Anti-Steam Petition

[Harok]

/signed

 

[MaxCiv]

The minority are obviously the intelligent people.
Paying 3$ for a map, where 2 maps are just redone old maps, is just...and that's one of the most sold things.
Humanity will not survive. I'm sure.

It's just a matter of different points of view. For you is $3 a map, for me is $15 for X hours of entertainment where X has been, up until last night, in excess of 20 and counting.

When the next map pack will come out next fall, my $15 will be ready, and I'll keep enjoying MW2 in between Civ 5 sessions

Just because I think something is worth $15 for me and you don't, it doesn't make you any more or any less intelligent than me. If you truly think otherwise you are quite presumptuous.

 

[Shurdus]

Some people just love draconian DRM that tells them what they can and cannot do... There are much better ways they could have gone, that accomplishes the same thing, but they went down the road where Ubisoft is leading them.

Have you provided an example of a system that is better yet? I remember that you were asked to provide an example that was better. Also I cannot recall you ever defining what better meant to you in this case. Does better mean less intrusive for the gamer, or more secure for the developer, or something different? Also you imply that there is more than one solution that would have been better... I am interested.

I do not expect an answer really, but I wanted to point out that 'better' without backup and facts and figures is a hollow statement.

 

[tom2050]

I keep pointing it out.

Make Steam required to download game patches, but no requirement to play/install the game. No requirement to install Steam. This makes it so no internet is required to play. Works perfect for the majority. And Steam stays for those who love it, and those who don't can actually decide for themselves if they wish to patch the bugs or not.

Stardock impulse (Gal Civ 2 e.g.) did this; don't know if they still do or not. According to them, it worked great. It was a real selling point, there was mostly 95% praise (well, don't know how much, but most agreed with this approach that I could see on the forums) from the forum boards over there at the time of Gal Civ 2 release (well, when I bought the game via digital download).

 

[snowlyon]

Even if you don't personally care about mods and multiplayer, they are still desired by the majority.

This quote CLEARLY states that the majority desire these options. Desires = Wants
I asked for you to prove this and provide such link…you basically refuse and continue to dance and avoid. This basically means your wrong and you know it.

I am claiming that the majority of players are going to buy the game when it is powered by Steamworks.

If this is what you meant then you didnt exactly make that clear…in context or not. Given the original quote you placed out there it surely was not. You made the statement regarding what the majority of players desire. That I, and others, actually responded to the claims you yourself made are to be expected.

Regarding reading comprehension and all the other lil barbs you so happily included in your post, please refrain from such actions in the future, especially when they are unwarrented.

The issue for me, in regards to what this whole thread about, is the exclusive use of Steam. I don't want it and I don't think it would have been so hard to provide an "opt out" option for it. That it is in place is a given…I know this, but still doesn’t mean I can't dislike the choice in direction they made and choose to voice my opinion as such.~

 

[tom2050]

People don't buy games because they use Steam, people buy games because they are games they want to play. Steam is like cigarettes, some people get addicted and some people try to stay away. It's a bad habit and can cause cancer.

 

[Shurdus]

I keep pointing it out.

Make Steam required to download game patches, but no requirement to play/install the game. No requirement to install Steam. This makes it so no internet is required to play. Works perfect for the majority. And Steam stays for those who love it, and those who don't can actually decide for themselves if they wish to patch the bugs or not.

Stardock impulse (Gal Civ 2 e.g.) did this; don't know if they still do or not. According to them, it worked great. It was a real selling point, there was mostly 95% praise (well, don't know how much, but most agreed with this approach that I could see on the forums) from the forum boards over there at the time of Gal Civ 2 release (well, when I bought the game via digital download).

Yes this is indeed what you stated. Sorry it slipped my mind.

This method is however foregoing the fact that steam will be used to limit the users that pirate the game. Steam may be a platform that provides patches and such, but it has other uses too. Your method - and Stardock's method - completely foregoes the fact that some developers prefer to play it safe, even if Stardock does not.

On a side-note, Stardock writes software that is included in Windows and other software, and Stardock is not a gaming studio per se. As such they have such a source of income that they are not dependent on the income of their games in order to survive. Stardock can afford to be lenient with their DRM policy, some other companies may not have this luxury.

Your method is good for the consumer and not for the developer per se. We have no clue how Firaxis is doing financially, but the method you describe may not even be an option for Firaxis. It is nice and all to come up with a solution from your comfortable chair, but I think Firaxis had more than just the consumers interests in mind when making the call. They had to think of themselves too, on the benefits and downsides of choosing steam, and they thought steam the best option.

With this in mind, please defend that your system is better. I can see why a consumer is benefited by your solution, but then you forego the developer's needs completely. This is unacceptable unless you are willing to redefine what is 'better' to you. There are more sides to the story and you seem blind to all but your side.

EDIT: did you just compare steam to cancer? Dude... Not cool.

 

[arstal]

I keep pointing it out.

Make Steam required to download game patches, but no requirement to play/install the game. No requirement to install Steam. This makes it so no internet is required to play. Works perfect for the majority. And Steam stays for those who love it, and those who don't can actually decide for themselves if they wish to patch the bugs or not.

Stardock impulse (Gal Civ 2 e.g.) did this; don't know if they still do or not. According to them, it worked great. It was a real selling point, there was mostly 95% praise (well, don't know how much, but most agreed with this approach that I could see on the forums) from the forum boards over there at the time of Gal Civ 2 release (well, when I bought the game via digital download).

They still do things this way, though you can use the client. It's your choice. Elemental will have more community features, but they won't be required. I do know Stardock has some things in the woodwork, but that none of them will be forced on anyone, unlike Steam.

Steam won't do that because the end goal of Steam is to turn PC gaming into a closed platform like the consoles.

 

[Shurdus]

They still do things this way, though you can use the client. It's your choice. Elemental will have more community features, but they won't be required. I do know Stardock has some things in the woodwork, but that none of them will be forced on anyone, unlike Steam.

Steam won't do that because the end goal of Steam is to turn PC gaming into a closed platform like the consoles.

How would you know which title has the most community features? Do you have a complete list of the features both titles will sport? Care to share?

Also even if Elemental has the best features Civ will still have the best modding support. Civ has epic modding support, most titles that Stardock is involved in can only dream of such support.

 

[scrlk]

Any of you used Steam for a game before?

If you haven't tried it yet, I don't think you have a right to complain.

 

[Shurdus]

Any of you used Steam for a game before?

If you haven't tried it yet, I don't think you have a right to complain.

That is some unfortunate phrasing right there.

I agree though that people should not complain because steam is solid.

 

[tom2050]

Steam does not prevent piracy any better than Impulse does. Requiring a user to login initially does the same thing as requiring a user to log in to get an update.

The only single difference is that Steam requires you to use the internet to play the game and Impulse did not.

How is Impulse bad for the company? I have looked up Stardock's history when I played Gal Civ 2 all the time, and they have almost gone out of business in the past. They are doing so because they actually do care about their consumers... In fact, the developers visit the forums and interact with the users on a regular basis. This improves relations and consumer confidence in their product.

Now compare that to how Bethesda does consumers with PS3/Xbox Fallout 3 for instance, they don't care about the bugged game, they don't care about consumers.

Firaxis I believes cares, but they are taking the route of the majority by requiring things like internet required to play. Now what if you had to have a constant internet connection?

Internet should only be required for an offline gameplay if you want to download a patch. It just makes sense. They are going the Ubisoft route, and Ubisoft DRM is like cancer to your computer. Steam though, is pretty much like Impulse, so I have no complaints with it really... my complaint is the direction they are taking, hopefully they don't go too far with it.

 

[Kosmopolit]

/sign

Fu ck STEAM, Fu ck all privacy abusers!

Moderator Action: infraction for useing foul language

 

[scrlk]

Steam does not prevent piracy any better than Impulse does. Requiring a user to login initially does the same thing as requiring a user to log in to get an update.

The only single difference is that Steam requires you to use the internet to play the game and Impulse did not.

How is Impulse bad for the company? I have looked up Stardock's history when I played Gal Civ 2 all the time, and they have almost gone out of business in the past. They are doing so because they actually do care about their consumers... In fact, the developers visit the forums and interact with the users on a regular basis. This improves relations and consumer confidence in their product.

Now compare that to how Bethesda does consumers with PS3/Xbox Fallout 3 for instance, they don't care about the bugged game, they don't care about consumers.

Firaxis I believes cares, but they are taking the route of the majority by requiring things like internet required to play. Now what if you had to have a constant internet connection?

Internet should only be required for an offline gameplay if you want to download a patch. It just makes sense. They are going the Ubisoft route, and Ubisoft DRM is like cancer to your computer.

I'd rather have Steam that something that loads my computer with something it doesn't tell me (breaking virtual optical drives anyone?)

 

[arstal]

Any of you used Steam for a game before?

If you haven't tried it yet, I don't think you have a right to complain.

Yes.

That's why I'm complaining. The DRM Steam uses has no place in a single-player game. For MP-dominant games such as Valve games, it's ok, but not for SP. I've also had several annoyances with Steam, and I'd rather just not deal with 3rd-party DRM that runs every time I run the game.

Also , I do have concerns about a DD monopoly and the long-term effects it could have on PC gaming in general. While I don't boycott Steam, I won't buy a game that is exclusive to Steam.

None of the angry people here have anything against there being a Steam version. Most of us know it's good for business. However, making it Steam exclusive (which it effectively is)- is not good for business, you lose out on sales, and it's not as user friendly as other DD programs such as Impulse/Gamersgate.

 

[Kosmopolit]

Besides that u r spied out of course.
STEAM means raping ur privacy and the Copyrightprotection just dont work. I get all STEAM-games cracked online.

So STEAM is bs.

 

[scrlk]

Yes.

That's why I'm complaining. The DRM Steam uses has no place in a single-player game. For MP-dominant games such as Valve games, it's ok, but not for SP. I've also had several annoyances with Steam, and I'd rather just not deal with 3rd-party DRM that runs every time I run the game.

Also , I do have concerns about a DD monopoly and the long-term effects it could have on PC gaming in general. While I don't boycott Steam, I won't buy a game that is exclusive to Steam.

None of the angry people here have anything against there being a Steam version. Most of us know it's good for business. However, making it Steam exclusive (which it effectively is)- is not good for business, you lose out on sales, and it's not as user friendly as other DD programs such as Impulse/Gamersgate.

Half-Life series?

What were your annoyances?

 

[Chalks]

Half-Life series?

What were your annoyances?

Dude, attempting to talk to these people on reasonable terms is even less fun than it looks. Good luck.

 

[MaxCiv]

/sign

Fu ck STEAM, Fu ck all privacy abusers!

So much anger. Buddah said "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned".

Besides that u r spied out of course.
STEAM means raping ur privacy and the Copyrightprotection just dont work. I get all STEAM-games cracked online.

So STEAM is bs.

Beware of the Steam ninjas! Once you log in to Steam they know where you are and they will come for you. I hear they are undetectable even when you wear a tinfoil hat.

 

[Kosmopolit]

So much anger. Buddah said "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned".



Beware of the Steam ninjas! Once you log in to Steam they know where you are and they will come for you. I hear they are undetectable even when you wear a tinfoil hat.

Beware of morale-abusers.
They come with a smile on their face. pretending friendly intention: BUT THEY ONLY SMILE BECAUSE THEY CANT WAIT TO BURN DOWN UR HOUSE! (free portation of Max Frisch "Biedermann und die Brandstifter")

Goddam capitalist slave.