt

    bbbt Warlord

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    Especially with full 'desertification' it could be cool to have a climate effects slider that was tied to chopping/power production bonuses - i.e. top level gives larger chopping bonus but severer and earlier climate effects. Granted, at this point that would likely just help the player and hinder the AI more.
     
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  17. Takfloyd

    Takfloyd Chieftain

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    Results from 10 minutes of testing the new trade AI

    I went to an AI to see how they value my oil in the hotfixed game. I offered various amounts of oil and asked what Lautaro was willing to give in return.

    • At first he had 2 oil. He was willing to pay an increasing amount of gold for additional oil, up until my offer reached 11 oil, for which he was willing to pay 9 GPT and 16 gold.
    • Past that point, he was not willing to pay a single extra gold for any amount of oil
    • I took the deal, then went back to trade for more
    • Now the maximum amount of oil he wanted to pay for was 8 oil, for which he paid 7 GPT and 4 gold
    • After taking that deal I returned to him again. He was now willing to pay 9 GPT and 16 gold for 11 oil again.
    • This repeats for any amount of future deals.
    • It's a hard limit, the AI pays an equal amount more for each additional iron until that limit is reached, then it pays nothing more
    Conclusion: This is a very poor, hardcoded stopgap fix, better than nothing but still broken. Once you identify the number of resources the AI wants to pay for, you can just keep trading that amount over and over. It's the same exploit from before the first patch really, where you could trade 1 resource unit at a time and get better returns. It adds some really obnoxious micromanagement to the trading, because if you don't bother identifying the amount of resources the AI will pay for, you are basically giving them any additional resources for free. So you have to ask them about the amounts one by one, going into the submenu to edit the number of resources and removing the gold from the AI's side of the table for every time you ask.

    I really hope Firaxis will take a more thorough look at the trade AI and the trade screen UI for the next patch. There are simple ways to go about fixing this, like being able to drag a slider under the iron icon to increase or decrease the amount, with a visual indicator of the point where the AI doesn't want more of it, instead of the clunky interface we have now. And the AI needs to know better what it wants, not just on a trade-by-trade basis, so you can't exploit it by making the same deal over and over.

    Edit: Uranium can be sold to most of the AIs at 11 GPT and 6 gold for 3 uranium. Again, they won't pay more than that for any amount, but they will take this deal over and over as many times as you want. However, it seems AIs that are behind in tech and can't use uranium won't pay more than 1 gold for any amount of it.

    11 GPT and 6 gold is also the exact amount all the AIs are willing to pay for a luxury, if they want one. If they don't want it, they only pay 1 gold. However, by increasing the amount of luxuries you trade them until a threshold is reached, they become willing to pay... 11 GPT and 6 gold for all of them. If you add more luxuries to the table, they will not pay any extra gold until another threshold is reached, at which point they double their offer. An example:

    1 luxury: 1 gold
    2 luxuries: 11 GPT and 6 gold
    3 luxuries: 11 GPT and 6 gold
    4 luxuries: 22 GPT and 12 gold
    5 luxuries: 22 GPT and 12 gold
    6 luxuries: 34 GPT and 1 gold

    Again, this code is clearly an improvement over the patch before the hotfix, as none of the deals I can get are outrageously good at this late stage in the game, but it's very much a bandaid with some rigid rules that the player has to work around in order to not waste gold. Instead of a more nuanced, granular system of evaluation, the AI seems to run on picking from pre-defined values with clear thresholds and limits that the player has to find via testing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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  18. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    So. Uh, anyone missing the civ selection dropdown from the Create Game menu?
     
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  19. oedali

    oedali Chieftain

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    Thanks for the analysis. It sounds like the exploit part is fixed, in other words you cannot get skyrocketing amounts of gpt from AI anymore, which was the biggest issue prior to hotfix.

    I would not call the current trade system "broken" but it is certainly "cumbersome" for the player, and "extremely cumbersome" if you are trying to min/max deals.

    Perhaps based on your findings, a few a good rules of thumb for trading in the current state could be:

    - Offer your strategic resources in batches of 10 (or 20?). If they decline or offer 1 gold, scale back the quantity manually (if you really care to make a deal with that AI)
    - Trade 1 lux resource at a time

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
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  20. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Chieftain

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    Works fine for me. Mod issue?
     

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