Antifa: There are Monsters Everywhere!!!!

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This aint a lie, if I was at Charlottesville attacking protesters and people died I would blame myself and it wouldn't matter what 'side' I was on.
 
yung.carl.jung said:
It's not so much that most communists were hardcore Stalinists and decided to follow every order of his, it was rather the case that the KPD was successfully infiltrated in an admittedly impressive way. You can fault the people for being gullible and not resisting, sure, but it seems much more sensible to me to fault Stalin and the Sowjet Union for this specific incident.

Leftist infighting is obviously a huge problem, but it wasn't always self-inflicted or mere pettiness, more often than not it was a concentrated political effort.

I'm not so sure the ComIntern was actually surprised, I sure as hell know the Soviets weren't. I think it's much more likely that this outcome was intended.

In the end what we saw happening with the KPD in the 30s is very much like what happened to Socialists, Communists and Anarchists during Republican Spain. There was a concentrated effort from Stalin's side to meddle, sew chaos and destroy any meaningful political action. We can speculate about Stalin's motives forever, I personally don't know enough to make a definitie statement, but it seems to me a matter of fact that the Sowjet Union put an insane amount of ressources into bringing down actual grassroots communist movements.
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Stalin's self-aggrandizement and intolerance of power sharing is enough for motives. Why it led him into sowing chaos rather than any more effective means of spreading influence... we can easily settle in that the guy was not any kind of genius and lacked strategic vision on the international scene. Gave up on world revolution, but then instead of going isolationist like his position argued decided to sabotage others that might do it. Bidding the time, relying on Europe remaining divided, but blind to the possibility of something like nazi Germany rising to a position where it could trounce the USSR. No wonder he for a brief time feared getting overthrown and executed when the germans finally attacked successfully, his entire foreign policy was a wreck and did lead up to that scenario happening. Unlike many other european political leaders who came and went and had to do policy with what they were handed, he was very much the responsible for the long-term strategy of a major power and the disastrous results. Failing to understand the threat the nazis would pose, failing to adequately prepare for the war even when late in the gate he did undertook and gained some time and had observed the fall of France already. Stalin was one of those who could have some smart big ideas but then screwed up terribly in the implementation. Smartness but no subtlety, and no skill in using methods other than brute force.

There's this idea of the soviets being good at running foreign agents but I think that the soviets having so much influence in the years between the wars among left political parties in Europe was despite Stalin, not due to stalinists. The USSR's was the only socialist game in town and benefited from playing the older brother role for those parties looking for a country that had had moved away from capitalism. The soviets were not good at espionage, or at using their influence outside their borders. They were really crappy about it. They just had the good luck of keep having people looking up to them - and then wasted that good luck tine and again.

All of this is old and dead history of course. But there is one point to take from it. That people are not so easy to herd and manage on behalf of any one group of state. Social movements tend to be local and are not that easily manipulated by other governments I think. It may look like some countries have extensive influence networks but exaggerating that impression is part of the propaganda of those countries to induce other governments to do them favours.

The "monsters" (as in the people described as radicals anywhere) may coordinate internationally, seek support outside, and often do, but they are essentially local.
 
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Berzerker said:
This aint a lie, if I was at Charlottesville attacking protesters and people died I would blame myself and it wouldn't matter what 'side' I was on.
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No, you're a liar and a KKK apologist, so of course you have to invent absurd hypotheticals to justify your lies. Sad! You hate to see it. :lol:

Moderator Action: This is trolling and oddly enough, it is against the rules. Enjoy a thread ban, on me. --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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Berzerker said:
When have I defended their ideology?
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Your constant defending of the GOP is enough to functionally help them and their ideology.

This is the bed you've made, now lie in it.

CaptainF said:
No, you're a liar and a KKK apologist, so of course you have to invent absurd hypotheticals to justify your lies. Sad! You hate to see it. :lol:
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Don't forget this dude's been defending trump with every breath he takes
 
CaptainF said:
I dunno, every time the subject of Charlottesville comes up? Yeah, sounds about right. :lol:
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Charlottesville was brought up in this thread, where did I defend their ideology?

Cloud_Strife said:
Your constant defending of the GOP is enough to functionally help them and their ideology.

This is the bed you've made, now lie in it.

Don't forget this dude's been defending trump with every breath he takes
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Where did I defend the GOP?
 
More disengenuous gaslighting from a dude whose entire raison d'etre is to distract, deflect and downplay republican problems.

I invite any and everyone to look through the body of @Berzerker posts and tell me that this guy doesn't have a consistant and measurable pattern of defending the gop and trump.
 
Berzerker said:
This aint a lie, if I was at Charlottesville attacking protesters and people died I would blame myself and it wouldn't matter what 'side' I was on.
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Would you apply the same logic to the 60's civil rights protests?
 
Moderator Action: Kindly stick to the topic at hand and stop baiting other posters, please.
 
I think it doesn't help that Fox and the Gop brand everyone who is left of Thatcher a "communist". If Bernie is a communist (I am leaving aside the ludicrous and dangerous claim that Biden is a communist/socialist) then there's not much room for Antifa being to the right of Baader-Meinhof.

Besides, usually such popular movements are anything but homogeneous (what a terrible spelling...).
 
Kyriakos said:
I think it doesn't help that Fox and the Gop brand everyone who is left of Thatcher a "communist". If Bernie is a communist (I am leaving aside the ludicrous and dangerous claim that Biden is a communist/socialist) then there's not much room for Antifa being to the right of Baader-Meinhof.

Besides, usually such popular movements are anything but homogeneous (what a terrible spelling...).
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Yes, even the tea party thing seems to have gone out of control by the sponsors.
 
Samson said:
Would you apply the same logic to the 60's civil rights protests?
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Of course... If I attended any protest to attack people for speaking and people died in the ensuing melee I'd be responsible even if I didn't kill anyone. Obviously the killers would be more guilty but I aint walking away with a clean conscience.
 
Antifa is bad . There was no Antifa in Poland untill BLM , which means - payed f***s ! seeing to soil this land ! ... just sain' :p Anarchy wins without You paid trolls !
 
Only true Polish son of Son of Anarchy will understand ..... we don't accept petty impostors !

 
Yes I've wrote "son of son" ! :lol:
 
"Truth is we don't give a fudge" - I wish my guitar skills were enough to make a song like that just happen :)



Oh yeah the writing on the wall says : fudge ANTIFA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Estebonrober said:
I challenge anyone on this forum to show me any evidence of antifa or communists or social democrats or anyone left of center for that matter systematically shutting down free speech in the last what? ten years?
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Human Rights Watch condemns Maduro's suppression of speech and assembly.
Amnesty International's thoughts on Cuban free speech.
The People's Republic of China has long "systematically shut down free speech."
etc.

Of course this does not meant the left side of the political spectrum is inherently opposed to free speech. Nor does the egregious behavior of these state actors necessarily reflect upon left-wing demonstrators in Western nations. Rather, this reflects that some leftist actors are willing to limit free speech to serve their own interests. As are some right-wing actors.

Stances on free speech are oft determined based upon the relative power of actors rather than their overall political positions. Those sitting outside the halls of power invariably want more freedom of speech, and those who are in power are much more likely to mortgage freedom of speech. A right/left dichotomy as applied to free speech is a gross simplification.
 
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