The nazis had communist groups fighting against them, often very openly and with people killed on either side.
It sort of helped the nazi party rise to power, cause it argued it would keep the communists in check.
Antifa: There are Monsters Everywhere!!!!
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The nazis had communist groups fighting against them, often very openly and with people killed on either side.
It sort of helped the nazi party rise to power, cause it argued it would keep the communists in check.
Estebonrober
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Only in one city did that actually have anyone that affiliated as antifa as far as I am aware and it is a city that needs antifa. The cops there are literally in league with the nazi types. So I am going to disagree with you vehemently. You saw months of riots (much of this was overblown and literally started by police (a common tactic btw)), because we've spent decades asking for reform only to be ignored repeatedly. If politically motivated violence is terrorism then all violence (almost) is terrorism. I'd argue murdering your boss is politics.
Finally its not these small scale riots growing the ranks of nazi like militias in the country side, its the fear mongering machine that you guys all listen to that have you believing there are monsters jsut under your stairs. Monsters named antifa and BLM! Jfc listen to yourself. You fear a group whose entire premise for existence is to fight against nazis and another group whose entire premise is that black people should have the same rights and justice as white people. If those are your monsters, then who is the real monster?
Estebonrober
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yea the elites didn't want to lose any of their power so they joined the nightmare side to squash the working class. This is not a good argument against antifa. It's basically saying "sit down and shut up or else!".
Estebonrober
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Nazis never even won 30% of the Reichstag or whatever, this is a lie.
Estebonrober
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This is overblown bullfeathers propagated by a media narrative intentionally used by the right wing to drive fear. It does not matter what they do they will drive this fear up its the only way to control their base. "Biden is a socialist in league with Satan".
I was objecting to your claim about playing the neo-Nazis' "game", this is you moving the goalposts to another hypothetical slippery-slope of something that might happen.
It's not a far-fetched slippery slope, though. Eg examine how the "put a check on the police" originally had momentum (even the likes of right or far rifht fox news were behind it at first), and how it lost all ability to be implemented when it got (foolishly) presented in absolute or near absolute tautology with more general and lingering issues of racism.
Of course when it got presented as tied to antifa as well... you could tell how things would go.
A large part of society is (for better or worse) not accepting of either extreme. And while far-right extreme typically is more violent and dangerous, it won't matter when the reason of non-acceptance is not degree of violence, but existence of violence.
Of course when it got presented as tied to antifa as well... you could tell how things would go.
A large part of society is (for better or worse) not accepting of either extreme. And while far-right extreme typically is more violent and dangerous, it won't matter when the reason of non-acceptance is not degree of violence, but existence of violence.
It's absolutely far-fetched, what he's saying, because the entire context is fundamentally different in ways I can't even describe. This isn't the 30s. We're not inbetween two World Wars. We have the Internet. The far and alt-right crowds are massively active online (and on the streets). There are so many factors to consider that going "but what happened last time" is such a shallow, reductive attempt at a gotcha that that's probably what is more galling (rather than the rather boring moving of the goalposts, which I'm used to these days).
Violence exists. It is a privilege (yes, that dreaded word) to not have to deal with it. For example, I don't have to. I don't have to deal with the threat of it. I have done. Not life-and-death, of course, but in the past I've lived with the active fear of it, and without much option in terms of protecting myself. But it is a mark of privilege that I do not have to anymore (differences in where I live, and so on - completely ignoring my own personal growth. I cannot fight a gang, regardless of how old or strong I am).
A lot of the people here debate from the perspective that such violence doesn't exist, or is exaggerated, or the like. This is flawed. You are not putting yourself in the shoes of the people who are targeted by these extremists. You should, if we want to discuss possible futures. Because another one is "people continue to get beaten to death in a first-world developed country by fascist militia while everybody pontificates online if it's okay to punch the fascist militia back". And yes, various groups definitely count as militia. Nevermind the ongoing links between these groups and US (other other countries') police forces, which is a structural problem. It's very neat and tidy to claim violence doesn't help. And it doesn't necessarily. But that doesn't mean it doesn't ever, and you cannot be the person who decides when it is or isn't. You're too far removed from it. Zard is. Even I am, outside of the people I know and the areas I know they live in.
We hope.
No, it didn't.
The Nazis and Italian Fascists both came to power by making a deal with conservatives, not by winning a majority of seats in elections.
In FPTP, if you are just the party with most mps, you win
(at worst with the help of the unionist party)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_1932_German_federal_election
It's just that the system wasn't FPTP in 1932 Germany. Hitler still got the most (230 out of 608) parliament seats.
I guess you could say, his party had many seats. But the german people voted for them.
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Warned for trolling and ignoring mod text
Guess what day it is? That's right, it's Day #3!
Shooting in Seattle protest zone leaves one dead. Police say 'violent crowd' denied them entry
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/20/us/seattle-capitol-hill-chop-chaz-shooting/index.html
The truly ironic part - They were able to save everyone from da ebil NATZEEEs but were unable to save themselves. Sad! Many such cases.
Shooting in Seattle protest zone leaves one dead. Police say 'violent crowd' denied them entry
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/20/us/seattle-capitol-hill-chop-chaz-shooting/index.html
The truly ironic part - They were able to save everyone from da ebil NATZEEEs but were unable to save themselves. Sad! Many such cases.
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So you're two out of three for having no decsription of the word "antifa" anywhere in the source. Nice. Great detective work
Senethro
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Let it be written on his tombstone that he was mad.
thecrazyscot
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Oh I found a picture of him:
In FPTP, if you are just the party with most mps, you win
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_1932_German_federal_election
It's just that the system wasn't FPTP in 1932 Germany. Hitler still got the most (230 out of 608) parliament seats.
I guess you could say, his party had many seats. But the german people voted for them.
No, in FPTP to form a government you still need a majority of seats.
If Germany had FPTP in 1932 it would probably still have had to rely on conservatives choosing to cooperate with it rather than centrist or moderate left parties.
Most German people did not vote for him in 1932.
No need to be german-apologetic
Fact is, they voted for H1tler. Maybe they will repeat that in the future, who knows ^_^*
At any rate the point of this part of the discussion was to show that the fear of violent "leftists" did play a role (in many ways, usually but not always including false-flags).
*as a recent german movie about Hitler returning has him say: "The people like what I say; they just don't like the name Hitler".
No need to be german-apologetic
Fact is, they voted for H1tler. Maybe they will repeat that in the future, who knows ^_^*
At any rate the point of this part of the discussion was to show that the fear of violent "leftists" did play a role (in many ways, usually but not always including false-flags).
*as a recent german movie about Hitler returning has him say: "The people like what I say; they just don't like the name Hitler".
No need to be inaccurate.
In 1932 most Germans did not vote for Hitler.
Please don't let current political prejudices re Germany and the EU distort your view of history.
Estebonrober
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So you're two out of three for having no decsription of the word "antifa" anywhere in the source. Nice. Great detective work
Yea two out of three and I'm already noticing a trend. If this does not prove the point of the thread I'm not sure what else could demonstrate it better. They literally create boogeymen to rile up their base and it works. It works so well they've completely lost touch with reality. The shootings in the autonomous zone were gang related and stupid on every level and though I'd agree an autonomous zone without any law enforcement is a bad idea, that does not disqualify the point that police reform of a dramatic nature is way overdue in America.
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